The MLB lockout thread
 

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To our Fans:

I first want to thank you for your continued support of the great game of baseball. This past season, we were reminded of how the national pastime can bring us together and restore our hope despite the difficult challenges of a global pandemic. As we began to emerge from one of the darkest periods in our history, our ballparks were filled with fans; the games were filled with excitement; and millions of families felt the joy of watching baseball together.

That is why I am so disappointed about the situation in which our game finds itself today. Despite the league’s best efforts to make a deal with the Players Association, we were unable to extend our 26 year-long history of labor peace and come to an agreement with the MLBPA before the current CBA expired. Therefore, we have been forced to commence a lockout of Major League players, effective at 12:01am ET on December 2.

I want to explain to you how we got here and why we have to take this action today. Simply put, we believe that an offseason lockout is the best mechanism to protect the 2022 season. We hope that the lockout will jumpstart the negotiations and get us to an agreement that will allow the season to start on time. This defensive lockout was necessary because the Players Association’s vision for Major League Baseball would threaten the ability of most teams to be competitive. It’s simply not a viable option. From the beginning, the MLBPA has been unwilling to move from their starting position, compromise, or collaborate on solutions.

When we began negotiations over a new agreement, the Players Association already had a contract that they wouldn’t trade for any other in sports. Baseball’s players have no salary cap and are not subjected to a maximum length or dollar amount on contracts. In fact, only MLB has guaranteed contracts that run 10 or more years, and in excess of $300 million. We have not proposed anything that would change these fundamentals. While we have heard repeatedly that free agency is “broken” – in the month of November $1.7 billion was committed to free agents, smashing the prior record by nearly 4x. By the end of the offseason, Clubs will have committed more money to players than in any offseason in MLB history.

We worked hard to find compromise while making the system even better for players, by addressing concerns raised by the Players Association. We offered to establish a minimum payroll for all clubs to meet for the first time in baseball history; to allow the majority of players to reach free agency earlier through an age-based system that would eliminate any claims of service time manipulation; and to increase compensation for all young players, including increases in the minimum salary. When negotiations lacked momentum, we tried to create some by offering to accept the universal Designated Hitter, to create a new draft system using a lottery similar to other leagues, and to increase the Competitive Balance Tax threshold that affects only a small number of teams.

We have had challenges before with respect to making labor agreements and have overcome those challenges every single time during my tenure. Regrettably, it appears the Players Association came to the bargaining table with a strategy of confrontation over compromise. They never wavered from collectively the most extreme set of proposals in their history, including significant cuts to the revenue-sharing system, a weakening of the competitive balance tax, and shortening the period of time that players play for their teams. All of these changes would make our game less competitive, not more.

To be clear: this hard but important step does not necessarily mean games will be cancelled. In fact, we are taking this step now because it accelerates the urgency for an agreement with as much runway as possible to avoid doing damage to the 2022 season. Delaying this process further would only put Spring Training, Opening Day, and the rest of the season further at risk – and we cannot allow an expired agreement to again cause an in-season strike and a missed World Series, like we experienced in 1994. We all owe you, our fans, better than that.

Today is a difficult day for baseball, but as I have said all year, there is a path to a fair agreement, and we will find it. I do not doubt the League and the Players share a fundamental appreciation for this game and a commitment to its fans. I remain optimistic that both sides will seize the opportunity to work together to grow, protect, and strengthen the game we love. MLB is ready to work around the clock to meet that goal. I urge the Players Association to join us at the table.
Manfred

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Read a letter from the Commissioner: <a href="https://t.co/P4gRGSlfsu">https://t.co/P4gRGSlfsu</a> <a href="https://t.co/zI40uGLTni">pic.twitter.com/zI40uGLTni</a></p>&mdash; MLB (@MLB) <a href="https://twitter.com/MLB/status/1466274904433696775?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 2, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Statement from the Major League Baseball Players Association: <a href="https://t.co/34uIGf762W">pic.twitter.com/34uIGf762W</a></p>&mdash; MLBPA Communications (@MLBPA_News) <a href="https://twitter.com/MLBPA_News/status/1466275975474421761?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 2, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Careful baseball, it's hard enough to watch your games already with your stupid black-out rules

I haven't watched a baseball game since the Royals won the World Series.

tl;dr

What is the issue?

Money. It’s always about money.

oh no

anyway

Good. Keep it going for years if that's what it takes to fix baseball.

Dear MLB & MLB Players Association,

From a someone that has not watched a second of baseball since 1994 with the exception of the Royals' runs in 2014 & 2015 I say **** YOU ALL!

MLBPA ruined baseball.

The strike of 1994 nearly killed the game.

I already can’t watch the game I’d like, so what will they do? Withhold their product more?
Bold strategy Cotton, let’s see how it plays out.

Ask Max Sherzer

Gun to your head: must watch one. Golf, soccer, baseball.

soccer for sure. there's constant action and it's over in a set 90 minutes.

I know, I'm devastated. Anything else going on?

Well, the good news is that one of the worst commissioners in the history of sports will be managing this negotiation

When did Goodell take over?

I had it on mute but I saw what the differences were on ESPN. They really don’t look far apart. And it wasn’t about dollars. Why does this not get done?

Dumb ****s

I can't say that, but I haven't watched a single game this year due to the broadcast restrictions .

**** them. I remember how pissed I was in the 90s during the shutdown, now my give a shit meter is on empty.

Golf

I'm leaning towards the gun to the head.

Blackout rules make it hard to follow when you live 3 hours away and you are considered in a blackout area. If I could actually watch the games regularly, I may go to Kaufmann for 4-5 games a year instead of zero. The parity in the league is god awful with the large markets still having a huge advantage to start the year.

The players want more money. The owners want more money. They can't agree on how to divide a pie with many billions of dollars. So, they deprive us, the fans, of the game that we all loved. Furthermore, just as surely as I am typing this, the fans will be the ultimate losers in whatever final settlement there is. Prices will go up. Again. Some fans will be priced out of being able to attend games. The players win, the owners win, and the fans lose.

Unfortunately for them, they have forgotten one salient fact. It's neither the owners nor the players that really control the game. It is the fans that control the game. Major League Baseball does not get played without the support of the fans. Without the support of the fans, there is no money to be split. I didn't watch a single game of baseball all of last season until the World Series and I didn't miss it. Well, I did, but I got over it. It's time for all of us to turn our backs on Major League Baseball. Let it die. It will return eventually and it will be something far more reasonable. What we have now is not reasonable.

I used to be a fan, but I'm tired of seeing big market teams in the WS every yar. Sure enough, teams like the 2014-5 Royals strike gold every blue moon, but LA, Atlanta, and the Yankees seem to get more than their fair share due to their payrolls. Until MLB establishes revenue sharing and a salary cap, it's just going to continue. Couple that with the average KC fan not being able to see a single game of the Royals without going to the ballpark or paying an arm and a leg for cable extra chanels --I say screw that.

They should lockout for good

Would you believe if I told you that MLB has the most parity of any of the major sports? Certainly more than the NFL and NBA

No.

It wasn't until the McGuire/Sosa steroids fueled home run race to 62 home runs that it began to recover.

Baseball is failing on a national level. But, people still go to games in person and watch "their" team on TV. The local cable money saved baseball too.

Yes. Very little interest on a National level other than the hardcore fans.

But most sports are that way other than the NFL. Fans mostly care about their local regional team. If your local team is out of the race or bad, then Interest drops substantially.

Spin your numbers all you want, but teams are not on a level playing field, no where close. The next time the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox lose 100 games, let's talk...

Adam Silver is the worst commissioner and it's not even close

100 loses in baseball equals a 6-10 season in the NFL and a 100 win season in baseball equals a 10-6 season in the NFL.

Same (but for Colorado for me). I don't think it'll ever happen, but I'm surprised that the MLB thinks they make more money when it's dominated by big market teams all the time. I enjoy going to Rockies games, but it's sure hard to really get in to watching when they're constantly in the bottom.

I lost all interest in baseball in 1994 when they went on strike mid season when Griffey Jr was on a run and had a chance to break the home run record without needing steroids to do it.

I see it this way…if you can’t figure out the business side of how to split up billions of dollars fairly during the offseason, you deserve for your golden goose to die. You’re making a choice to punish the fans for your greed.

**** baseball and it’s greed.

I was prepared to do the same thing with football if they started missing regular season games during the last CBA negotiations, too.

Yes and in today's MLB, it is much much much harder for big market teams to lose 100 games with the economics involved. It's also much harder and rarely occurs for a 100 loss team to make the playoffs the next year.

Huge story, but I'm having a hard time caring.

Will care a bit if the lockout is ongoing in late February. Until then, who cares?

They'll figure it out.

Owners aren't looking for a hard cap and players aren't looking for a significant change in FA rules. So the two things that could implode the whole smash aren't even on the table.

Meanwhile there was enough of a warning period that most of the major FAs have already signed so winter meetings weren't even necessary.

Much ado about nothing.

Soccer is the best sport in the world. An american might think 'oh the ball went into the stands, that's a tv timeout and I'll have a chance to do tiktoks a bunch of times over. So this is fine.

But in soccer, the clock runs. It runs all the time. You dont get a tiktok time out. They grab the ball and the game continues. I absolutely love it. So do they.

I spent 2 months in England once. Ate more baked beans for breakfast than I ever would have expected.

They aren't into endless stoppages. Game will fail there. No englishman will accept 80% commercials during the "game". They laugh at us for that and they should

There will be games missed.

The owners basically proposed a de facto cap with proposing implement a floor and lowering the ceiling for when the luxury tax occurs.

I read they talked about raising the luxury tax ceiling but not by as much as the players preferred.

https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/08/18/ml...xury-tax-mlbpa

Nope.

And that's pretty much a salary cap.

That was back in August, though.

Their most recent proposal is different:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Some details: MLB offered to raise 1st luxury tax tier to $214m, peaking at $220m <br><br>MLBPA free agency proposal:<br>Year 1 of deal, no change, 6 years service to become FA<br>Years 2-3: 6 years—or if age 30 1/2 &amp; 5 years of service<br>Years 4-5: 6 years—or if age 29 1/2 &amp; 5 years service</p>&mdash; Evan Drellich (@EvanDrellich) <a href="https://twitter.com/EvanDrellich/status/1466169658625642498?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 1, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

They appear to have dropped the $180 million payroll minimum (though it seems odd that the MLBPA would have a problem with it; it's a re-allocation of money - that will end up being plowed into the floor and require those teams rolling $50 million payrolls to get more active in FA -- that should be HUGE for 'middle class' free agents).

Moreover, recent reports are that it's the arb and FA eligibility issues that are really the sticking points for the PA and MLB has come to them a little bit in some of those areas. Yes, they may have to come a little further, but it's not something I think the owners will dig their heels in on, especially if they can get the luxury tax stuff ironed out.

The lockout was designed to prevent what happened in 1994, when the players and owners sat on their asses too long and suddenly February was here and nobody had gotten serious. The lockout is an attempt to keep everyone at the table until a deal is done.

The owners aren't messing with guaranteed contracts or a hard cap - this will get resolved.

Golf. LPGA to be specific.

I anticipate the players to cave in at some point. They'll probably get some middle ground on arbitration/free agency, but not a lot.

This ain't pre-2000. There are about 100 activities you could be doing these days far better than watching a baseball game. The sport only shines in the post season.

Pretty much how I see it as well. This just more of a formality that will get taken care of.

Soccer!!

While I don’t agree it only shines in the postseason, I do agree there are far too many games.

Very low stakes some random game April to July.

Imagine having that many billion dollars and not being able to figure out a way to divide them.

Someone in politics should steal the speech writer from the Commish. The statement issued is actually pretty persuasive. The amount MLB players can get paid on a guaranteed level is kind of crazy when you think about it. Much better for the players than NFL contracts that have short guarantees...

This will get hammered out soon IMO. Too much $$$ involved for these MLB guys to forgo it. And the ones that aren't making big $$$ need that year of service time to keep going in order to get closer to the big payday.

The fact that the NFL Hall of Fame Game... a preseason game... gets comparable TV ratings to World Series games says everything about how irrelevant baseball has become.

Yea, like getting your 20th booster shot just like BB. LMAO

In all seriousness, with the positions many leagues have taken in pro sports I have watched zero baseball last year and zero basketball since Queen James went to the Lakers. I still watch my Chiefs every week along with pieces of a few other good games when I'm cooking. That's about it though.

As a Pirates fan, baseball is pretty much unwatchable. If they want to play dumb over billions of dollars, so be it. I will find other ways to use my time.

All parties are awful in this spat but the MLBPA is easily the worst union in sports. They don't understand the concept of compromise.

When was the last time anyone here watched a regular season baseball game from start to finish on TV?

It's completely unwatchable for a variety of reasons.

Tons of people on this board watch the Royals pretty much every day. I'd assume that's true of the Cardinals as well. WTF are you talking about?

That’s a super small minority of people that watch regular season baseball games on TV.

WTF are YOU talking about with “tons of people”?

Matlock reruns get higher TV ratings than regular season baseball games.

Baseball players were exploited for a long time.

The reason there is more disparity in MLB has more to do with the wealthier teams wanting to have an advantage over the less wealthy teams.

David Glass and a couple other owners had a much harder job getting other owners to compromise on competitive balance measures than they did getting MLBPA to agree to things that would aid competitive balance.

MLBPA is not the only entity opposed to a hard cap. Look how much money the Dodgers spend to make the playoffs every year and win 1 World Series.

I watch about 150 a year

The royals average about 40k a night. Without looking it up, I'd almost guarantee you Matlock doesn't average 40k a night in KC
Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

Baseball is the highest rated tv primetime program in the local markets.

This 100%. Big market pundits all over twitter right now want to shit in our mouths and call it a sundae. Small market fans should shut up and be happy for whatever scraps the big markets give us.

If George Brett was a Royal today we'd never be able to keep him past his rookie deal. If the NFL was run like MLB, the Chiefs would never be able to keep Mahomes. It absolutely sucks for the fans when this happens, and would seriously drop interest in the NFL in smaller markets.

Baseball needs more revenue sharing, a cap, and the floor that goes along with it to keep cheap owners like David Glass, and Nutting in Pittsburgh from gaming the system.

That’s factually incorrect… not even close.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ld-series.html

Parity if you look at the World Series winners only - because the playoffs are a crap shoot and small market teams have gotten lucky.

Look at who makes the playoffs every year. Dodgers, Yanks and Red Sox basically guaranteed.

Great. The one thing that would make the league undoubtedly better for small market fans, neither the players nor the owners want.

No team would benefit more from a salary floor than the Pirates.

A bunch of shitty players getting big contracts just to fill salary cap isn't great either.

And fast forward to 2021…

MLB Seeing Local TV Households Decline Dramatically Compared With Last Full Season

Ummm.......I love soccer, but no.

Flops that make vlade divac look like Shaq, shady refs, arbitrary fouls/cards.....only one person in the stadium knows when the game will end........

Soccer is great.....but it's not the best.

The salary cap/floor works fine in the NFL. Let's go with that.

You mean the NFL where only 6 franchises have made the Super Bowl from the AFC since 2003?

In his defense, I make it a point to watch a Chiefs game.

I watch the Cardinals while I'm doing other things. I don't sit down for first pitch and watch all 9 innings. And there aren't a hell of a of baseball fans more attuned to the game than I am.

But to me, that's part of the charm. 162 games with no clock and a leisurely pace. It isn't appointment television and doesn't need to be. It's filler - empty calories. If football is essentially raw protein, baseball is my loaded baked potato.

And I'm just fine with that. I don't need Michael Bay to be the next commissioner in order to enjoy the sport for what it is (and what it is not).

Bob Nutting is the worst owner in sports.

I could be wrong but I think that has mostly to do with the TV deal. Bally sports isn’t on any TV or streaming services hardly at all so this numbers are down. I would watch the royals every night before but couldn’t this year and I know many other teams have the same contract with Bally Sports. The Royals even in the bad years were smashing TV viewing in the area.

Edit - it mentions Bally but from what I’ve seen online that’s the biggest compliant from fans.

:rolleyes: Soccer doesn't come close, nor does any other sport, to American Football in entertainment value.

You surely aren't equating this to baseball. The New England Patriots are the only reason that is skewed, they traded star players and draft picks for more draft picks and fit inside a salary cap each year, which is the opposite of big market dominant teams in the MLB. As much as I love the Chiefs and hate the Pats, this defied all odds and will likely never come close to repeating due to the structure of the league.

A lot of that is the product of poor management or teams having an elite QB. It is not because some teams have a financial advantage over others.

I think both a cap and a floor are great ideas. I am not sure if it's being discussed or not, but the MLBPA should be fighting for better pay for minor league players.

Here's an AP Article outlining the respective positions of the parties on the main issues:

https://apnews.com/article/mlb-sport...e134f034bd2d5b

This is going to get done. There are hree where there's any meaningful divide:

These two would likely be taken out a single shot - i.e. significantly expanding what qualifies as an season of service time for arbitration purposes. I think it presently requires 172 days on the roster (season is 187 days long). Make that 120 days with a maximium amount of years earned in a single season being 1 (so someone can't earn 4 seasons in 3, for instance). It would do a lot to prevent service time manipulation. Make it 90 if need be; that would require teams to wait until the ASB essentially to call up guys and that's a big ask if a player is truly ready to play. Most teams wouldn't do it.

Get guys to arb more frequently and easier and the players won't dig their heels in on the compensation once they get there.

I don't expect there's universal agreement on the salary floor but in the end, if the owners have to scrap the floor and eliminate the non-tax penalties (which are just used to fund the revenue sharing FOR the floor) and give a little bit on the starting luxury tax threshold, they'll do that. Enough wealthy teams would be fine with an increase and enough cheap teams will be fine not having to navigate a floor.

And again, this is posturing by PA, IMO - they'd ultimately be fine with that non-tax penalty being put in if it just creates a pool for the 'poorer' teams to spend from. Sooner or later the middle class of MLB FAs is going to get squeezed out and a situation like this will help them get paid. This would help more players than eliminating it would, even if the alternative would help the high end of the market get paid more. At some point the PA will understand this.

There is way more parity in baseball than the NFL and NBA. NFL the teams with the superstar QBs win. NBA the superstar player wins. It pretty much proves out. The only dynasty in baseball has been San Francisco ****ing Giants in the last 20 years.

Most teams at the bottom are ran piss poor and do shitty drafting. Most big free agency signings are just so fans and agents can get hand jobs and feel good. They generally back fire on the teams.