The first offseason domino to fall...
 

In 2 weeks, give or take, we will know of the first offseason question to be answered.

February 22nd to March 8th marks the period in which teams can use the franchise tag.

We'll know what they intend to do with Orlando Brown, at least for 2022 and possibly beyond.

You've got a 25 year old LT who's shown to be really good. I dont' see how you don't sign him to a long term deal and forget about the position for 4/5 years.

The franchise tag allows them to negotiate with Brown until like July. So using the tag doesn't preclude signing him long term, it actually gives them more time to get it done while giving them some cap certainty and allowing them to be more active in FA.

The problem is if you tag him you have to allocate that money then. Which woudl be a chunk. If you do a deal you can spread it out.

True but that means that a deal has to come together pretty quickly. I think it's all going to depend on how much money they have going into the FA period.

Yes, that's true. It's also true that you know EXACTLY how much he's going to count against the cap BEFORE the start of free agency, which allows them the ability to work around it.

And if they sign him before the summer, that cap hit goes away in favor of whatever his new deal costs.

Tagging Brown would suck. Long term deal is best but he will want a lot and what really sucks is he's no where near a great LT but we gave up a 1 for him unfortunately so letting him walk is idiotic.

He has the power and we don't. Veach needs to stop giving away 1's for players anyway and certainly not for players that don't have deals.

And on the topic of Orlando Brown Jr.

I know the Ravens weren't going to give up on Stanley but holy shit did they make the wrong move. I saw a report that Stanley might not even play football next season.

I was curious about what that amount would be and last year for a LT it was just under $14 mil for Cam Robinson.

Who would you have spent our #1 on then that was equivalent to Brown? As we wouldn't have gotten a 2nd back who would you have sacrificed between Bolton and Humphrey as we would not have gotten both?

This is key.

We spent the offseason examining potential left tackle solutions, particularly in the draft, under an electron microscope.

Of all the guys we evaluated, virtually none of them emerged as a starting LT prospect. Several of them played RT and some of them even got moved to guard. The rest weren't all that effective.

It's Red Dawg. It's pointless to debate with him because he doesn't know shit. He just likes to bitch.

Why? Who else is worth using the tag on?

I presume he's talking about the fact that a tag would mean all that money THIS season, while in a long term deal you could spread out the hit and possibly negotiate a back loaded contract.

A tag MAY be prohibitive to signing a guy like Allen Robinson etc.

Yup. And the ones we would have wanted were gone well before we picked. Elite to above average LTs do not grow on trees. They typically get drafted very high and teams don't typically part with established ones. We were very fortunate that Baltimore had Stanley or else there would have been zero chance they part with Brown.

You would think that but not really. Veach can easily go into the start of FA with enough money to do both.

IF they can't use the tag to get a deal done. There's plenty of precedent, even on the Chiefs, of using the tag and getting a deal done after the draft.

And knowing EXACTLY how much of the cap Brown is using up.

Yep, and he'll be able to adjust from that number depending on what they want to do.

We gave up the equivalance of a 2 for him. If we just flat out lose him in FA, we'll get a 3 as comp. Not great but I don't think we're necessarily forced into making a move if we don't want to.

I still don't see him as a great LT. He's still much more an RT in my mind. He's good and I wouldn't be upset if we re-signed him. I do agree that he's not worth what he wants.

It's going to be more difficult for Orlando to get what he wants due to the raw fact that Chiefs didn't make the SB

I'm not sure why anyone even replies to that dumb shit Red Dawg. He's reeruned and just wants to bitch. He's be ER gonna change his mind. It'd be nice if people stopped quoting and responding to.him.

Players get paid what they want when they are shit teams all the time. This is just another stupid post by a stupid poster.

Is he worth $16.5M? That's the projected tag number for 2022: https://www.spotrac.com/spots/projec...g-values-1349/

Yep, he's worth that. Especially if they can use the extra 4 months or so to hammer out a long-term deal, which will come at a much higher total cost but less cap hit in the beginning.

He's likely to get $20M+ as a free agent. His current projected market value is about $22M per.

I dont know what everyone see in him. I saw him constantly getting beat by speed rushers, and in my opinion isn't even close to as good overall as Fish. But I also don't focus on the LT when I watch as much as some of you do so my opinion could be flawed and I'd love to have my mind changed about him.

Worst case, the tag buys you another year to see if you REALLY want to sign him. If he costs more next year, it's because he's worth it. Not a fan of just giving out a mega contract until we know that he's truly the long-term solution. I'd like to see if he improves in pass blocking with another off-season in our program.

I would consider putting the tag on him that will allow him to negotiate with other teams. When we picked up both Brown and Thuney, our offensive line was in shambles.

Since then, we have hit two home runs on the offensive line in Humphrey and Smith.

The game at Cincinnati with Thuney at LT and Allegretti at LG was not awful. Remmers and Niang were decent at RT this year.

The offensive line could still be pretty decent without Brown.

If by some chance a mid 1st round pick... maybe from some team like the Eagles or Giants (teams with multiple 1st round picks)... might make its way back to the Chiefs in exchange for signing Brown, it maybe would afford us with a luxury to add a real difference maker on either side of the ball that we otherwise would have no shot at.

Niang was not decent at RT. He was awful. It's okay to say it because it's true.

He had problems from time to time, but he's also far better than the current alternatives. It's just very hard to get an elite LT when you constantly draft 28-32.

Or you could mind your own ****ing business. Are you in charge of shit around here? Do you feel in charge?

Before we sign anyone to anything. We will have to restructure, cut, and designate people as we currently have $4 Million in cap space which includes the $1 Million in carryover from 2021. If we restructure Mahomes roster bonus, designate Clark as a post June 1st release, and cut Hitchens we can over $83 Million in cap space.
Once some of that is done we can put Brown on the tag, which will leave us with approximately $66 Million. The average draft class that includes a 1st round pick is normally a little over $5 Million. So we should have a little over $60 Million to spend in FA. If we sign Brown to a long-term deal we will have more.
Numbers are from OTC Salary Cap Calculator.

Niang was good AT RT. He just wasn't there as much as we needed and hoped.

The period for using the tag is two weeks before the start of the actual league season. The tag comes before anything else.

LMAO you really just used a bane quote as a comeback and you weren't being facetious

Living inside his gets hot, he's running a fever

We do not have the cap space for that action.

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It would be nice if people would stop quoting that reerun so that I never have to see any of his posts.

I think he gets a big long term deal. He played well for us and is young and we kinda traded a 1st round pick as well for him. Veach gets it done.

They can always covert Mahomes salary to a signing bonus. That frees up some salary cap space and Mahomes doesn’t lose a dime.

Brown is good…what LT does good against speed rushers? the answer is none. we do need a RT. cause i don’t think Niang is the answer

This. And pm will adjust to him as well. Some of browns problems with pass rushers were made worse by pm and his depth in drops and giving the rusher better angles. Brown will get better too. Sign him long term. If we franchise him, his cost most likely goes up.

We absolutely do.

Just keep in mind that tagging him also simply gives them more time to get a deal done. The Chiefs have done it in the past - Will Shields comes to mind.

Just curious how this works. Are bonuses taxed at a higher rate than salary? Don't players pay taxes where they play the games? If you convert to bonus, is that less taxes paid out of salary to opposing cities?

Just curious how taxes work in the Athletes world.

I agree with the tag. I still would give him the option to negotiate with other teams, with the trade option. See what pans out. If we sign him back. It's a win. If another team offers us an unbelievable draft pick in return, it's a win.

I'm of the same opinion. Last year was the 1st year he'd played LT on a regular basis and he was just a little above OK in my book. I'm willing to give him a chance, but at this point, $20-22M is out. Just because you want to play LT doesn't mean you should get LT top dollar. I want to play PMII money QB in the NFL, but I don't think that's going to happen.

Except now we’re back to needing a LT again.

Thuney was not bad out there in his one appearance vs the Bengals.

Again, I am fine with Brown. But I am also fine with exploring options and weighing the +/- of what turns out best for the long term of the team.

If Brown would net us a pick in the 10-20 range in the draft, the +/- could be interesting.

You're not getting a mid-first rounder for him. If they tag him, it's to control him or work out a deal later this offseason. Nobody is going to want to give up the picks to get him at this point.

As far as Thuney, you don't want to get into that. He's an all-pro guard, you don't **** with that.

We also didn't have Humphrey and Smith when we signed Thuney.

And who is to say we couldn't get a high pick for Brown? Philly has 3 picks in that range.

Please explain, as of now we only have a little more than $4 million in cap space.

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The tag doesn't actually affect the cap until after the league season starts and you have time to get under the cap after the league season starts.

Basically, they tag him, re-sign/re-structure other players, get under the cap, and then move forward.

You can't trade Brown because he's not under contract.

If they tag him, they can trade him once the league year starts.

Anyone thinking of letting Brown go needs their head examined

Didn't they do it with Jones just a couple of years ago?

They also did the Jared Allen tag and trade. I guess we'll see where it goes. I'd probably do like a 3 year deal and try to find better/equivalent in the next couple drafts.

With Mahomes at QB, getting a better LT in the draft isn't likely to happen. Good left tackles generally go in the top half of the first.

We won't ever be picking high enough, barring some nightmare scenario that involves Mahomes, and quite frankly if that happens, we won't be worried about LT at all.

Did they end up tagging Jones or just threaten to use it? I can't find much about the history of the franchise tag unfortunately.

If they do any kind of restructure/reworking of contracts like Pat's, Thuney, etc. when do we see that happen? When do those cap cleaning measures take place? I guess they'd have to before the FA period if they plan on any big moves.

It won't be official until March 16 but teams can agree in principle at any time AFAIK. Alex Smith was essentially traded before the league season began, they just couldn't submit the stuff to the league office until the 2nd week of March.

FWIW, teams don't have to be under the salary cap at 4pm on March 16. There's a grace period after free agency starts.

I'll see if I can look it up.

Bakhitiari was a 4th round pick, Mailata like a 7th rounder. Donavan Smith a 2nd Rounder. Obviously the earlier in the 1st, the better your chances but you see quality in the mid-rounds often. Orlando Brown was a 3rd rounder and he had a pedigree.

Those late round guys are pretty rare. That's like saying you don't need a 1st round QB because Tom Brady was a 6th rounder. It's just statistical probabilities.

Plus, this past draft class as loaded with tackles and none of them really turned into good LT's outside of the two guys drafted in the top 15.

I'd be all for a legit no 2 WR or solid CB but for the most part this team needs a ton of draft picks to build the D. Those two playoff games should have spelled out for everyone how few playmakers and game changers this D has.

We really need to spend the effort on D line that we spent on O line last year...

I'd like to see them address DE and WR in free agency. Then address DL, DB, and the rest in the draft. Of course, that depends on what they do with HB as well.

That's true but it's also why I'd rely on Veach to find the player with solid potential. He could tell the tackles he'd prefer wouldn't be there before we'd pick so he traded for Brown. He was right. Get a 3 year contract in place and you have time to find your guy. Maybe it is through the draft or maybe it's a more viable LT from another team that is a bit more worth a longer contract. I'm just not sold on Brown, especially with the style of offense we are trying to run. I also don't want to let him walk until we have a viable replacement. I just see that as a way to buy time and not need to overspend on what seems like an average LT for what we'd ask him to do.

Like I said, I wouldn't be upset if they signed him long term but I just don't think he's worth what he wants. I'd treat him more as a rental and keep looking.

At this point I don't think HB matters. Andy's never going to turn the game over to one so what we've got is fine.

We need to. I think being willing to pound the ball to open up the offense and force the D to defend it should happen but Andy won't do it. The Andy/Pat combo just refuses to do what works until it's stopped. They'll run for a drive or for a few plays to eat clock but that's about it...

My apologies. I meant "HB" as in Honey Badger. If the re-sign him, we don't really need a starting safety, so we could look at depth in the draft. If they let him walk though, we probably need to get one in FA.

Franchise tag period opens tomorrow.

They don’t have the cap space to do tag him, right?

Someone is going to get cut or restructured.

They don't have to be under the cap until after the league season starts, AFAIK.

Correct, which is the start of FA.

Right, March 16th.

From what I understand, they can cut people then to make room for the tag, even though they can use the tag now.

My philosophy is fix the bleeding holes in FA, and in the draft, draft BAP and if it's the same position you just fixed with a FA draft him anyways and let them battle it out in training camp. I think drafting for needs you miss out on top quality players that can make a bigger impact but it's always nice to draft a BAP that fits a need. There's always a need for about any position and later rounds depth.

I always believe build team through the draft but using draft picks to get a young talent like Orlando Brown is fine but I hate spending draft picks on other teams trash especially the QB position.

That’s right. Nevermind.