***Official 2022 STL Cardinals Thread***
 

2022 Opening Day Lineup

2022 Opening Day roster


For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year, here are some of the historical threads going back to 2006.

I'm remembering we start the new season's thread when spring training games start. I watched part of yesterdays game.

Liberatore looked fantastic. More mature. Using that improved change to keep RH off the fastball on the outside corner. One outing but damn, he looked ready for the majors.

Flaherty and Reyes already hurt, it's going to be a long season for those two. Neither of them will even hit 150 innings

The cardinals should be on the horn with Oakland offering Nootbaar, Wynn and DeJong for Frankie Montas.

But they won’t be because Mozeliak is an idiot.

Why would the A's give up the best available pitcher on the market with 2 years remaining for DeJong, a 45 FV prospect, and a 35+ FV prospect?

We’ll see the return.

Alternatively you could say a 3-4 WAR shortstop with below market years on his deal, a turnkey lefthanded polished hitter and strong side of a platoon plus a fringe top 100 prospect.

You really expect a team to buy DeJong at a 3-4 WAR rate after spending 2 seasons looking like a bench player?

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The next time that Flaherty is healthy long term and his value is back up to an All-Star/#1 starter level, we need to trade him. There is absolutely no chance we resign him. He's going to want LA Dodgers money and return home. No way Dewitt opens up the checkbook for those numbers.

He leaves for FA, all we get is a bottom of the 1st round draft pick, correct?

If Mo actually gets Montas or Manaea that would be fantastic. Nothing in the history of Mo makes me think that will happen.

The next time Flaherty is healthy long term will be the first time Flaherty is healthy long term.

They'll be lucky if they hit 50 innings combined.

Schildt got fired for saying it too loud.

OP please change this to the Official Cardinals/Cubs thread so jd1020 feels at home when he inevitably shits it up.

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Should the Royals thread also be changed to Royals/Cardinals thread for when you post in that one, you whiney bitch.

I don't even plan on watching many Cubs games this year because they dont deserve my attention when they wont even bother to sign a player like Carlos Correa when they have a Pirates level future payroll commitment. You are the only person talking about them.

I only post in the Royals thread when they play the Cardinals you chode.

Why bother? You have a Cardinals thread to post in, dumb ****.

Because it serves as the game day thread sometimes dingus.

Looking at the Cardinals schedule it doesn't appear they have a ST game against the Royals today, and yet....

That post was supposed to be in the KU thread, I clicked the wrong one phoneposting.

Sue me

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">It&#39;s Story time in Boston!<br><br>Trevor Story has reportedly agreed to a $140 million deal with the Red Sox, per <a href="https://twitter.com/BNightengale?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@BNightengale</a> <a href="https://t.co/Oxp6MsZf33">pic.twitter.com/Oxp6MsZf33</a></p>&mdash; Sports Illustrated (@SInow) <a href="https://twitter.com/SInow/status/1505551316621344773?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 20, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Nobody comes in 2nd like Mo!

Story not worth the money, IMO. He’s basically Paul DeJong outside Coors. Might do decent in the weird dimensions of Fenway but I don’t know that he would have prospered at Busch.

Marp signs with Texas.

https://www.mlb.com/news/matt-carpen...metown-rangers

https://media1.giphy.com/media/AVDRJEriLkuMo/200.gif

It's not a bad contract, but it's also not a real miss, either. Seagar got $325 million over 10 years. While he's two years younger, he's also not over twice as valuable.

Jesus, that dude just finds a way to keep cashing checks

I just thought it was funny that the last thread had a tweet about the Cardinals showing the most interest in Story, then he signs with Boston.

Cards have always been my team, third generation. However, I love football so much more and hockey second.

Still not happy with Mike Schilt getting canned. It's a bitter sweet start to the season. Tough.

I predict the Cardinals will finish higher than my Pirates.

What's the core issues keeping your team from becoming competitive year after year?

Its a big city with a fantastic place to watch a game. You have a core base of passionate fans despite losing most of the time. Draft high almost every year. ???

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We have agreed to contracts with 5 arbitration eligible players: Jack Flaherty, Giovanny Gallegos, Jordan Hicks, Dakota Hudson, and Alex Reyes.<br><br>Harrison Bader and Tyler O&#39;Neill did not reach an agreement before the arbitration deadline.</p>&mdash; St. Louis Cardinals (@Cardinals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Cardinals/status/1506397282010292227?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 22, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


What does this mean for Bader and O'Neill?

I caught some of the game on the app today. They mentioned Bader not there and in the lineup up because of the no agreement on arbitration.

I thought arbitration was the player and the club present their case why it’s “this” amount and then the arbitrator decides who’s right. Did that change with the new deal?

It means that the Cardinals will present what they believe Bader and O'Neill is worth and those 2 players will present what they believe they are worth to a panel of arbitrators that will select either the Cardinals offer or the players offer and that's how much they will make. They can still come to a settlement before the hearing. Until the hearing the player is paid at what the team has filed for arbitration and the difference is made up if the player wins.

But, are they sitting out until the arbitrators decide who's right?

Cardinals are a ‘file and trial’ team.

They won’t settle unless it’s on a long-term deal.

Club may win Baders as arbitrators still don’t value defense all that well. They’ll probably lose O’Neill’s.

Oh well. They’ll be Cardinals in 2022 either way and it’s just DeWitts money. I hope they both wreck his stingy ass.

Never been done that I’ve seen.

Pretty sure I saw on twitter their absence from the lineup had nothing to do with arbitration. :shrug:

Ownership.

Nutting is frugal.

Woo: from the Athletic.


The Cardinals have had increased conversations with three-time MVP Albert Pujols, and interest is growing in bringing back the former Cardinal for the 2022 season, multiple sources familiar with the situation told The Athletic. Pujols, 42, would not be an everyday player. Rather, he would serve as a right-handed bench bat, similar to the role St. Louis identified when they inked outfielder Corey Dickerson to a one-year deal last week.

The Cardinals, an organization rich in tradition, have tended to stay away from consistent lineup platoons. New manager Oli Marmol has expressed other plans. The expectation is the first-year skipper would prefer to modernize his roster, utilizing platoons, matchups and lineup fluidity on a game-by-game basis.

If president of baseball operations John Mozeliak decides to bring back Pujols to St. Louis, it would be under the following pretenses: Pujols would not be a starter and would not upend Paul Goldschmidt’s playing time at first base. He would primarily be used off the bench as a late-inning power bat. He could also serve as a mentor for Juan Yepez, a promising 24-year-old reserve first baseman and sometimes corner outfielder who is hoping to make the big-league club when camp breaks.

Watching Liberatore pitch this afternoon was concerning for me. I know it's just ST, but the ball coming out of his hand moved on a really flat plane, and he got hit very hard as a result. Because he has more of a low 3/4 delivery, if his ball doesn't have any downward motion it just tracks right into the zone.

Thanks for starting up this thread again! I won’t be able to go to Opening Day like originally planned but will see them when they come visit Chicago and I’m looking into going to Boston to see a game during my birthday weekend

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Albert Pujols is returning home to St Louis on one-year contract. <a href="https://twitter.com/dgoold?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@dgoold</a> and <a href="https://twitter.com/katiejwoo?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@katiejwoo</a> on it.</p>&mdash; Bob Nightengale (@BNightengale) <a href="https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/1508298116180545539?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 28, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Let the Albert Pujols retirement celebration year begin.

Throw in Wainwight and Yadi and it's basically the Yankees with Pettitte, Rivera, and Jeter.

Yep, I love it. Perfect swan song for the three of them.

As long as he just PH against lefties late in the game.

Waaaaaaank.

Wank.

wank.

This isn't the move a team looking to win a championship makes. Not when they have a 24 year old polished righty hitter who MAULED baseballs at every stop next year.

A serious organization lets Juan Yepez spend this season working against big league pitchers so he can unleash hell on an unsuspecting world in September. So he can make the kind of progressions normal human beings like Dylan Carlson make before being a vital component down the stretch.

One year removed from watching him develop over the course of the season and we decide 'nah - don't need to let Yepez do that. Let's just roll with Albert...'

And hell, Dickerson's going to get most of the ABs that could've gone to Noot (and should PROBABLY) end up going to Burleson by mid-season).

This just hasn't been a smart organization for a very long time.

The Dickerson signing really is a perfect embodiment of everything these guys are.

For 6 years from 2014-2019 the guy puts up a .900 OPS against righties while making $13 million total over that time. The whole damn time I'm screaming for them to pick him up to platoon and have as a premier lefty off the bench because we had nothing in the system worth sending out there that hit from the left side.

We finally end up with a couple of guys 'professional hitter' types with some long-term potential in the role in Nootbaar and Burleson. Meanwhile Dickerson showed obvious decline last season right when every aging curve in the world shows a substantial drop off (though it levels out for a couple years from here). And NOW we want to pay him $5 million to come here.

I really do not understand it. This team just makes very few intelligent acquisitions anymore. They don't pursue surplus value anywhere apart from the back of the rotation and the middle of the bullpen.

It's like they've forgotten how to build a winning team. I really don't understand it.

Hey - remember when we could've signed Bryce Harper for $26 million/season and had him finish his HoF career in St. Louis? That didn't actually happen, right?

Dammit this organization pisses me off.

I'm more concerned by your reports of him being at a low 3/4. That's not common for him.

He's always been something of a typical 3/4 delivery guy and even a little bit of a short-armer so it's given him really good deception and depth on his pitches.

If he's gone to a low 3/4 he's protecting something. That's almost always a bad sign. Or, God help me, he's doing that same stupid bullshit that Reyes did at about the same time when he decided that merely being good in the mid-90s wasn't enough. He needed to be bad and erratic in the HIGH 90s so he started coming off late and from a lower arm slot to find velocity.

Then again, it may just be early season buildup. It's hard to get your arm up there (my PT when I broke my shoulder knew I played ball as a kid because my right shoulder just doesn't go up as high as my left - she said it happens to anyone who's played baseball, just a lot of buildup in there). Early in the season he may just be needing to loosen that stuff up to find his correct arm slot.

I'll worry more if he's still at a low 3/4 by May. With the truncated spring I may have to give more latitude here than I otherwise would.

I don’t see the issue if Yepez isn’t ready. Let him get full playing time in Memphis and when he’s ready bring him up.

I have more of an issue with Matz being the prize of this off-season.

He tore the cover off the ball in Memphis last year. He has nothing to learn from AAA pitching.

What’s he going to learn from 600 ABs in Memphis that he won’t learn better from 450 ABs in the majors?

The ability to not be only restricted to DH at age 24 and be able to actually play 1st at a passable level moving forward. I'm also not sold on a guy being ready for major league pitching with how he's struggled (granted, it's spring training).

But that's the thing - sending him back to AAA isn't going to help there. That's why I cited Carlson.

Sending Carlson back to AAA wouldn't have ultimately helped him last year. He NEEDED to see these guys who were pitching him backwards or who would throw breaking balls in fastball counts.

I've NEVER seen a rookie get pitched like Carlson got pitched coming up. I talked about it several times on here - that guy would get 3-2 breaking balls. He'd get first pitch changeups with RISP. He got his ass tossed into the deep end of the pool and it was the ONLY thing that was going to help him.

And who says he can't play passable 1b? Moreover, why does it even matter? We're stuck with the aging 1b with the most fungible skill-set on the planet at 1b for the foreseeable future.

Additionally, he played 3b and LF last year in the minors while playing mostly 1b. And WTF can Albert Pujols play? Not a thing - that's the guy that's knocking him off the roster. A guy who can't play anywhere defensively and can't score from 2nd on a single if his life depended on it.

Pujols is NOT a better player than Yepez right now. He doesn't do one single thing better than Yepez right now. If you put Pujols in AAA he wouldn't manage a .970 OPS w/ nearly as many walks as strikeouts. And as for Yepez's 'struggles' - dude has .230 BABIP and 5 walks to only 3 strikeouts. He's right there. He's taking good ABs.

That's a guy that needs MORE time on the field against big league pitching, not less.

He's also 24 yrs old in his 7th season as a professional. You don't need to worry about the 40 (he's already on it) or options (he'll make it or not well before his 3 option years are burned off). This isn't some 19 yr old kid who had a big year fueled by a good BABIP despite a poor approach. He did EVERYTHING you can ask for of a young hitter and he did it at the age where he's ready to advance.

This isn't a move a serious organization makes.

My counterpoint to you would be do you think Yepez would become a blackhole at DH and bring no other value to the team while he's slumping? Carlson, even when slumping, still played good defense.

Yes, Yepez has nothing to prove. I don't think how the roster's constructed he'd be getting routine ABs (whether he and Gorman should split DH ABs is a different story, but I'd be onboard with that, if they're ready). FO wanted the farewell tour while doing a half ass upgrade with getting Dickerson. Given that's the situation they put themselves in, I'd much rather have Yepez take more time to see pitches and become a better fielder than getting 5 ABs in a week.

Also, Carlson was hailed as probably the Cardinals best or second best (Gorman being the other) offensive prospect since Taveras. Yepez was a lottery ticket traded for Matt Adams.

I just don't care how good a fielder he becomes. He's never going to be more than a backup at 1b or in the corners, at least not until he's in his late 20s at best and I ain't keeping him in Memphis that long.

For the next 3+ years he's a DH or a minor leaguer.

And he should just be the DH. Again, it's not like that lumbering fossil that's taking his place on the roster can do anything to add value other than swing at a few lefties every week. And unlike Pujols, Yepez can actually take quality ABs against righties.

As of today, no - he wasn't going to get many ABs.

But prior to this acquisition I think he would've been lined out to get the lion's share of the ABs from the right side of the platoon and eventually could've earned a much bigger load (as his upside is significantly higher than Noot or Dickerson).

It's the 'halfassed fairwell tour' that I take specific umbrage with. Molina has reached the Mathieu level of being an overrated, overpaid and ungrateful red-ass at this point. In the end I think this is a 3-4 win better team with additional financial flexibility had they gone with Yan Gomes as a 2-year placeholder for Herrera and stuck Juan Yepez at DH instead of giving Molina a raise after last-seasons awful year and getting the band back together.

The team is focusing on the gate not the product on the field.

Par for the course really.

Pujols was/is my favorite player since Bob Gibson. He gave us the best 11 years in a row any player has had in MLB history. That said……

Pujols on this team in 2022 will slow down or block younger players. But, It’s a done deal with Mo. the choice has been made.

I thought that Mo and Dewitt got rid of Schildt to make sure we played more younger players?

Oh. That's cute.

You believed that?

They fired Shildt because he wouldn't take "we're going to go cheap and you'll get Steven Matz and like it..."

DeWitt doesn't care about playing young players - he cares about turning a profit. Oftentimes one begets the other. But in this case more profit is to be made by running zombie Pujols out there.

****ing DeWitt, man.

Yeah pretty underwhelming off-season at best with Matz being about it. Not much of a surprise though.

Of course not. It was sarcasm. Ever since the 2011 World Series Dewitt has been all about the money, not winning championships.

They just had Pujols walk out from the locker room onto the outfield and into the dugout at the end of the first half of the 1st inning. Of course, he got a standing ovation from the fans and players.

Let's hope after a month of ovations as a Card, he decides to retire or they agree he goes to IR (he has feet issues they could use at the very least) and he hangs around the dugout as a bench presence for the younger guys. Probably not what they are doing, but that I could at least stomach.

I wish the rumor that Mike Shannon said about the club being for sale was true. This club makes so much money compared to other franchises; our prized FA addition should not be Matz.

Cardinals are going to win the NL Central and yet everyone will bitch about DeWitt's spending.

3/5's of the NLC isnt even trying. Winning this division right now is meaningless. Playing to just win the NLC is playing to win the right to be swept in the playoffs.

That's DeWitts bread and butter

Beating the Reds, Cubs and Pitt doesn’t float our boat. We’d like to win championships.

It took two teams having historic meltdowns in August/September along with a 21 game winning streak for the Cardinals to claim a spot in a play-in game. That they lost.

If Urias and Adames play at the level they did last year or Yelich shows any sort of bounce back, the Cardinals won't be winning the NLC.

Hell, even that OF w/ the additions of Renfroe and McCutchen (who will take well to that park) is going to be better than expected.

And my problem w/ DeWitt at this point isn't even the spending - he's provided a sufficient payroll for a good team. It's his unwillingness to fire Mozeliak. We spend the money poorly more often than we don't.

Mozeliak just does what DeWitt wants.

And the Cardinals haven’t been spending relative to increased revenues involving both the team and Ballpark Village.

Mozeliak could've easily convinced DeWitt to go with Harper instead of Goldschmidt if he wanted to.

Mozeliak just makes bad decisions.

DeWitt flat out said the reason they didn’t sign Luis Robert was because they didn’t want to pay for the second contract.

And again - a good GM shows him otherwise.

And you'll get no defense of this organization on LouBob from me. I was EASILY his loudest proponent 'round these parts and others.

I was furious they didn't get that deal done.

This is where we'll disagree.

I don't think Mozeliak's bad with what DeWitt demands of him. 2016-2018 was a result of DeWitt refusing to do a proper rebuild.

There are things to criticize Mozeliak about-his relief signings, Fowler(which I'd contend was the right move at the time), Wiggington, only getting Heyward and Ozuna for a short time, etc, but I still don't see why he should be fired.

I'd like to see what he could do if ownership didn't give him a mandate of being "good enough" every year.

My criticism of Mozeliak is that he won't put his dick on the table.

He won't take any risks to make the team better.

Yeah, if he goes to DeWitt and says "no, we have to sign Harper instead of this Goldschmidt deal" and sells it, it gets done. And maybe it backfires and DeWitt loses his job.

But we're a lot closer to contention with the reigning NL MVP in his prime than we are with an aging RH slugger.

Mozeliak has fallen firmly into the Carl Peterson trap of never being willing to take risks because he knows that he won't get fired for what he DOESN'T do.

And that's the reason this team has such a low ceiling.

And frankly at this point I'm convinced that the reason Mozeliak won't take risks is because he's simply not confident that he's right. He's lost the feel for this job.

As I've said before - I don't need a reason to fire a guy who has one of only 30 jobs in the league. I need a reason to KEEP him. And Mozeliak's record over the last 5-8 years gives me exactly zero reasons to keep him (and no, the Fowler signing was obviously stupid from the second it was made. Just as the Leake deal, Miller deal and Cecil deals were).

The man's set $200 million on fire in a half-decade on replacement level (at best) players. Even if you don't see that as a reason to fire him (though you really should), I certainly don't see any reasons to retain him either.

Who would you have signed that offseason instead of Fowler?

Holliday was nearing the finish line, Pham was an injury prone AAAA guy, Grichuk was supposed to become something of a note, Bader hadn't made his debut, Hazelbaker was given consistent ABs, and Piscotty at this point hadn't had his mom diagonsed with ALS.

I guess Austin Jackson or Ben Revere would have sufficed as a short-term solution?

As for your criticism about him not putting his dick on the table, I don't disagree with you, but again, I don't know how much of that is him choosing to do that or being handicapped by DeWitt. They fired Shildt so they could basically have an echo chamber.

And no, I don't think as long as DeWitt is owner, they'd sign someone to a contract as long and expensive as Harper.

I wanted them to hand the reigns to Grichuk and embrace him for the player he WAS rather than the player he WASN'T. Same thing I wanted done with Bader and O'Neill.

And I'll never understand why the Harper contract's length is such a stumbling block. The Cardinals will be giving Goldschmidt the same amount of money through the same age as the Phillies will be giving Harper. The difference is that by the time that Harper's that age, that money will be even further devalued and in the meantime you get Harpers PRIME.

If you'll give Goldschmidt $26 million to play from ages 31-36, why the hell wouldn't you throw a few more years at the FRONT end to a better player at the same rate in Harper?

Again - because this is a stupid, gutless organization. The Mark Ellis signing was the first LOUD warning that these guys have no concept of aging curves and it's gotten far worse since then.

He should have been fired for extending Carpenter alone! Maybe the stupidest thing he could ever do...no one else was bidding against him. Just un-forgiveable.

They wanted everyone to feel comfortable in the locker room. Safe and comfortable with long term contracts for everyone is not a championship method to success. That’s only used for the Harper’s and Molina’s of baseball. Not on an obviously declining older player.

Molina IS an obviously declining older player.

And somehow got a raise over last season.

Really incredible.

Mikolas' extension was just as stupid and unnecessary at the time. But yea the Carp extension was epic stupid.

The money we have paid Carp, Fowler, Mikolas, and that shitty ass lefty reliver (name escapes my mind) would have paid for a couple much better players. I think thats DJ's point.

Brett Cecil, 4 years 30 million. :banghead:

Unless you mean: Andrew Miller, 2 years 25 million.

You have to be more specific when discussing Mo's lefty reliever debacles :)

Well, Yepez just got drilled in the face.

Cardinals just had a 15 run 8th inning and are up 28-4.

Probably why I couldn't quite remember, too many ****ups to keep straight.