Kiper: Trading for Jameson with Pitt
 

Hey draftniks, just watched a you tube of the show get up on ESPN. Mel Kiper was on saying he thought the Chiefs could give the 1st and 2nd round Miami picks to Pitt at 20 and jump up before the Pats and GB and pick Jameson.

What’s the opinion in here on Jameson? Going higher than 20, say 15 or so?

I neither love nor hate that idea.

There are so many fascinating ways this franchise could re-shape itself going forward that I don't think I would go the 'well lets see if we can find a lesser version of the guy we traded away with the return we got for him' plan.

But...we did okay with that first plan. So. I dunno.

For me, I'm keeping every damn pick we have and using every single one of them to continue building the depth of this roster and stack quality young talent across the board.

But again - they didn't ask me.

Wouldn't like it. You're basically forgoing the best value you got from trading Hill....to draft a WR who may or may not replace Hill.

You traded Tyreek Hill for Jameson Williams, two 4th round picks and a 6th? Color me ****ing unimpressed.

If that’s the direction you go, that’s fine, but you better be right.

It’s really that simple.

Keep the picks. Nobody is 1-for-1 replacing Hill. We need numbers.

Mocking Jameson Williams to the Chiefs is just lazy writing.

He's fast. Tyreek Hill was fast. They lost Tyreek Hill. So mock Williams to the Chiefs.

Shit is getting old.

not saying i like the trade or even Jameson. As is obvious, I’m no draftnik. But, I don’t see it as a tit for tat. We trade for Hill lite via the draft picks received.

there is also the cap space gained. $100 million can get you some good players or keep your good players from leaving.

My own opinion is to keep those 6 picks and focus on rebuilding the defense.

And $20 million in cap space.

Exactly.

Let’s say that Jameson Williams has a Waddle like season, or at least 2nd half of the season.

Would anybody be regretting the trade?

I don’t think I would.

But Waddle was a huge hit, so this would have to be as well.

Yup.

If he’s really the best WR I’m the draft then he’s a future star. And if that’s what he becomes you’re golden.

But man you’re really working without a net in that case.

It’s a better idea than trading up to 15 to get the 3rd or 4th best DL in the draft and with WR contracts doing what they’re doing it may be the only way to get another superstar wideout in here for a long time.

Like I said - I can see the merits of both approaches.

But Veach CANNOT get that wrong.

That's the thing. Right there.

I'm not a fan; but IF they do it, it's because Veach, and Reid, and EB, and Patrick are all 100% on it.

Yes.

I'm 100% in agreement.

I think the signings we've made in FA indicate a change. These are bigger guys.

I'm not saying we might not take a flyer on Austin in the 4th and see if he can become Tyreek 2 Electric Boogaloo- but I don't think that's the primary concern.

Just get good football players. Andy has run offenses with different personnel, and always done well.

I'd prefer to sit back rather than aggressively trade up. We need bodies, this is a really deep draft, and we WILL have some really nice talent there for us all the way through round 4 if any of the mocks are remotely close.

if they sign off, they view Jameson as a top receiver and if they are right and he is the man, that means 4.5 years of service, at best then he’s leaving for the $150 million contract. Such is life under the cap.

I have to admit, at first I was all in on the guy 100% but, now that the smoke has cleared, I am all in on staying put and using ALL of our draft picks as they lay and see what Veach comes up with for the FUTURE of this team. I can have my wishes for how the draft unfolds but again - keep the picks. This is a great opportunity for us. :thumb:

Perfect answer. Period.

8 picks in the first four rounds.

This is some Madden Franchise Mode shit!

This draft is going to be a ton of fun to watch!

IMHO, if we package both our firsts to move up, it had best be for one of the elite pass rushers, and it better be getting us in the top ten or twelve picks.

I want a receiver out of this draft that will grow into a weapon as bad as anyone, but I'm not trading our most valuable capital to take one. EDGE is way more of a priority.

You are the victim of what you complain about….laziness of thought.

The Chiefs need playmakers WR..JW is a playmaker, a very good one, one who is expected to go in the middle of the first round.

JuJu is signed for one year, Hardman is in the final year of of his contract. There is a need, a dire need to take a shot at a cost controlled potential star receiver.

Maybe you would like to see KC chose a QB with their first pick, because it would be unexpected, and stupid.

It’s not lazy, it’s obvious.

Probably been stated but 1040 puts us at 14

Jameson Williams is not the only playmaker in this draft. There are literally 8-10 WRs who would help this team and probably wouldn’t take trading up to get them.

Would rather trade up for Burks.

My strategy would be to trade up and get jameson or burks. I’d prefer jameson. I’m assuming olave is gone. Get an edge at 30 And get an edge rusher and dt in the 2nd.

For example;

18th pick jameson with 29, earlier 3rd and 4th and a 4th in 2023
Or
21st pick burks with 29 with the later 3rd and 4th

Moving up to 15 is a little rich. But I like the edge rushers in the 2nd better than I like wrs in the late first and 2nd. I would be ok with trading up to 15 if we could trade down from 30 and try to get back in the 2nd to take a de or a dt.

All of these edge guys are probably available in the second and yes a run may happen early in the 2nd. Ojabo and Sam Williams are my favorites but lots of guys here to take.

Boye Mafe
David Ojabo
Arnold Ebiketie
Logan Hall
Drake Jackson
Kingsley Enagbare
Cameron Thomas
Nik Bonitto
Myjai Sanders
Sam Williams

Here are your 2nd round or later wrs. WRs are tough to evaluate with a high percentage of busts or jags. This group mostly probably falls into that category. Either they won’t be able to get off the jam, create separation, run routes or their competition or numbers are limited, which increases their risk.

Jahan Dotson
Christian Watson
George Pickens
Skyy Moore
David Bell
John Metchie III
Jalen Tolbert
Wan'Dale Robinson
Alec Pierce
Calvin Austin III

Here’s your 2nd round or later DTs. I’d target perrion winfrey in the 2nd.

Travis Jones
Logan Hall
DeMarvin Leal
Perrion Winfrey
Phidarian Mathis

So, your 1st and 2nd rounds of the draft might look like this with the first trade and you still have the 3rd, 4th, 6th and 7ths.

18 jameson
30 ojabo
50 perrion winfrey
62 Sam Williams

I’m not interested in trading a first and second for anyone in this draft, but I wouldn’t be mad if Veach did it, either.

This draft has depth at the exact positions we have short and long term need at.

I’d prefer if Veach let’s the star come to him.

If he wants to move up…please try to use next years third or 4th..or both.

We need all the picks this year.

I could see Burks and/or Dotson dropping a bit, and one of them, or Moore or Pickens is going to be a very good player imo. But I'm far less confident than with Williams.

I agree with staylor and DJ - it's a big risk to give away the picks so you better be right, but you have to factor in the money as well.

**** that, considering his availability

What he misses 3 or 4 games at the worst…? Come on.

Jameson Williams is going to be a superstar and easily WR1 for me so I’d do that trade in a second…

Come on? How do we know if he'll be 100%, and rush thus becoming constantly injured. If the Chiefs still had Tyreek, I'd be fine with it because he can be let loose during the playoff run.

Pure speculation.

Even the optimists think it's going to take 8 months AT LEAST to rehab. Which means he misses AT LEAST half the season.

And when you consider he's not going to get the full offseason program, he might not contribute at all in year 1.

Furthermore, NO draftee is "going to be a superstar" especially not a guy that was injured so recently. Yes, he has a good chance to be great but it's not guaranteed AT ALL.

There is nothing Veach could do that would make me mad. I trust him.

That being said, there's good ideas and bad ideas. Trading up like this is a BAD idea.

I would rather use our later picks to move up in the mid rounds on someone we like...there is just too much talent available in this draft to give away any of our top 3 round picks.

I would hate going back to two picks in the first round, especially on wide receiver where we have lots of options in rounds 2-4.

I really dont want to trade up, I love having all these picks and believe staying put will add huge value to our team for years to come.

However, if theres a guy that I feel would make the biggest impact and come as close as possible to replacing Tyreek, its Jameson Williams!

We have the WRs to wait for him to contribute later in the season. It took Tyreek a year or two to really become what he was. Waiting half a season or even a full season is really a best case scenario in terms of replacing Tyreek. It could take years or maybe never.

We will never have a chance to draft a guy like this as long as Mahomes and Andy are here. I know its a risk because of the injury but it is the only reason we have a shot at him.

I am coming around to the idea of trading up but only for this guy!

Nothing in the draft is a guarantee. It’s all about risk reward. Jameson is a guy with legit superstar potential, though. That much is without question.

If KC moves up for him (which is possible) I’d hope it would be sending our first and next years third to move up…or this years first and second but getting a late third back.

It's not just about risk and reward, it's also about opportunity cost, which you covered.

There's 2 things that I'm not super excited about in this draft or any draft:

1. Trading up and giving away value to zero in on one player and
2. Picking up players with injuries that prevent them from contributing right away.

With Williams, you're getting both. I simply don't like it. If they do it, I would understand why but I don't like it.

The only injured player who I'd be okay with them taking a shot on would be David Ojabo. And that's at #30...with the caveat that they're taking another DE in the 2nd round.

I'm going to be repeating myself here, but a recent mock showed Jordan Davis at 17.

You trade up for Jordan Davis at 16. He's going to be a monster.

**** no.

After sleeping on it. I love this idea. Jameson has the highest floor and the highest ceiling for any wr in this draft coming out of bama with his skill set and athletic ability. He should be ready for the last half of the season and playoffs. And the draft is deep in the 2nd for dline. The move below fits well for what we need.

McShay was on ESPN saying the same thing. Give Philly or Pitt the Miami 1&2 rounders and go get Jameson.

His other point was the Chiefs don’t need 8 picks in the first 4 rounds. Leverage the draft capital to move up.

**** that

Jeff Simmons went to the titans at 19 in 2019 and was a top ten guy before injury. Moving up to 18 might be a good spot to get jameson and is hopefully cheaper than moving up to 15.

I like Jameson but I'm not trading up for him

Burks is a terrible pick. Guy can't run routes. I don't understand what people see in him? Pickens is another bad pick. Not worth even using a 3rd for him.
Jameson Williams and Garret Wilson are the only two legit receivers in this draft that Veach may to move up for. Otherwise, pick Dotson and be happy with that.
I am absolutely in favor of trading a 1st and our 2nd to get Williams. He is a game wrecker that could somewhat replace Hill's production, although not right away.
You would need to trade between the 15-19 range where I think he will be available.

I disagree entirely with your take.

Let me put it another way-historical perspective.

Aaron Rodgers won his Super Bowl with Greg Jennings and Donald Driver as his primary WR's.

Couldn't get it done with Davante Adams.

Know what I'm saying?

Maybe two GOOD WR's are > one great one.

If I'm trading up for someone, it's Garrett Wilson.

The highest floor?

If he doesn't come back 100% from his knee injury, he's out of the league in 3 years.

He's a speed receiver. His floor is literally a guy who doesn't contribute at all if he doesn't come back with the same explosion he had before the injury.

Among the WRs the highest floors are easily Wilson and Olave. They're both healthy and play a more rounded game. I don't think either of them have the ceiling of Williams but few guys in this entire draft actually have a lower floor that Jameson Williams.

Exactly.

Once your QB starts making real money, it's his job to make B level WR talent outperform their paychecks.

Any swinging dick can throw to HoFers - Alex Smith did it. And yeah, it makes a great QBs job easier. But when he wants to get paid, there are sacrifices that come with that and having that easy job is one of them.

The WR market is making it look like the days of a top 5 QB and a top 5 WR on his 3rd contract are effectively over. And frankly, a guy getting a top flight WR on his second contract is pretty unlikely unless the deal is signed a year early and you leverage some AAV concessions out of it that way.

Because it took you sleeping one night to confirm what you’ve been saying in every draft thread for the last month?

The only caveat is if that top 5 QB is on a rookie deal. Cinci's window with Chase and Burrow will be short. Now, depending on how they handle it, and how they draft, their contender window may be as long as Burrow can play at a high level; but if they're smart, they'll move Chase for a huge haul when it behooves their roster, just like we did Tyreek.

It's painful, but it's the smart move in the long view.

I'm not going to complain if they trade up for a guy, as I'll assume they're just 100% all in on the kid and he was THEIR guy-but me, personally, I would not trade up in any significant fashion in those first two rounds. There's too much talent at our specific areas of need to spend the draft capital in that manner.

Just my opinion.

Moving to 18 will require the equivalent of a 30 AND 50.

No.

****ing.

Way.

I thought our early 3rd & 4th and next years 4th could move us up from 29 to 18? Is that incorrect?

I'd have to look at the draft value chart again.

Note that I'm not saying it will take 30 and 50. It will take the equivalent value though. 30 and 50 are roughly worth somewhere between the 18th and 19th pick.

LMAO No.

That maybe gets you to 21 and that's if you value a 4th rounder in 2022 as a mid 4th this year....which it's not.

Yep, just thought about all the busts from other schools and how bama wrs have done well. Ohio state wrs have mostly been jags or busts?

29 and 50 gets you to around 15-16.

Seriously....who gives a shit about that?

Culture & training are important. A track record of successful draft picks is obviously important. You must be trolling.

Veach isn't trading up in the 1st all his moves will be made in the 2nd and 3rd round with his mantra that this draft class has a depth of talent

Hmm…. That maybe true. If that’s the case, I’m hoping ojabo and Watson then. Roll the dice for the home run talent. Get Sam Williams at 50. That could be fun.

He’s ahead of schedule. Dane Brugler reported he’s the #1 WR on a lot of teams boards.

Oh well

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Former Alabama WR Jameson Williams, two months removed from surgery on his torn ACL, is not participating in Alabama’s Pro Day today. But here here he is last week, continuing to progress, with the expectation being that he’ll be running by the draft, per <a href="https://twitter.com/Alliance_Sports?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Alliance_Sports</a>. <a href="https://t.co/Z4cP9J1mbR">pic.twitter.com/Z4cP9J1mbR</a></p>&mdash; Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) <a href="https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1509212185981079557?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 30, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

ROFL He looks 100%!

A mock I read earlier showed us taking him at 29.

Simms in love with jameson

https://youtu.be/A7n8OEGQvig

Right!? lol

I really think we're not moving up in a significant way. Look at all the FA deals we've done- one year deals, most of them. Look at how few players we have under contract next year. No I think Veach and Reid decided to overhaul this roster this season and utilize the 8 top 135 picks to do it. I think they felt this is a deep enough draft to stock up.

Dang, Simms feels like he should go to the Jets at #4 or #10 and thinks he ends up between 10-20. We're gonna have to go up and get him if we want him.

WAS @ #11
BAL @ #12
HOU @ #13
MIN @ #14
PHI @ #15, #16 or #19
LAC @ #17
NO @ #18
PIT @ #20
NE @ #21

The Saints are having cap issues and need to get younger, PIT & HOU could use the extra picks, maybe WAS.

Saw someone else suggesting that #30+#50 gets us to #11.

Prob is that NYJ and NYG are in need of a WR, same with ATL and WAS, all in the top 11 picks.

I'd say at least 2 go to those teams by 11, which means if Williams is still due to ACL there you're prob trying to get to #15-#21.

I hope he goes high enough we're not tempted to trade up.

30 + 50 gets us to about 17-18, not 11.

Getting to 11 likely means giving up a 1st and 2nd or even two 1sts.

No ****ing way.

no ****in' way.

We have spaces to fill, we need bodies, the depth of the early portion of this draft aligns perfectly, and it wouldn't be prudent to give that up for one guy who won't be 100% in his first year, probably at any time. I mean, he'll play, at some point, but we've seen what that first year off an ACL looks like.

I pointed this out a while back...how many roster spots does KC have available?

During a normal draft...you can usually assume your first 4 rounders will make the 53....Chiefs had to stash their 4th round WR on the practice squad last year.

Having all these draft picks sounds cool...as long as you have room to keep them.

Veech has 4 7th round picks in a deep draft....which allows him to grab the players who would normally be UCFAs. It's was a pretty savvy move...until he had 4 top 120 picks fall in his lap.

Chiefs dont have 12 roster spots....then there are roster cuts.

They are going to have to get creative....so go get your shiny new toy for Mahomes. Christian Kirk signed a 72 million dollar contract with the Jaguars.

WR is now the 2nd most expensive position....and Hardman/Ju-Ju have one year left. Chiefs should actually take two...

We absolutely do have 12 roster spots available. Hell, we have 3 DE and 2 DT spots alone.

I have hunch some team like the Panthers/Falcons might want pick 30...to nab a QB before Detroit at 32.

Get that 2nd rounder back + change.

Do you understand the team at all?

Powell was a 5th round pick.

They absolutely have 12 roster spots. They'll have more than that next year as well.

Does that mean that he'll make all 12 picks? Not likely.

There are some aging mercenary FA DEs out there..Ingram is one.

Even with adding 2-3 more free agents, we have room for all of our draft picks. In the end, I think they do some moving around so they won't have 12 but they could take 12 and it wouldn't be an issue.

No I dont...not like Veech and neither do you. We're not privy to their conversations. I am good with numbers though...

Internet football experts getting ALL forceful...:)

I think Veech is going to aggressively get the players he wants...and WR seems to be a position he doesn't shy away from.

He's great at managing the cap...so he knows exactly what the numbers are. Which positions are expensive..and where there are "pockets" of players in the draft.

I’m assuming here that London, Wilson, olave and burks are all gone before pick 20. If any of those wrs are still there, don’t make the trade until they are gone and then look to move up?

Steelers at 20 might be the sweet spot to move up for jameson bc it’s possible that we don’t have to give up our 2nd rounders. I love the value of the second round picks, especially on defense, so I’d prefer to not give them up. Steelers also have the opportunity to draft qbotf with our 29th pick and get that 5th year on his contract. Trade 29 and the earlier 3rd, 4th and 4th next year to the Steelers for pick 20.