Things I think it's time for:
 

1. You can't trot Ammendola out again. You just can't. It'd be mutiny. I don't care what you do, you have to cut him and sign someone else. I'd go for two every time and have Reid kick off before I did that again.

2. Justin Watson needs way more snaps. Yes, he could've caught that one ball today, but he's big, he's fast, hes a physical match-up problem, and he usually catches the ball. He was inches away from another big TD today. Play him.

3. It's time to get Pacheco more touches. The midget squad isn't getting it done. It's not all their fault, but at least Pacheco is big and strong enough to maybe break some tackles.

4. It's time to bench Wylie. Wanegho can't be worse, and might have upside. Just do it, for accountability's sake if nothing else.

5. I think it's time to force feed more snaps to Moore. I don't want him returning punts anymore. Put Hardman there, you know what Hardman is, and he's not a route running WR. At least he might break a PR.

I mean, I don't watch practice but it's puzzling how little Skyy has been involved in the real offense. Mecole should be the special teams guy, not Skyy. Until further notice.

What do you have to lose?

Agreed. Four down territory all game, and call your plays with that intent.
And Brown doesn’t deserve top LT money.

Putting Hardman on special teams is every bit as likely to cause what we had happen today. Have you forgotten the inexcusable gaffes he had returning?...

I do agree that Hardman should be the returner. If we’re determined to bring kicks out of the end zone, then why not give it to the best option for a big return?

If Skyy was this big punt return guy in college Id be more on board, but he wasn't really used like that

Time for......

1. Toub to be fired.

2. Someone to get Andy some new pants. He has shit these horribly.

3. Jones to shut the **** up.

4. Bieniemy's role to be significantly lessened.

5. Butker's ankle to heal.

I know Hardman has made his fair share of bad decisions on punt returns, but at least he’s a threat for a big return. Take the good with the bad.

Or let Pacheco have his turn and see how that goes. We have like 5 guys who can return on this team. It's not like we're out of options...

yeah, but the reason for not using Hardman was to utilize him more offensively. Nothing is really happening there, and Moore and Watson need more touches. Hardman is what he is, a gadget player and return guy. Just use him that way and let's see what these other guys can do.

Andy mother****ing Heck needs to be fired. How many shit OL is he gonna be part of?? He’s not a good OL coach. Why is he still here?

That’s where I was going.

Even Hardman’s biggest critics normally acknowledge what he can do well. He’s absolutely capable of big returns. If he isn’t going to catch 70 passes this year, then we might as well accept him for what he is and use him to his strengths.

Yep. But Hardman was. That's what he needs to do now also.

Pat also needs to realize he can't extend every play. What would a game look like where Pat has no choice but get rid of the ball in 4 seconds? Just quick plays and distribute?

It can be done. Those quick slants and routes can be called. It really is a team effort.

Veach needs to draft an offensive weapon

They won't play for 2 years anyway. We need to maximize what we've got.

Players playing smarter and coaches coaching smarter...

And a tackle. His tackle weakness will be the death of this team.

Absolutely...it might be time to cut bait on Orlando. it aint working

As long as that weapon plays Left Tackle.

At this point idk who we have, but can they possibly be worse?

Unfortunately this.

Which hurts a bit with how much cheaper rookie contracts are but that's how Andy usually rolls.

It can always get worse.

Can it though? OBJ was lifted some by the refs as he was false starting all over the place today. Luckily the refs didn’t call them. He was the worst LT I can remember watching for a game today. He sucks, I hope he dies before the next game. Not really, but kind of.

Absolutely. But let's not allow that to prevent us from trying to improve...

Glad I am not the only one that saw that. Kept looking for flags and never saw them. Was about to make eye doctor appointment.

It's the main reason I don't blame the refs for this game. I saw 3 for sure and it wasn't like I was watching his ass the whole game. There could have been more but I was checking the WR's to see how much play Hardman and Moore got...

1. I agree. You have nothing to lose by trying to sign someone else.

2. Watson looked very average today, although that goes for all our receivers. Too early to tell on him.

3. Meh. Pacheco has not looked special. He looks decent, and he's young, so maybe he'll grow into the role, but I haven't seen anything terribly impressive from him so far. At best, he looks like an even swap for Clyde.

4. It can (and likely WOULD) get much worse with Wylie. We've put ourselves into this situation. We shored up our interior, but haven't done much at RT, so you get what you pay for.

5. He looked bad at returning. I would like to see more reps from him at WR. There isn't too much of a downside, IMO. You can give snaps to Moore that are currently going to Gray/Watson/Hardman/MVS.... all "meh" so far this year.

And a DE. Assuming Karlaftis is a success he’s still the only long term DE we have.

Time for everyone to calm down it's week 3

He seems like the real deal at this point. He’s playing out of his mind. But it’s gonna be along season with our OL looking like it did, and our receivers not living up to their potential. Fingers crossed we rebound

I pretty much agree with all of these takes.

As minor expansions or differences, I'm a fan of Wylie. I think he gets a lot of criticism and I'm not sure we have more troubles on the right side than on the left side. And Wylie costs 90 percent less than the problem on the left side.

I'm going to run with the theory that Skyy had a bad day today, and I'll support him returning punts again. But he's been scaring me all season with his catches, so he's on thin ice.

Agreed on all but #3. Pacheco needs to earn his touches. Seems like when the run game can't get off the ground ALL the backs struggle. I would much rather see Ronald Jones in short yardage but whatever.....

Moore isn't ready to return punts... either put Mecole back there or find a way to get Corey Coleman on the roster

Is it just me or does it seem like when we lose it almost looks intentional? I think it's kind of lame to point at the refs but f**k it today I am. The defense did what they needed to do to cover up for the O and ST sh***ing all over the field and got rewarded with a **** up the a**

I’d LOVE to see more Rojo. He’s been on the scratch list. Is he really worse than what we have playing?

I think they just need to admit Clyde was a bad pick and move on

All of this. All day long.

The all-22 is gonna be brutal. Saw this from the stands. Hardman and mvs consistently lined up next to each other. You cannot trot both these guys out at the same time for much longer.

Mahomes was not sharp today but he didn't have much to work with either.

If a rookie with a handful of carries looks like he might be an even swap for a several year veteran...

I think that is a strong argument to try and get the rookie more experience and see what he can grow into.

But just like with Skyy, I'm not expecting a lot his rookie year, barring injuries.

I am not a fan of ceh but I tend to agree on Pacheco. His vision is roouggghhh right now.

But here's one more point to add to the pile. Why in the world do we keep running McKinnon on the goal line? Make that make sense. I don't love a lot of what ceh does but he's our best goal line option by far

Bienemy needs to be up in the booth. If he hasn't got his HC shot being on the field covering his face with Andy's play calls and arguing with the franchise won't do it either.

Mckinnon is the hardest runner we have besides Jones and Burton. Pacheco is decent at shrugging off contact, but he doesnt run with as much power as he should for his size. I'd rather see CEH make catches near the goaline than taking a handoff

WR needs attention

Maybe replace this guy?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4bb466056c.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

No true #1 was my biggest concern after KC traded Tyreek. I think the problem is made worse by the terrible OL play, especially the Tackles. They both suck.

Yeah, you cannot have both below average OTs and below average WRs and expect to have an elite offense, no matter how good your QB is. I actually think the tackles are the bigger issue. Even these scrubs could get open if the line gave Mahomes a bit of time and he ran around back there, he's that good.

This defense is going to force a lot of punts this season.
The offense has potential to score on ANY drive the possess the ball. I will settle for "some dude" that:

(A) can catch the ball 95% of the time it is punted
(B) doesn't get happy feet when other dudes are running at him with the intent to kill
(C) has an awareness where he is on the field/where the endzone is.

Yep. And we saw that in the Zona game. Fix the the Tackles, and many of the issues in the passing game are fixed.

Read some interesting analysis this morning that we went from struggling to beat 2 high last year to this year we have WR's that can't beat man. It is always something

They could have a much better chance if the OL gave them more time. Patrick is running for his life if he doesn't get rid of the ball immediately. Some of the longer ones he completes, he has to throw early. Both of our Tackles are terrible.

Yup, which is why we are seeing tons of blitzers. We need our guys to beat man coverage. In veachs defense he had no idea we’d walk into this season without tyreek until the very last minute, and juju and easing skyy in were great options to complement tyreek. But without tyreek we either need skyy to step in sooner and/or we need another guy who can consistently win quick and short.

I think we need to calm down and realize it’s week 4

What a weird year. Usually it’s the defense that takes time to adjust and has talent deficiency issues.

Now it’s flipped. Brown Jr is the sore spot on the team and the offense is much different.

You guys need to be patient. The entire WR corps minus Hardman is brand new. That’s 4 new WR’s that Patrick has to sync up with.

He doesn’t trust them bc he hasn’t had much time to get chemistry

Let's face it, our OL sucked yesterday, mostly at both OT spots. When you have a whole 58 yards on the ground and your QB has 26 of them, something isn't happening. The other thing to note is most of PMII's 26 yards were due to his running for his life. You can talk about the lack of a WR1 all you want, but if the QB doesn't have time to throw the ball, you might as well have a bunch of stone handed TEs out there.

If you're gonna be hell bent on trying to run the football, you need to get Ronald Jones in there.

And given that I think it's also time for Hardman to be back on KR and PR duties, that tells me that you can go ahead and make Pacheco a gameday inactive as well. Jones, for everything he can't do, CAN run the ball. I still think he's the best pure runner we have.

And with the time you've freed up for Moore, you can try to work him into the passing game more. The WRs just aren't getting the job done.

So I've gotta ask you the same question I asked Rico - what do you base this on?

OBJ appears to have regressed to his early season 2021 form. Trey Smith has not played to nearly the level he played last year. The WR room is a REAL problem and the RBs aren't looking much more productive than they were last season.

So apart from having Mahomes (who played very average football 2 weeks in a row) and Kelce (who dropped a TD and has looked a step slower on his YAC opportunities this year), what gives you the impression this is still an explosive offense?

I just do not see it. At all. This offense is having to work HARD for any progress it makes. Most any big play comes from a scramble drill because nobody is getting open on the designed timing of the plays. The RBs aren't seeing/hitting holes.

What is it this team does well offensively? It's pretty rough sledding.

RoJo is recovering from a brutal Pre-Season, I think his 8 carries did him in.

Everyone wanted a better defense. Everyone bitched about the offense scoring to fast.

Well, it's a capped league meant to make things even. They've spent all these resources on the defense, you got what you wanted.

Here we are.

It's time for Mahomes to stay in the pocket and throw the football. Stop taking off at the first little hint of a pass rusher running behind you.

It's also week 3 in a season you turned over the entire WR core.

Let it marinate for a while.

But here's the problem with your theory - that's the only thing that's working.

When he stands in the pocket and these guys try to get open, they just...don't. Or JJSS half-asses a throw into traffic and it gets deflected for an interception.

Mahomes moving around is creating angles and throwing lanes that don't otherwise exist. And he HAS to do that because when he doesn't, his guys aren't winning reps and the windows aren't there.

At times he feels phantom pressure and scrambles out. But I don't think that's what is happening right now - I think he's scrambling out to change throwing lanes and create plays.

And until his WRs show ANY ability to get open in scheme and on time, that's what he's going to have to keep doing.

Yep, last year we did have the Green Bay game which offensively was even worse than yesterday, but yesterday's game is very concerning for the reasons you mention. This combo of OTs and WRs is not going to generate an elite offense I fear.

Well, he was doing the same thing last year with that WR core.

So we're into 2 different WR groups that aren't getting open?

This play pretty much encapsulates our entire offense yesterday:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This was the second offensive play for KC. They are in 13 personnel and Mahomes has a 2-on-1 with Colts LB #58. Kelce is drawing the coverage, just check it down to CEH. Mahomes instead holds on to the ball and tries to make a play. <a href="https://t.co/t1klORAsqd">pic.twitter.com/t1klORAsqd</a></p>&mdash; Daniel Harms🏈 (@InHarmsWay19) <a href="https://twitter.com/InHarmsWay19/status/1574362858091077634?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 26, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

They got pressure on Patrick with 4 DL. By the time Patrick was set to throw their LB’s dropped to the middle of the field.

It was 7 vs 4 back there all day. An absolute mismatch.

And why wouldn’t it be? The Chiefs can’t run the ball so why have backers run down hill? They don’t even like running so why defend the run?

Patrick clearly wants to go downfield so why defend the flat until they make you? I mean if you can’t run the ball you should at least stretch the LB’s to the outside with swing passes to open up the middle of the field, no? And no screens hardly at all. I think we ran 1 screen?

This was the Bengals part 2. They dropped everybody back in coverage and we had no answer for it bc we couldn’t run the damn ball

How much time do you need? I'm not sure PMII trusts Hardman, either. I'll go along with Watson and Moore are pretty much unproven commodities, but MVS and Juju have been around and should know how to run a scramble drill. Another unanswered question is, where was Fortson yesterday? Put that big body in there instead of gadget Hardman.

It's not just us. I heard on a podcast the unders are 29-17-1. Holy shit.

Pat is gonna have to sack up and "trust" some guys at some point.

Wasn't the reason everyone was excited about this year's 'new approach' to the WR room because nobody but Kelce and Hill were capable of getting open last year?

And I think last year speaks to my qualification anyway. I acknowledged there absolutely were times last season where he was feeling phantom pressure. When he had guys but ran.

I'm not seeing that this year at all. He's having to move to create the throwing lanes and when he doesn't you're looking at a 50/50 ball to WRs that just aren't very good.

I've seen Kelce running open a whole lot the last couple weeks and Mahomes just hasn't seen him. I know that's gonna happen sometimes but it's just unusual. Those guys are usually connected like the worm things in the upside down in Stranger Things.

Yeah, I just don't agree. Everytime we see him "creating lanes" there's guys open.

The run around and make plays is all great, when it's needed. I don't believe it is.

I'm not in panic mode, i feel like 90 percent of our problems were just coming out flat yesterday. Normally average teams over come the issues we had.

If he trusts OBJ, he'll get killed. Fix the pass protection, and he will find the open WR's.

I didn’t notice it until I started seeing games live. My sense is the all-22 is also showing things the same way. But mahomes’ wizardry in the pocket this year is next level. And it’s a shame it’s wasted because guys just aren’t getting open. The biggest cluster was how often mvs runs hip to hip next to mecole and it doesn’t seem to be opening up anything.

Now… mahomes hasn’t been the most accurate this year and yesterday in particular he was putting too many passes behind his WRs. But many of those times it’s because he’s been forced to throw through an abnormal platform.

Wizardy in the pocket? He's running around when he doesn't need to.

Yeah, his ball placement was rough yesterday.

But like you said - unless you're in the stands or watching all-22, just watching the QB doesn't give you a complete understanding of the issue here.

The WRs aren't getting open. It's a problem.

I wish we had Kareem Hunt back. Or someone like him. Not just to improve our running game but to give us a big weapon out of the backfield in the passing game. It feels like we've really really missed that since he kicked a bitch. That was supposed to be Clyde's strength and it's why so many including myself were excited about drafting him. But we've barely seen a glimpse of it.

It looks like a QB who doesn't trust the offense.

Yeah I agree. Mahomes has been waiting in the pocket alot this year, more than usual. He’s really trusting his line. Even when pressure comes he continues to stay in the pocket more than usual

I don’t have a problem with that but it limits some of that spontaneous “Mahomes magic.”

Doesn’t trust his OL and has no chemistry with his new receivers. We saw it in preseason when Mahomes overthrew a wide open MVS vs Washington.

We saw it again in Indy.

Yeah, he had MVS running wide open for a TD.

You can't miss those throws.

It's time for the Chiefs (and the ****ing fans) to start taking the WR position seriously. Quit throwing ****ing spare parts at this thing and invest in the damn position.

3 Years ago this wasn't even a conversation. Somewhere along the way the Chiefs and the fans convinced themselves that the GB/Aaron Rodgers model was the way to go. WTF.

Two 2nd round picks isn't "spare parts".

You can't invest high picks every where.

But it's also why you don't waste these on a ****ing RB.

Agreed - the amount of the investment hasn't been unreasonable (not like when we went 10 years without spending a pick on the 1st or 2nd day on off-ball linebackers).

But we have Mecole Hardman and MEH instead of Terry McLaurin and Tee Higgins. It hasn't been a plan problem - it's been an execution issue.

I think you're overreacting on Skyy Moore.

Listen, we all knew and said consistently that there would be "growing pains" with the rookies. But you guys simply don't think growing pains translate to losses. They do. We were talking about the growing pains being in the secondary, but turns out it was special teams rookies that cost us with Moore and Pacheco. Ride with rookies, and they will cost you games sometimes.

Moore, prior to this game, consistently showed good hands and decision-making in punt returns. Today's performance doesn't change that unless he just melts down in the face of his mistakes. Hardman is great for kickoff returns because there's no decision-making to be made, but he has a history of failing us on punt returns, making bad decisions or getting himself clocked. I have a shorter leash on Pacheco's kick returning, however, because Hardman does it well enough. Moore on punt returns is harder to duplicate.

We need to differentiate between the problems that are flukey, and the problems that are longer lasting.

I'm fine with booting Ammendola, but there's no Butker out there; whoever we sign is going to be at least the 33rd best kicker in the NFL. Ammendola is not going to cost us a Super Bowl, Rashad Fenton will. Moore screwing up a punt in Week 3 isn't going to cost us a Super Bowl, Andrew Wylie will. Chris Jones talking smack isn't going to cost us a Super Bowl, Marques Valdez-Scantling will.

The Chiefs have a protection issue, a receiving issue, and a Fenton issue. These are the things that will cost us a Super Bowl. Not Ammendola (although, fine: replace him).

Do the Chiefs have an answer for the protection issue? Call me crazy, but I think Lucas Niang is more than just a figment of my imagination. I think by Week 12 he could be the answer at RT. But who knows, maybe Wenogho is a better finger to put in the dam than Wylie.

Do the Chiefs have an answer for the receiving issue? We can't know that yet, because Moore/MVS/Watson/Schuster need more weeks in the offense. We'll have a better idea by Week 8.

Do the Chiefs have an answer for Fenton? I think they do, and that's putting him 4th on the depth chart when McDuffie returns.