Chris Simms: "JuJu's Injury is Patrick Mahomes Fault"
 

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Around the 0:30 and 3:30 mark. This is quite a wild take from Chris Simms, victim blaming Mahomes for throwing to the open receiver.

That’s a pretty low blow. That being said, mahomes did hang juju a little out to dry.

The doesn’t stop the excuse circus for what Cisco did and I still can’t believe all the BS around it. The new narrative is that juju was leading with his helmet. As if in a split second he made a conscious decision to truck Cisco.

In isolation it would be fine except he hit like this 3 times which means the guy is more interested in hit sticking defenseless receivers vs making an actual play on the ball

Doc may have went a little too far and removed some of Simm's brain cells along with his spleen.

Simms is special needs.

I used to feel sorry for Chris Simms whenever a smug douche like Florio would call him stupid.

But I see why they do it now, because as smart as he can be sometimes, he’s just as capable of being a ****ing dumbass of the highest order

That's a ridiculous take. If you want to see a hospital pass, look at what Peyton Manning used to do to his slot receivers.

It's plainly obvious he wasn't trying to actually tackle anybody. Look at his arms in this photo of the hit on MVS.

https://external.fdsm1-1.fna.fbcdn.n..._nc_sid=a349d5

EDIT: Just realized Cisco isn't in this picture (I think he's #23). Weird.

I mean, it's partially true. The penalty for defenseless receiver didn't even exist until a few years ago, and it's true that QBs should be aware when they're leading the receiver into a big hit.

It happens sometimes, and the hit definitely should have been penalized. But Pat DOES need to be a little more careful there.

He's not wrong. Mahomes has to see that safety waiting to blow up his receiver. Mahomes is usually great about knowing where the defenders are and not setting his receiver up for a hit but he's not perfect. Watching the replay the first time, I thought the same thing.

Man from the All 22 angle right as Patrick threw the ball…Juju looks open with some space in front of him.

It closed fast but damn.

Not gonna lie, it crossed my mind on both of his throws to JuJu and MVS

The safety was engaged with another receiver at the point Pat threw the ball.

Bullshit. The take is absolute lunacy as is yours

Exactly. He threw to a WIDE OPEN receiver in NFL terms. How the **** did he lead him to get hit?

I don't believe this to be the case, but Mahomes did say he felt bad for leading Juju into that hit with the pass he threw. I thought that was pretty awesome of him, and indicated that protecting his receivers is part of his mental calculation.

I think this OP's thread title is a little misleading.

Simms is saying this is normal football and it was a normal hard hit. He's saying Cisco isn't to blame and if it's anyone's fault it's Mahomes for where he put the ball by throwing into a tight window.

It's a little different than just saying, "JuJu got hurt because of Mahomes."

When you look at the replay in slo-mo, it validates Simms' point. But I wouldn't go so far as to call it Mahomes' fault. It was just a freak play that happened, that's all there is to it. JuJu didn't have time to look at the safety closing in. Everything happened so fast. When Pat threw the ball, Cisco was a couple of yards distance. Nobody could've anticipated that play to turn as violent as it did.

The safety made a good play off the deeper WR there, but he did lead him into some danger. It happens I guess, but I would imagine even Pat would say he has some blame there.

I like Simms but this is perhaps his dumbest take. Just total f**king bull****. F**k Cisco as well.

I didn't put the JJSS injury on PM.

He did hang MVS out, though. That one was a throw that's gonna get your WR blasted more often than it doesn't; high and away from his body.

Pat usually never throws hospital passes. And at the time of release, Juju is open. If Cisco stuck him in the body are on the ball, I wouldn't be upset with the play. But the dude aimed for the shoulder/head, and then lead with his helmet on the MVS hit.

**** Cisco.

It wasn't really a tight window though. Look at the screenshot Run posted - the player that made the hit was actually engaged with another receiver at the point the ball was thrown.

The MVS ball I think was a hospital ball but I don’t think any QB sees that defender or doesn’t throw that ball to juju .

Correct take. But then people can't shit their pants in anger and talk about how Simms is a douchebag just one week after praising his analysis when he said something they liked about our beloved Chiefs and/or PMII.

It was a tight enough window that it ended with JuJu getting a concussion?

The defender made a really good play to get off of his assignment quickly. Mahomes had no way of knowing he was going to do it that fast. Again, look at the screenshot. There's NO WAY this is on Mahomes.

No, you were correct, that is Cisco. His number is 5.

Screen shots are very dubious to use for this. I don't care for them TBH. Screenshots of a moving environment just don't tell us much.

Oh okay. I'm having a morning. Nothing like a Thursday that feels like a Monday. I hate it when work interferes with my CP time.

Clickbait

Meh, I normally enjoying watching Simms and his takes. I don't agree with him here, though. And didn't someone suggest that Cisco is known for this? Hell, on the shot he put on MVS he wasn't even using his arms. Some players play dirty. I don't need to hear excuses for that.

I still wouldn’t mind if Cisco got AIDS from being brutally raped by a rhino

I dont think thats true.

Simms continues off his initial point by saying "you couldn't throw that ball 20 years ago because defenders would light that player up" and implying that "QBs nowadays get away with making 'bad throws' that lead recievers defenseless and then look for the flag".

He's implying that QBs like Mahomes can get away with hospital balls and look for the flag, when Mahomes usually does none of these things. Most of his throws are to recievers who aren't going to take massive contact after the catch. The only examples I can think of are the MVS throw in that same game and the Tyreek throw in the AFC Divisional against the Texans where he got lit up. Very few cases.

He really drug Mahomes through the mud in this segment, for seemingly no good reason.

So then my point stands. Look at his arms, he's making no attempt to tackle. He's just flying in there looking to hurt somebody.

Do Rhino's carry AIDS?

Fiiiiiiiine, I'll wear a condom.

Y'all take the fun out of everything.

Yeah, the safety just made a great play to close in fast, which happens quickly in the NFL.

If QBs stopped throwing to guys who are that open, scoring league-wide would be cut in half.

You were correct the 1st time. Cisco is #5

Good thinking, you don't want to get AIDS again!

He's obviously not interest in tackling MVS like his teammate is (look at his arms too).

Dude! I only told you because you...uh...had a special interest in the matter.

So it should've ended with you and O.City, dammit! Why you gotta be putting it out there in public like that?

This isn't exactly a controversial take, since Mahomes himself took some of the blame:

Link: https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/2022...r-hit-week-10/

What did you expect Mahomes to say? He's the ultimate team player and leader. Of course he's going to say that.

That's totally on me, I'm really sorry. But hey, at least I didn't mention the herpes!

If I could replace Cisco with Ubeja during that coyote encounter, I would

Damn. So now Simms also needs to get rhino rape AIDS.

Be careful out there, folks. There seems to be a lot of that going around these days

Perhaps the receivers could consider getting some damn separation?

FAX

Ya know, TBFOH, any pass to a WR in today's ** Faster and Harder Hitting NFL** Think about it, is/could be considered leading the WR into harms way! Defenders are smarter, see things quicker than before. The react, break away at a / the split second before a pass and with faster closing speeds, thus leaving all receivers in harms way each time a team passes the ball!

It's difficult to be perfect on every throw.

Also a good point.

20 years ago a guy like Steve Atwater doesn't get within 5 yards of JJSS at the catch point because he's a lumbering ox of a safety.

DBs these days are bigger, strong and faster than they've ever been. At least relative to their size. You had 'bigger' safeties years ago, but they weren't getting in position to make that hit. As you noted, when those guys were on the field, your windows were much bigger.

Now you've got guys who can deliver 90% of the punch those old school safeties did but at 200% the range.

And it's not like the fields have gotten bigger - the windows have just gotten smaller.

Defenders tackle all the time by throwing shoulders and not wrapping up.

It's not correct. That wasn't a "tight window" throw. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Juju was WIDE OPEN and Cisco was engaged with another WR. He bounced off and hit Juju with a cheap shot.

Mahomes literally guided a pass to be slightly behind Hill in Super Bowl 54 to keep him from getting decapitated, but Hill reached back and bobbled the ball which led to an interception

Damned if you do and damned if you don’t

Absolutely spot on take

Doesn't make it right.

We'd score 18 PPG if he doesn't throw passes to receivers that NFL wide open...sorry it's true that he should throw that pass 100 out of 100 times

He made a good play.

Doesn't make it wrong either unless they're going helmet to helmet or missing the tackle.

Yeah Juju is wide-open, you throw the ball to him.

And let's just say that Cisco wasn't doing anything malicious and it was a freak accident. Then that's it. There is no story here, it's just a freak play and you move on. But Simms decided instead to make the story about Mahomes decision to throw the ball to a wide-open receiver with multiple yards of separation. He literally places the blame on Mahomes.

I thought he was above clickbait but this is obviously what he wanted. Absolutely pathetic.

More times than not when you launch yourself like that, it ends up with one of those two things taking place.

It's just plain bad football.

And sometimes it's good to go for the big hit and lead with your shoulder. If your a DB and see an opportunity to make a big hit that dislodges the ball, you should take it. That's just football at that point.

The point of the OP was that Chris Simms is saying Juju is hurt due to Mahomes. That's somewhat contrary to the actual segment, which seemed to me to be more defending against blaming Cisco for a dirty hit. He claimed that Cisco even let up and didn't truck straight through Juju. And then said "IF" anyone is to blame than Mahomes kinda led him. More of an observation than assigning fault. But he also said its just a football play, not dirty and no one did anything wrong per se.

10/10 times if a player on the Chiefs landed a shot like that this whole board argue to their deathbeds it was a clean solid tackle and we'd be blaming the receiver for lowering his helmet before getting hit.

Why are you trolling?

Juju couldn't really do anything about it. It was just an unfortunate play. Cisco wasn't trying to be dirty. He was crouched over and even turned away to brace himself and just trying to make a big hit. Just so happened that Juju was bent over and their helmets collided.

It should have been a penalty but there was nothing dirty or cheap about it at all.

That's what the replay looked like.

We haven't debated this enough, more hot takes pls.

I can agree with this.

Justin Reid made a good point, though.

He's been in the league 5 years - never been penalized for helmet to helmet contact. And he's a formidable hitter.

There's a way to hit guys hard and not be dirty. Honestly, I think Cisco managed it (maybe through blind, dumb luck) against MVS. I know Thornhill did it against Evans.

But the shot on JJSS was a dirty hit and it was a conscious decision by Cisco that put them both in that situation.

I’m going to go ahead and put a motion in saying we add “rhino rape AIDS” to the CP lexicon.

It was Andy Reid's fault for not running the ball more.

And JuJu mom's fault for taking him to practice all those times when he was younger.

I did find that to be an interesting tidbit from Reid. Granted, doesn’t necessarily mean he's never been involved in a hit like that, given not even Cisco was penalized.

I mean unless Cisco got down on his knees, how low can you expect him to go in that situation?

And Thornhill's hit that was totally clean WAS penalized.

No, it's not a perfect proxy, but I think over large numbers it means something. Cisco isn't going to get any benefit of the doubt going forward. I'm betting he sees an unnecessary roughness flag in the next 2-3 weeks and it's going to be in part because of the attention surrounding those 2 hits.

This. Nobody has taken the grassy knoll into account yet.

He has a helmet to helmet hit on YouTube, the difference is that it's on a runner not on a pass catcher on a bang bang play.

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He drove up at impact. Don't do that.

Drive through and your head goes across his body. You blast the shit out of him and you likely still separate him from the ball without going helmet to helmet.

But as he was delivering the hit, he launched himself up into JJSS and that's why he got into his helmet.

It's an issue where different technique takes an accident off the table. Think of it like a goalie stopping a deflected shot in hockey. Those guys don't see the deflection and react to it, it's WAY too fast. But if they stay square to the shooter, keep the stick on the ice and do all that other goalie shit in a technically correct way, their body is going to naturally be in a position to stop the shot.

Here Cisco's technique wasn't sound and because of it he drove up and through JJSS's helmet. Was it 'intentional' - I mean, hitting him in the helmet wasn't, no. But was driving up and making it a foregone conclusion a volitional act? Hell yes it was. He was the direct cause of an avoidable injury.

That's a dirty play, IMO.

See, this! I know 1st hand! Every damn thing my kids do wrong always comes back to me, somehow!

(ROYC75 is finally happy that some other poor bastard is in the same boat as he Is!)

Yeah, that 2nd hit definitely shed some light on the possible intent of the first one.

And I try to watch these plays in real time and not disect frame by frame, thinking shit happens so quickly and there are split second decisions, etc..... and then Toney is out there adjusting his gloves mid-route before high-pointing a pass along the sidelines, so WTF do I know about how these guys can slow down the game.

Yeah, the irony of it being that I think the intent behind the 2nd hit was actually worse than the intent behind the first.

The 2nd hit was clearly him trying to blow MVS apart and giving no ****s as to how he went about doing it. It just so happened that MVS was high enough that Cisco's point of impact was below his shoulder and thus he didn't get into his head.

But both of them were plays where he was launching himself up at contact. And the NFL's entire purpose in taking 'malice' out of the equation when discussing these penalties was to get guys to stop doing that shit. The league made it clear that they don't CARE if you intend to injure the guy - just don't do the things that make that injury more likely, chief among them is launching yourself up towards the head/shoulder area.

There's a reason the rule was written like it was. The league doesn't want that kind of tackle in the game.

And yet Cisco got away with two of them.

They'll be watching him closely.