Late game FG attempt
 

Andy needs to quit using old school thinking in these situations. Going for the fg attempt there to tie, just not the right choice. Even without hindsight, it was to tie so you're giving the Bengals the ball back.

Don't ever take the ball out of Mahomes hands there. You have an easy way out even if he fails....."well we live and die with Pat so"......

The goal of that drive should have been to either tie it with less than 10 seconds to go or win it in similar fashion with like 30 seconds left.

Yea it was stupid, they should have called a run on the 3rd down knowing it was 4 down territory.

My dad said this in real time while we were watching.

Run it, get a yard or two at worst then go for it on 4th. They dropped out so you should get the first easily.

No idea why they didn't go for it.

Andy forgets that he has the best quarterback in the world far too often for my liking.

I can stomach losses when Pat fails.

I cant stomach them when we lose because of a missed field goal and then the defense never gets him the ball back.

Put the game on 15.

I saw the All 22 if the Burrow to Higgins that sealed the game...Williams has great coverage and gets his hand in, it's a perfect throw.

the putrid thing to think about is if it was 4th and 5 at the 20 with 2 minutes left, andy makes the same decision :shake:

Yea he was understandably very frustrated/upset after the play.

No....Williams sucks according to most people here who don't know shit about decent coverage.

Correct. The sack on third down was the killer.

We needed to make sure it would be (at worst) a reasonable 4th down.

The clock was working against us with a field goal to tie it. There was a zero percent chance that the Bengals wouldn’t get at least a field goal with 3 minutes left.

I might understand if it was 4th and 12 from the 25 yard line. Then ok, yeah, kick the FG. But doing a 55 yarder? I know Butker is good, but Mahomes is gooder.

Yeah, there's just little different between making a FG and still needing a defensive stop with 3 minutes left, missing a FG and needing to make a defensive stop (but sooner) and not converting on 4th down.

The only 'struggle' for the Bengals in the first case is a few additional first downs and making a FG to win. Might as well take your chances and go for it.

Seemed like a decision Staley would make... be aggressive and go for it on 4th downs earlier in the game because you're not staring the L in the face, then go conservative when you really need to be aggressive.

Don't know what the analytics say in that case.

As for the FG attempt, I completely agree that it should've been 4 down territory.

That was way too long of a kick to take the ball out of Pat's hands.

How close was Danna to disrupting Burrow when he pulled up?

The replays I saw looked like he could’ve gotten there or at least not allowed Burrow to get much on it.

I'm starting to think Andy has a Bengals Block. If that game had been against the Raiders, he goes for it instead of trying to tie.

Once that roughing the passer penalty happens....our DEs were scared to even breathe on Burrow. You don't want to have a 3rd and 11 at the end of the game end with a 1st down because the refs decided you were to rough on him.

I want to start by saying “I agree, we should have went for it.”

However I also kind of get it. I think Andy hoped we could get one more offensive possession. What he didn’t want was to lose the game with burrow running out the clock on a go ahead drive. I think we kicked so we can get the ball out of possession moreso than being afraid to go for it. If we make the FG and tie it, I think we could have gotten the ball back.

Love kelce to death but that fumble put Andy Reid in a horrible spot. And he made the worse of a lose lose situation. Hindsight is 20/20 but I think if we go for the TD, IF we get a td we give cincy the ball back with 2 minutes and they score just as easily as they did the rest of the game.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bengals?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Bengals</a> <br><br>The 3rd down throw from Burrow to close out the game…<br><br>Man-coverage underneath. Higgins on the slant route. Can see the ball location here. <a href="https://t.co/fkVJwRu6OF">pic.twitter.com/fkVJwRu6OF</a></p>&mdash; Matt Bowen (@MattBowen41) <a href="https://twitter.com/MattBowen41/status/1599772668852465669?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 5, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I don't disagree in theory, but I think yesterdays decision had more to do with #15s gimpy foot after the 3rd down play.

I also think we passed on 3rd down because we were trying to score as quick as possible. The whole drive felt like we rushed through it even though it was so slow developing. Another reason why the timing of the fumble hurt us in so many ways

It's especially frustrating because the Chiefs have a shaky defense. But Andy still gets super conservative in these situations, as if the defense is good enough to get the job done. He apparently trusts the defense more than his offense, which is strange.

Butker's done it plenty of times in the past for us so it makes sense, but it's one of those if it works then you don't hear about it. 55 yard field goal isn't a lock, especially in an outdoor stadium, but that's every field goal, it'll either go in or it won't. Basing the game and last drive on it was an issue, if it was a miss before half time then it wouldn't have received the same attention.

I believe that if you play for Field Goals, you play to lose the game, especially in this day and age in the NFL. Andy has always been overly conservative and has never truly been relentless, and attacking all the time. When we won the Super Bowl, Andy would always tell Patrick to keep firing. We need that mentality, let Patrick go crazy and take the good with the bad, rather then losing it conservatively in a non-conservative NFL.

It's not just Andy, it's the whole team.

The Bengals are in our heads as much as we are in the heads of the Chargers. They piss down their legs every single time they have a shot to beat us, just like we do against Cincy.

They have got to break out of that mindset of self fulfilling prophecy.

I don’t think we were playing for FGs. I think we were playing to get the ball back. Credit to the bengals D it took us WAY too long to get to FG range. If we move the ball much quicker a quick FG would’ve been a great play.

If Pat doesn't come up gimpy I wonder if Andy's decision would have been different?

Well that was dumb. They couldn't stop the Bengals all day. Why would they think that would suddenly change?

That was an amazing throw. ****.

Besides Andy, nobody on the planet could have agreed with that.

In hindsight, it would be tough to run the clock down on the Bengals. We had over 3 minutes with a short field. They had all three timeouts. They were always going to get the ball back; the only question is, with how much time remaining?

Not sure what Mike Danna was looking at. He could have disrupted that play with a hit on Burrow. Would have been split second but may have been enough.

I'm amazed there's only one thread about this. It was an astonishingly bad call. Even if you make the FG, all you've done is tie and you're putting it on a defense that only once all game actually kept them from going on a long drive.

WTF fat man?

we've seen brady ice the game against us so many times in the same manner, it's shocking we didn't elect to give mahomes a chance to do the same

just sickening

you hope this never happens again

The only explanation that would make any sense whatsoever is if they thought Mahomes wasn't physically able. Which would just be really shitty luck.

Who ever had last possession was going to win the game. Reid needed to run the ball to milk the clock. Not throw it twice for incomplete passes, stopping the clock, and then missing the FG

The goal should have been to go score a TD because then only a TD beats you no matter how much time you give them.

Humbling before a stretch of tomato can lookalikes, could be good!

Mahomes missed a WIDE OPEN mckinnon underneath. I was yelling for him to throw it to him for an easy 1st down conversion. But he couldn't hear me thru the tv.

If we make the field goal, then cincy will be more motivated to the attack because they have to score. And our defense can see how it’s going and “gift” them big yards in a pinch. I would guess Andy wanted us to score within 5 minutes. But we dragged out that possession and that hurt us. Once we got close to 3 minutes we hit no man’s land.

Again I would have went for it. But by your logic why would we want cincy to have last possession with almost no shot for us to get the ball back?

Because we would have the lead, by 4 and they have to go score a TD not kick a fg.

As opposed to kicking a FG just to tie and giving the Bengals more than enough time to at least get a FG themselves.

Yea, I'm going for that 4th down every single time.

Per next gen stats he was never more than 2 yards from every WR he covered yesterday.

Burrow is just Brady like with his pocket presence and accuracy. That last throw to beat us was perfect.

Karlaftis was so close to tipping it and Williams was right there with great coverage.

Sometimes pure talent just beats you

Honestly, I think it was very poor situational awareness.

In general this theory makes sense. However the current situation dictated the more aggressive approach. This is not hindsight, you could feel it in the game, live!

Everyone in that stadium and most of us at home knew that even if that FG was good, we were not going to win. Tying that game up with three minutes left to an offense that had moved up and down the field at will would 100% be able to get into FG range and put us away.

The only real shot we had against this particular team in that particular moment was to score a TD, take a little more time off the clock and then hope our D could keep them out of the end zone. Which was possible as we had done it in this game earlier.

Attempting that Field Goal was a death sentence either way. You knew it when it happened.

I think a few others were thinking/saying this as well...

Cincy was likely going to have the last possession anyway after that drive… with their ability to move the ball and control the clock… so it would have been better to force them to get a TD to win versus only needing a FG.

That’s the stupidity of Andy Reid’s decision… besides choosing Butker/Toub’s special teams unit over Mahomes, even a made FG there doesn’t put the Chiefs in a solid position to win.

They had a couple slant throws that just missed getting knocked down.

Goddamn this was just a good play. Williams was all over Higgins. Look how close Karlaftis was from tipping that ball? And Danna was right in Burrow’s face as he threw the ball.

The ball had to be placed where it was and he did it. Sometimes you just tip the cap bc it’s hard to see many defenses defending that.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bengals?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Bengals</a> <br><br>The 3rd down throw from Burrow to close out the game…<br><br>Man-coverage underneath. Higgins on the slant route. Can see the ball location here. <a href="https://t.co/fkVJwRu6OF">pic.twitter.com/fkVJwRu6OF</a></p>&mdash; Matt Bowen (@MattBowen41) <a href="https://twitter.com/MattBowen41/status/1599772668852465669?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 5, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

And further, you know you’re going for it on 4th when you’re calling your play for 3rd down.

Worst thing you can do is take a sack and make 4th down a decision again.

Perfect time to run the ball, kill more clock, and catch the Bengals expecting a pass.

Yup, we just can't catch a break when we play these ****s.

Assuming we score a TD. And if we go for the TD we practically guarantee cincy touches the ball last where at least in a fg scenario you leave some reasonable hope to get one last offensive possession. The way our defense played yesterday I trusted them to give up a score quickly than I would trust them to protect a 4 point lead with plenty of time left.

And of course Frank Clark was doing his trademark spin around to nowhere move on that play.

Even if you get the ball back, it's gonna be with little time and no time outs. YOu can't continue to work in that situation.

Go score a TD then let your defense play.

I’m with you. I’m just pointing out that the alternative isn’t nearly as rosy as everyone makes it out to be. If we score a td I believe we give up an easy bengals td and we never see the ball again. We probably lose that way too.

brady and bill had the art of the of the clock-killing clutch drive mastered

i don't think i've seen the chiefs pull it off once with mahomes

we are good at scoring in one minute at the end of a game, not seven

this is the next step for mahomes i feel, on our path to become a dynasty...become master of the slow blade

When it's been shown most of the game that the D couldn't get Cincy off the field, it was obvious that it was a four down scenario.

Honestly, on that play, Danna should have held onto the G.

Feels blasphemous to say, but there’s a reason Brady has had so much success despite having one of the most boring highlight reels you’ll ever see.

The key for the Chiefs is to build up the DL to help out the back 7 (which I feel really good about still) and learn to take what’s there on offense from time to time. Read the situation and react appropriately.

Mahomes can do it. I have faith. It’s going to be epic and excruciating for the opposition. A truly helpless feeling watching Mahomes drain clock in key situations while moving down for the game winning score.

Goddamnit. You can’t fault Josh Williams here. Look at this right as the ball was caught. He’s right in his hip pocket and his long ass arm is over the middle.

The ball skimmed the top of his wrist as it was caught. You can’t ask for better coverage than that.

Even scoring a TD, no one is painting a rosy picture.

Obviously it would improve our chances greatly to have a 4 point margin than expect our D to protect a tie.

A tie at that point was 100% a loss. A TD at that point was still no certainty but definitely improved our chances.

Missed Field Goal = LOSS

Made Field Goal = LOSS

TD = A chance to win. Those were the options at that point.

Anyone blaming him on that is an idiot. He did as well as you could hope for (plus he’s a rookie).

I still feel great about our corners. I think we’ll upgrade over Thornhill in the draft. Still have Bolton and Gay. Chenal has upside.

Fix the DL this offseason and the defense will be good. Easier said than done though.

Scoring a TD while bleeding the clock is the ideal.

Andy needs to realize that KC is not the only team in the league where playing it safe is a horrible idea. Cincinnati and Buffalo at least are two teams you take chances against. We have the best QB in the league and I feel more comfortable with putting a chance to win it in his hands vs trying to tie on a 55 yard FG.

Yup. Sometimes there is just nothing a defender can do. Credit where credit is due on that throw.

Yep, that’s one Bienemy or Reid, 3rd down should be running the ball, with idea you’re going for it on 4th. I’d take my chances running it 2 Tim’s in a row, in that scenario

Hence, pressures don't mean shit unless you finish and get the sack.

Agree to disagree.

We can give up a quick score in a tie game. Play super aggressive and gamble, and worst case they get a really quick score. We saw it play out differently because with a miss cincy ended up sitting on the ball. But with a make It is the only scenario where you give our offense a reasonable shot at getting a last possession.

The way our defense was playing I think that TD chance to win was pretty low % too.

I would have preferred the mindset of it being 4 down territory there. If a defense can stop this offense from getting 10 yards in 4 plays, they deserve to win and the Chiefs deserve to lose. Really that simple.

Asked by a reporter if a potential injury to Mahomes’ foot impacted his decision to take the offense off the field, Reid was direct.

“No. I thought we had a chance to make the field goal,” said Reid, before reiterating his quarterback’s status. “He’s OK. He’s all right.”

Said the exact same thing myself

I thought so as well. I think Andy goes for it if Pat is healthy.

So, the solution is to take the ball out of Mahomes' hand on third down? Am I reading that correctly.

It was the right call

I know Butker is one of the best in the league but a 55 yarder isn't great odds for anyone and even if he hits it, you're giving the ball back to Burrow with 3 minutes left. In that scenario I'm keeping Mahomes and company on the field and going for it on 4th and 5. If its 4th & 8 or longer I am probably okay with the decision to kick the field goal, I'm just very confident in the offense converting when it's 5 or less for the first down.

The combination of the time left and facing a very good QB and offense just makes the decision a little bit puzzling to me. If the roles were switched and it was the Bengals driving down by 3, wouldn't you be happy that Cincy was taking their young stud QB off the field to attempt a long ass field goal to only tie the game?

Roles reversed I cheer if Burrow leaves field to kick a FG.

That's usually if you know if it's the right thing to do honestly...if it strikes fear or not in the opposing teams hearts.

There is an epidemic of playing not to lose in the NFL, although it is getting better.

There are teams you can utilize the play not to lose strategy. Cincinnati is not one of them. They are very capable of scoring, especially against this defense. You have to treat teams like that as you would KC. It’s why you see those teams making head scratching decisions as FGs usually kill you against KC. Heck even that 4th down play that Dunlap sniffed out probably isn’t attempted against lesser teams.

Such a brain dead decision and one I couldn’t believe he was making in real time…you just knew Butker was gonna miss it too…

No other coach in the world with an elite QB is making that decision…esp. with a defense that was just not getting a stop. Sam McDowell made a good point, I’m paraphrasing but it was basically how do you think Cindy felt seeing Mahomes ran off the field? There ya go…

Andy gonna Andy…

Andy's clock management hasn't bitten us in the playoffs yet.

Andy's clock management has been impeccable since he's been a Chief.

That's a decade old gripe you've got there.

What the **** are you talking about? If KC goes for it and eventually scores a TD, there’s a good chance they leave about a minute on the clock and cincinatti with zero timeouts.

This was my thinking in the game thread; when the Chiefs got the ball, I had a feeling it was the last time they would touch the ball. The pass on 3rd down and the 4th down kick made absolutely no sense.

From that field position, I was expecting the Chiefs to get a few more first downs, force the Bengals to use their timeouts and score the go ahead TD with about 35 seconds left.

Playing scared to lose; when you let what you fear guide your decisions, you are choosing what you fear.

I'm including down and distance management. That decision with that clock time and those two QBs was the wrong one. Andy has gotten better on 4th down certainly, like that great call with Henne against the Browns. But like to see him more aggressive against the good offenses.