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Tight End
I think everyone agrees the biggest priorities for the off season are DL, T, and WR in some order so just taking the conversation in a slightly different direction.
The Chiefs have played a lot of 12 and 13 personnel this year, and it has generally been very effective. Next year its Fortson's last cheap year, Gray will be going into year 3. How would you feel if the Chiefs took a tight end in the 1st or 2nd round? Are there any tight end prospects you like in the top half of the draft? What about free agents? |
**** no. This team has bigger needs than another TE.
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nah, we've got THREE.
None of them are Kelce, but nobody you could draft will be either. It's probably our most stacked position. |
I loved what I saw from Matt Bushman in preseason. Big guy who runs a 4.53 40. He could be a nice weapon next year
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Do you really think Kelce/Fortson/Gray is more of a stacked group than JJSS/MVS/Toney/Hardman/Moore/Watson? Just to be clear, I would definitely lose my shit if they drafted a 1st round TE, but maybe they do need to think investing in another one somewhere in the coming draft. |
I've been on board grabbing one with one of our two 4ths. Probably would have considered the 3rd before they traded for Toney.
I'm not overly enamored with Gray. He's a functional 2nd TE but would you trust him to ever truly take over for Kelce? I don't. He's kind of a complimentary H-back type. The same goes for Fortson. Fortson has a role, but he's not built to be an every-down TE. He's mostly a big WR that works in goal-line situations well and the occasional wheel. If GOD FORBID, Kelce ever got knicked, we'd be gasping for air. I'm not saying that you try to stack the position, but another modest investment on a true TE would probably be smart. There are a few nice options out there this year IMO. As for Bushman, he was released with an injury designation so I'm thinking that's a moot point. |
I brought him up in another thread. And I thought it was too much of a luxury then, and even more so after watching the bengals run it down our throats. But Darnell Washington is a freak. And he would be amazing with us. Especially as a blocker
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I'm similarly indifferent on Gray. I thought even a 5th was generous and while he's probably justified that he's not been much more imo. He really hasn't got the juice or wiggle that I think they anticipated. Probably become a slightly better blocker though, but the idea our TE room is set seems a bit optimistic. |
I wouldn’t do this but Darnell Washington is intriguing to me, especially if we draft a LT replacement for OBJ. This would never happen bc we are a pass first team and Darnell probably fits someone like the titans better. Our line plus TE would be huge and have a big advantage in run blocking and short yardage. Musgrave in the 4th is interesting.
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Ha… just saw that cbs mocked Darnell to us
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/...ears-over/amp/ Round 1 - Pick 1 Bryce Young QB ALABAMA • JR • 6'0" / 194 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Houston PROSPECT RNK 2nd POSITION RNK 1st Bryce Young might be historically undersized by successful NFL QB standards, but we don't care. He's been that good for Alabama, dragging that team to victory just about every week. And he's doing it with none of the playmakers who made life so much easier for Tua Tagovailoa and Mac Jones in previous years. Round 1 - Pick 2 Jalen Carter DL GEORGIA • JR • 6'3" / 300 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Chicago PROSPECT RNK 3rd POSITION RNK 1st The Bears appear to be a team headed in the right direction, in large part because they have found their franchise QB in Justin Fields. But there's a lot of work to do on the other side of the ball after moving on from Robert Quinn and Roquan Smith. Both Jalen Carter and Will Anderson Jr. could be options here, and both are layup selections. From Denver Broncos Round 1 - Pick 3 Will Anderson Jr. EDGE ALABAMA • JR • 6'4" / 243 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Seattle PROSPECT RNK 1st POSITION RNK 1st The Geno Smith "I didn't write back" storyline is one of the best of the 2022 season, but it shouldn't obscure the fact that Seattle's defense is a hot mess. And thanks to the Broncos trade, they'll be able to address that side of the ball very early in the draft. Whether it's Jalen Carter or Will Anderson Jr., they'll be arguably the best player on Seattle's defense the moment they step on the field. Round 1 - Pick 4 Myles Murphy DL CLEMSON • JR • 6'5" / 275 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Arizona PROSPECT RNK 5th POSITION RNK 2nd Murphy won't be 21 until next spring and while we'd like to see him play with more consistency ... he won't be 21 until next spring. On top of that, when he's on, he's hard to stop, which makes him such an interesting prospect. Round 1 - Pick 5 Will Levis QB KENTUCKY • SR • 6'3" / 232 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Indianapolis PROSPECT RNK 10th POSITION RNK 1st Since Andrew Luck's retirement, the Colts have had little success turning to QBs nearing the end of their careers, and it's safe to assume that owner Jim Irsay will be looking for the team's next face of the franchise. Levis, who definitely looks the part, has been plagued by injuries and poor play all season. That said, NFL teams love how he projects to the next level but he'll be a controversial talking point for the next six months. Round 1 - Pick 6 Tyree Wilson EDGE TEXAS TECH • SR • 6'6" / 275 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Atlanta PROSPECT RNK 6th POSITION RNK 3rd Wilson is a high-motor player who consistently finds his way into the backfield. He's still raw but the physical tools are there and when he puts it all together, he is going to be a problem. From Los Angeles Rams Round 1 - Pick 7 Kelee Ringo CB GEORGIA • SOPH • 6'2" / 210 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Detroit PROSPECT RNK 18th POSITION RNK 3rd The Georgia-to-first-round pipeline continues. A year after five Bulldogs went in Round 1, expect a handful this time around too. Ringo is a long, physical corner who has matched up against some of the best players in the country. Round 1 - Pick 8 C.J. Stroud QB OHIO STATE • JR • 6'3" / 218 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Carolina PROSPECT RNK 4th POSITION RNK 2nd The Panthers have cycled through three QBs this season, and here's the only certainty: the '23 starter currently isn't on the roster. There's a 100% chance owner David Tepper finally addresses the position this offseason, and if C.J. Stroud is available, it's easy to imagine him being the pick. Round 1 - Pick 9 Peter Skoronski OT NORTHWESTERN • JR • 6'4" / 315 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Las Vegas PROSPECT RNK 17th POSITION RNK 2nd Skoronski is solid and consistent, which are two of the best things you can say about an offensive lineman. The biggest issue he'll face during the pre-draft process will be arm length and whether his NFL future is at tackle or guard. We think he can play tackle but wherever he ends up, he'll make the Raiders offensive line better. From New Orleans Saints Round 1 - Pick 10 Paris Johnson Jr. OT OHIO STATE • JR • 6'6" / 310 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Philadelphia PROSPECT RNK 7th POSITION RNK 1st Paris Johnson, who plays left tackle for the Buckeyes this season, also has experience on the interior; either way, he is a Day 1 starter, which in Philly could be at guard early in his career before moving to tackle if and when Lane Johnson decides to hang them up. From Cleveland Browns Round 1 - Pick 11 Quentin Johnston WR TCU • JR • 6'4" / 215 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Houston PROSPECT RNK 23rd POSITION RNK 2nd Johnston's an above-the-rim playmaker whose athleticism and contested-catch abilities make him WR1 at this point in the proceedings. The Texans drafted their QB of the future first overall and now they give him an explosive playmaker. Round 1 - Pick 12 O'Cyrus Torrence OL FLORIDA • JR • 6'5" / 347 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Seattle PROSPECT RNK 24th POSITION RNK 4th Torrence transferred from Louisiana and didn't miss a beat. He's been dominant for Florida and is a plug-and-play player at the next level. Round 1 - Pick 13 Jaxon Smith-Njigba WR OHIO STATE • JR • 6'1" / 200 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Tennessee PROSPECT RNK 9th POSITION RNK 1st Smith-Njigba barely saw the field this season because of injuries but he's still one of the top wideouts in the class. The Titans offense has been stagnant at times and adding a downfield threat will be at the top of the off-season to-do list. Round 1 - Pick 14 Joey Porter Jr. CB PENN STATE • JR • 6'2" / 194 LBS PROJECTED TEAM New England PROSPECT RNK 30th POSITION RNK 5th Porter is the prototypical big, physical cornerback who looks like he belongs in the NFL. He can sometimes get a little too handsy downfield, but he checks many of the boxes of what teams look for when drafting DBs. Round 1 - Pick 15 Anthony Richardson QB FLORIDA • SOPH • 6'4" / 232 LBS PROJECTED TEAM N.Y. Jets PROSPECT RNK 19th POSITION RNK 4th Typically, NFL teams give QBs taken in the first round three years to prove themselves. It sure feels like Zach Wilson, who was benched for Chris Streveler on Thursday, may not be long for the Jets, no matter what coach Robert Saleh might say publicly. And if that is, in fact, the case, Richardson would be worth considering here. He is one of the most exciting prospects in this class. Yes, he's short on experience, but his physical tools are rare. Round 1 - Pick 16 Christian Gonzalez CB OREGON • SOPH • 6'2" / 201 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Pittsburgh PROSPECT RNK 22nd POSITION RNK 1st Gonzalez, a Colorado transfer, is a big-time athlete who is still growing into the position. He has the size, strength and speed to line up against NFL wide receivers; he just needs to improve in run support. Round 1 - Pick 17 Jordan Addison WR USC • JR • 6'0" / 175 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Green Bay PROSPECT RNK 45th POSITION RNK 7th The Packers have neglected the wide receiver position for years -- including the 2020 class, one of the deepest in draft history -- so why not finally give Aaron Rodgers a pass catcher taken in Round 1? Addison isn't a big target, but he's one of the most dynamic players in the country who can line up anywhere. Round 1 - Pick 18 Jared Verse EDGE FLORIDA STATE • SOPH • 6'4" / 248 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Detroit PROSPECT RNK 11th POSITION RNK 2nd Verse, an Albany transfer, has been electric in '22, even when overcoming a knee injury. At full health, he's a real problem, and the Lions could bookend him with last year's first-rounder, Aidan Hutchinson. Round 1 - Pick 19 Brian Branch CB ALABAMA • JR • 6'0" / 193 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Jacksonville PROSPECT RNK 16th POSITION RNK 2nd Branch isn't the first name you hear about when the conversation turns to Alabama's defense, but maybe he should be. He's a sure tackler, can blitz off the edge, and is solid in coverage, and if Nick Saban trusts him, that's all you need to know about his NFL prospects. Round 1 - Pick 20 Bijan Robinson RB TEXAS • JR • 6'0" / 220 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Tampa Bay PROSPECT RNK 25th POSITION RNK 3rd The Bucs could target a QB here but have other needs to address. RB isn't a huge priority with Rachaad White's emergence, but the team could move on from Leonard Fournette and plug in Robinson, who has been dominant for the Longhorns this season. Round 1 - Pick 21 Devon Witherspoon CB ILLINOIS • JR • 6'0" / 180 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Washington PROSPECT RNK 35th POSITION RNK 7th Witherspoon had a great season for the Illini, and while there will be questions about his slight frame, you wouldn't know it to watch him play. Round 1 - Pick 23 Michael Mayer TE NOTRE DAME • JR • 6'4" / 265 LBS PROJECTED TEAM N.Y. Giants PROSPECT RNK 12th POSITION RNK 2nd Mayer is more Gronk than Kelce but that's not a bad thing. And in New York, he'll get plenty of opportunities -- presumably, with Daniel Jones -- in part because there are only two tight ends currently on the roster and one is set to hit free agency after the season. Round 1 - Pick 24 Cam Smith CB SOUTH CAROLINA • JR • 6'0" / 188 LBS PROJECTED TEAM L.A. Chargers PROSPECT RNK 8th POSITION RNK 1st The Chargers defense has been inconsistent this season, in part due to injury, but also because there's a need to upgrade the secondary. Smith is a first-round talent who can be a Day 1 contributor. Round 1 - Pick 25 Nolan Smith EDGE GEORGIA • SR • 6'3" / 235 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Baltimore PROSPECT RNK 13th POSITION RNK 3rd Smith is listed at just 235 pounds so he'll need to add weight, but he's also scratching the surface on what he'll be able to do at the next level. He suffered a torn pec in November and his season is over, but that shouldn't affect his NFL future. From San Francisco 49ers Round 1 - Pick 26 Drew Sanders EDGE ARKANSAS • JR • 6'5" / 233 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Denver PROSPECT RNK 29th POSITION RNK 4th Sanders is a former five-star who transferred from Alabama after the 2021 season and all he's done is show out for the Razorbacks. He was an edge rusher for the Crimson Tide but he lines up all over the defense for Arkansas and he's been a one-man wrecking crew when he's on the field. Round 1 - Pick 27 Jalin Hyatt WR TENNESSEE • JR • 6'0" / 185 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Dallas PROSPECT RNK 21st POSITION RNK 3rd Hyatt wasn't in the first-round conversation heading into the season but he's a great example of a player taking advantage of his opportunities, thanks in large part to Hendon Hooker's Heisman Trophy campaign. Hyatt is a bona fide deep threat who consistently stacks defensive backs who have been helpless to do much about it all season. Round 1 - Pick 28 Broderick Jones OT GEORGIA • SOPH • 6'4" / 310 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Cincinnati PROSPECT RNK 56th POSITION RNK 6th Jones is coming off a strong '22 campaign for the Bulldogs, where he has faced some of the best defensive players in the country every day at practice for the last two years. Round 1 - Pick 29 Darnell Washington TE GEORGIA • JR • 6'7" / 270 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Kansas City PROSPECT RNK 27th POSITION RNK 2nd Arik Gilbert was the Georgia tight end to watch coming into the season, but it's been Washington who has gotten scouts' attention. He's listed at 6-7, 265 pounds (he actually plays bigger than that), and while he's growing into his role as a receiver, he's essentially another offensive tackle when he's inline. Basically, he'd serve two roles in Kansas City: receiver in a high-powered offense and an extra blocker. Round 1 - Pick 30 Anton Harrison OT OKLAHOMA • JR • 6'5" / 315 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Minnesota PROSPECT RNK 26th POSITION RNK 4th There was some thought that Harrison might return to Oklahoma for an NIL deal that was too good to pass up, but he's instead opted for the NFL. He's one of the top tackles in the class, and now the question is whether he finds his way into Round 1 or goes early on Day 2. Round 1 - Pick 31 Antonio Johnson S TEXAS A&M • JR • 6'3" / 195 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Buffalo PROSPECT RNK 14th POSITION RNK 1st Johnson flies around the field like he's shot out of a cannon, looks to run through the ball carrier at the line of scrimmage, and is a wrap-up tackler in space. He can line up in deep center field or near the line of scrimmage, and that versatility makes him one of the best defensive backs in this class. Round 1 - Pick 32 Jahmyr Gibbs RB ALABAMA • JR • 5'11" / 200 LBS PROJECTED TEAM Philadelphia PROSPECT RNK 39th POSITION RNK 7th The Eagles haven't taken a RB in the first round since 1986 (!) but we said the same thing about Andy Reid and RBs right until the moment he selected Clyde Edwards-Helaire a few years ago. And while CEH may not be the best example of why Philly might consider a back here, Gibbs has drawn comparisons to Dalvin Cook and Alvin Kamara as both a runner and a receiver. He would essentially be yet another weapon for Jalen Hurts in this offense. |
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I keep doing the PFN mocks and Mayer AND Kincaid are both available on some of these. I know we have bigger needs, but at some point it becomes a value discussion.
Do we want TE1, or WR4-5, OT-5, DT-4/5 Edge-6, CB-4/5? I guess I’m asking, how would you feel if we pulled the trigger one Veach’s top TE? |
If you're going to go TE in the first, then I would rather see them take Mayer. You can leave him in as a traditional TE and take that off of Kelce's plate. Then after Kelce retires, you just need to find someone who can basically be our X receiver like Kelce has been.
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Honestly... the team needs to Kelce-proof this roster.
And I think Dalton Kincaid's the only one of the top tier TEs I wouldn't touch. First of all, he doesn't give you anything Kelce's not already giving you. I wouldn't mind another top-tier TE on this team, but they need a complimentary skillset. Plus Dalton has a back issue. Washington I'd be lukewarm on, too. I think he's overrated the more I watch him. But Mayer could crush this scheme with Andy Reid. With the right OC calling plays, he's going to be Jason Witten. I also think Luke Musgrave would slaughter in this scheme as well. Kraft would be a perfect fit with a 2nd round pick (as I don't believe he'll last to our 3rd). Kraft is Dallas Goedert reborn. A couple other guys make sense as well, but the needs we have elsewhere at WR and DL are too great to dip into those waters. I think the Chiefs feel the same way? They haven't brought in any TEs for top 30 visits that we know of. |
There are actually a number of TEs that I would love to get. It just all depends on where they go.
Mayer, Musgrave, Kraft, Kuntz, Schoonmaker, Whyle |
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TE Dalton Kincaid, Utah Josh Whyle, Cincinnati Leonard Taylor, Cincinnati Daniel Barker, Michigan State That certainly doesnt mean we havent talked to others, though. |
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I can't understand how Kuntz tested so well and ran so fast and you just don't see it on film.
dude ran a 4.3 at 6'8 |
Id be hyped if we added a legit number one tight end to pair with the elite number 1 TE in the league in 12 personnel.
Kelce and kincaid or mayer would be an even better version of gronkowski and hernandez. Then if we could steal a wr in the second like mingo or hyatt this draft would set the offense up for 4 years of cost controlled excellence. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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Here's the thing, and y'all can disagree, and probably will, but-
Any TE you put on the roster (or the ones we have) is not going to get a ton of looks because you have Kelce. I mean, it's just the way it is. Even in 2 TE sets, Mahomes is going to look Kelce first, because, well, he's Travis Kelce. So while we'd like to have a replacement ready to go whenever Kelce is less Kelce-like, I don't think it's going to work like that. I'm not convinced that Gray isn't a TE1 on most teams, for instance. But he's not going to put up TE1 numbers on a team with Travis Kelce. So while I'm not against drafting a TE, I don't know that I'd do it super early, because I don't think it's going to move the needle at all. The path to meaningful snaps and more importantly targets is blocked. So you're basically spending high draft capital to pick a guy that you're really going to utilize to the fullest about the time their rookie deal is up. That just doesn't seem like a good use of a high pick. but that's just me. |
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Gray isnt a true TE either though. His role will clash with what kelce is good at. Getting a guy like mayer would allow us to have him do the actual tight end things. Being the sixth blocker and running routes off the tackle. This will take that burden off of travis and free him up to work from the slot alot more often. Right now, we have a bunch of one trick ponies at TE. Fortson and gray are not blockers and are mid receivers at best Bell is a good blocker and a low end receiver option. Adding a guy like mayer would allow more versatility at the TE2 position (or TE1 with kelce playing in the slot/outside) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
2024 is supposed to be another strong year for TE, Bowers of course being the big prize. Would be ok with a block-first TE in the 5th or 6th, but I think a starter-quality DE, OT will fall or starter/rotational DI or WR. Mayer only if the Chiefs trade down and get a (2nd) 2nd rounder.
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If Laporta falls to the 70s, he would be a perfect fit to be on the field at the same time as Kelce in bigger formations. Before that, I just don’t see the impact that high of a pick would require to be considered a good pick.
Iowa offense had NOTHING but Laporta and even though he was defenses focal point, he still was productive in line and in the slot. If he played on a functional offense, he would be talked about as a late first to early second rounder. He absolutely has a little Gronk in his playing style. |
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Good post |
I love Kincaid and LaPorta in this draft.
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The Chiefs have invested at a very minor level at TE with Noah Gray (5-162), Jody Fortson (UDFA receiver converted to TE), Blake Bell (FA on low $ contracts), Nick Keizer (FA on minimum contract), Deon Yelder (FA on minimum contract), Alex Ellis (FA on minimum contract), Demetrius Harris (UDFA converted basketball player), Orson Charles (FA on minimum contract), James O'Shaughnessy (5-173), Brian Parker (waiver wire claim on minimum contract), Phillip Supernaw (FA on minimum contract), Richard Gordon (FA on minimum contract), Anthony Fasano (FA in 2013 with $16M contract, terminated after earning $9M), and Travis Kelce (3-63 also in 2013 first year of Andy). There were others that never made it out of camp. We have tried the former basketball player conversion a few times. The Chiefs with luck, skill, and coaching with Travis Kelce have been very successful at the TE position. BUT... I think the Chiefs could still be better at TE with the right player. Maybe with one of the 4th round picks we can strike gold? George Kittle was a 5th round pick (5-146). |
If you look at the NFL draft of the TE position from the last 10 years, it is littered with failure.
What makes a player like Travis Kelce or George Kittle be so successful? They both had physical gifts that showed but Kittle's receiving stats weren't that good. He was known as a good blocker. Travis his Senior year was good with 45 catches, 722 yards, and 8 TDs. Not much before that. 40 times won't tell, although being a good athlete helps. Stats won't help. There were some pretty good college players that failed in the NFL. |
If available in the 4th round -
Luke Schoonmaker, Michigan, 6-5, 251, 4.63 40 time, 2022 - 12 games, 35 catches, 418 yards, 3 TDs. He will be 25 years old for 2023 but not looking for him to be a long term replacement to Kelce, but someone to contribute this year. |
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In any draft, Every single position on the field is littered with failures at the nfl level. There are over 200 people drafted every year and a majority of them never see a second contract. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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I'd attach a picture of my dick, but nobody wants to see that except Direckshun |
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I do mostly agree with you, I would say that a TE is not the best use of a high pick, where as you say that its not a good use of a high pick. I do have absolute certainty that if they were to take one of the top few TE from this class, Andy would make good use of them and the offense would be improved, so I would be okay with it. I guess I am not as high on Noah as you. I don't think it will happen, but I would actually love to see Darnell Washington go to the Chiefs in the 2nd round, of all the tight ends. I think he would complement the other TEs on the roster currently in 12 and 13 personnel and really put defenses in a bind in terms of personnel to try and match up. |
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All the talk of 'easing the load' isn't going to happen. And it probably shouldn't. The wear and tear and years of use adds up whether he gets the ball or not. It's not like a running back, where the mileage is in the carries. Gray is just a good example of a young player who's path to playing time is blocked somewhat by an established star. Using more 21 personnel is his only real path to more snaps, which the Chiefs have been using. I think he's looked pretty good when targeted. Of course, that's not really all that often-because Kelce. And nobody you draft is going to unseat Kelce until he's declined by a noticeable amount. Which is fine. But if you spend a high draft pick, you're only really going to see significant returns about when it's time to sign them to the second contract. In the case of the WR room, we don't have an established superstar. So yeah, there are plenty of targets available. I think I'm higher than a lot of people on this WR class, but it's not a top 15 weighted class. A lot of second rounders with only a few first rounders. That's not to say there aren't future stars in the group. I think there could be. I'd take one no later than the third I think. |
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I see your perspective that a TE2 is not getting enough targets to justify a 1st round pick. I'm only suggesting that I trust Andy to lean into multiple tight end sets and make it worth it, if it were to happen. But I don't think it will happen, so probably irrelevant. |
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I won't bitch if they grab a TE early, I just think they won't. |
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