LT situation
 

Would you trade a 1 and a 2nd to the Browns for Wills and sign him to an extension to fix the LT spot?

No

I don't think I would either, but I just don't knwo that the hell they're gonna do at LT.

No.

Why would I trade that and then also have to pay the guy?

1) I could trade a 1 for Njiman on the RFA tag and pay him so I could save a draft pick
2) I could trade a 1 and 2 and get into the top 20 and draft my very own, shiny, new, LT that will spend 5 years on a rookie deal which allows me to fill in the rest of my roster with 25 million of cap space I wouldn't otherwise have.

We all know that Brown is signing a new deal with us.

I thought it was most probable until we witnessed how pissed off Mahomes was when Brown gave up the pressure on that last drive of the Bengals game.

If it happens again, I'm not so sure Mahomes is going to sign off on it. Your QB has to trust that LT and right now I just can't fathom Mahomes is all-in.

I must have missed Mahomes getting pissed. I don't see him holding a grudge though unless that was the final straw and it had been building up for a while now.

I don't want Brown back...at any cost. He just doesn't ****ing have it and I don't know what changed because he wasn't this bad last season.

I don't know if he was mad at Orlando in particular. Maybe Patrick was mad at himself for misjudging the speed on the pass rusher. He almost got away from the guy, just a shoe-string tackle.

That being said, Orlando & Wiley are both in the bottom 15% of the league when it comes to protecting the QB on pass plays. At least Wiley is cheap. I would hope they can figure out a cheaper option than paying Orlando $20+ million per year for Bottom 15% performance at his position.

Lord I hope we upgrade LT. Pat has had a career's worth of pressure playing behind mediocre talent.

Brown is mediocre. The thing is, we can make due with mediocre as long as we're not paying a premium. What we can't do is tie up a ton of money in mediocre. That's what's killed our D-line since 2020.

There are guys out there that can do a middle of the road job for less than Brown is demanding. **** that guy.

They went big game hunting with Trent Williams, drafted Fisher first overall and traded a first round pick for OBJ (somewhat).

Guys, they aren't gonna go with a "middle of the road" guy at LT. It's gonna be a big swing one way or another.

They aren't gonna sit and take the 3rd best LT on their board. It's either go way up and get one, pay OBJ or they're trading for someone else.

Sure would be nice if at least one of Clark or OBJ would have ****ing worked out. Instead we're standing around with our dicks in our hands at two of the most important positions outside of QB.

Well, maybe so, but paying OBJ is nowhere near a 'big swing', it's a huge overpay for proven mediocrity, and I just seriously doubt that's what they want to do.

If you're going to have less than stellar LT play, there are cheaper ways to go about it.

Bang for the buck. I hate to say it but watch Eric Fisher as he plays for Miami. If he is a serviceable OT, I'd resign him to try to at least upgrade the OT room. OBjr is not worth a long term contract, I'd franchise him and try to trade him for picks.

It's important that Lucas Niang plays this year to evaluate his recovery. Wylie is a valuable backup but having a higher floor there would hake a huge difference

I'm probably stupid, but it's hard for me to imagine us trading a first with the draft being hosted in KC.

If anything, I figure we will be aggressive and move up. This years LT class feels pretty thin, at least at the top.

Is this a year where we could trade up for a Paris Johnson Jr type? He feels like the best bet from a pass protecting LT.

I dunno, man.

I'm seeing a LOOOOOOT of chips out there.

Sure looks to me like the coaching staff, at this point, is just trying to make chicken salad with the guy.

I don't think they're going to be eager to sign up for 3-4 more years of this shit. Not when doing so will impact their ability to buttress the roster elsewhere.

Yup.

We can get by with mediocre OR expensive. We can't get by with both.

We can pay a premium for a premier LT. But OBJ has played his way off that list. He opened the door with several weeks of plus play, then fell on his damn face again.

And frankly I just get the feeling this is going to be par for the course for him. He's just not a natural fit for this system. That doesn't mean he can't go 4-6 weeks playing extremely well in it, but the stars have to align and they ain't gonna do that for 17 weeks. He'll get dinged or mechanically out of sorts. Or the weather will be bad. Or the matchup.

There are going to be games, probably 1/3 to 1/2 of them any given year, where he's passable at best. That's just the reality when you're asking a guy to run a system he's not well suited to run.

And I just don't think you can lock yourself into that for big money. It's fine if he's cheap; you can make that work. It's not fine when he's even making the money he's making now, let alone asking for more.

Seriously hope we don't pay this guy, but Veach was very close to making that mistake. I don't think it's inconceivable he offers the same again on the assumption he was off early in the year due to injury and has improved a little since. With any luck OBJ is dumb enough to turn it down again.

Well forget about Elghton Jenkins. Signed a long term extension in GB.

Nijman might be able to be signed though.

We need to draft a LT.

If Paris drops to around 15, go get him.

https://youtu.be/bYtES1ttaZU

Why would he drop to 15? Likely top 5

Highest I’ve seen Paris in boards is 10 and lowest is 18. Hard to tell at this point but he’s got like 36” arms and quick feet. I agree that I wouldn’t be surprised to see him go top 10 but he checks a lot of boxes. We’d have to give up a ton to go get him around 15 if he falls that far?

What would we be able to get for OBJ realistically in a tag and trade? 3rd? Maybe 2nd?

I don’t know. Maybe early third?

Can we trade up for a promising LT and sign a solid RT? Watching Wylie and OBJ is just so depressing.

What about Anton Harrison? Seems like he might land at the back of the 1st round.

I am infinitely more worried about RT than I am LT.

If we pay a shit ton to OBJ and sign him long term, I'll feel differently, but for now I can't believe we still trot Wylie out there each week.

Looks like his idiot agent might have done us a huge favor.

I really want to flip a #2 and a mid-tier LT contract for Nijman and get on with our lives. I think that's going to be more than the Packers can absorb.

Top 51 NFL free agents of 2023: Lamar Jackson, Roquan Smith, Geno Smith headline early rankings


http://https://www.nfl.com/news/top-...yers-available

OBJ is 5th. Are we sure we can do better than him? If we don't sign him, what's to stop a run 1st team like Pitt from throwing a truck full of money his way?

Are we trading him and if so who exactly is better? Cause I certainly don't think the kid from Northwestern or from Maryland is walking in that door and protecting Mahomes....

I've seen this thought a lot here so I'm not bagging on you. I think I've brought it up before but I'd counter with "what makes you think OBj is protecting Mahomes?"

I ask that because OBj, regardless of what the knuckleheads across the ocean think, has been pretty well terrible at keeping pressure off Mahomes sans a few bouts with subpar pass-rushers. Sure, Wylie sucking a slightly bigger bag of dicks compounds the issue, but OBj just isn't a great pass protector. If he were, then a good amount of us wouldn't be screaming against re-signing him.

OBj's value is inflated because he is a good run blocker. This team throws the football. So, is it impossible to think that a rookie can come in and fair as well as OBj in pass protection? Yes, and you have the added bonus of that rookie growing over time.

This tackle class is shaping up to be loaded with quality pass protectors. Peter Skoronski is more or less a carbon copy of Rashawn Slater but actually may be a better pass blocker.

Paris Johnson was a 5-star recruit for a reason and a projected top-15 pick.

Jaelyn Duncan is outstanding in terms of his athleticism and ability to block on an island.

Anton Harrison is extremely athletic and great as a pass blocker, he just doesn't have that mean streak and he isn't much of a run blocker. I don't care about that shit, just protect the half-billion-dollar man. He looks like he can do that in spades.

Broderick Jones could declare and he's a good all-around player.

Matthew Bergeron isn't getting too much press yet either but he faced most of the better pass rushers in the draft this year and came away with 12 pressures allowed and no sacks. Those rushers include Foskey, Verse, Abdullah, Diaby, and Murphy, all of whom could go in the 1st or early 2nd.

In the end, some good rookies of late have come into the league as good pass protectors and flourished. I much prefer to spend in other areas than on OBj. Hell, give me Jawaan Taylor at RT and use the savings on squaring up other loose ends.

As an add-on... I do have this overwhelming feeling that the Chiefs are just going to take it on the chin and sign OBj to a long-term deal and then go after the best RT they can get their hands on in the draft. They know OBj isn't the best-case scenario, everyone does. He's actually much closer to the opposite end of the spectrum in my eyes. That said, you have a guy that knows the system and is going to sign if he sees the dollars he wants.

I mean, I just don't like seeing Patrick run for his life so much. They gotta fix something. I can live with OBj if that right side is lock-down.

I think this is exactly what will happen. Wylie wasn’t brought here to be a tackle. He’s a G. And he reminds people in interviews of that fact (per Nate Taylor).

Love Wylie as a backup RG. Even a starting RG. But not tackle

I mean...Skoronski is very good it seems but he also seems built like a guard with his T-rex arms and average build. I'm sure we all remember Gallery for the Raiders-not that I'm comparing to the 2, just pointing out tackles with guard bodies drafted early. Paris has much more size to him but has more experience at guard. In both cases we'll need to move way up. Like, trade Chris Jones value to get that high as our first this year (hopefully last pick) and our 1st next year isn't getting us into the top 10. That's especially the case for Skoronski.

So more than likely we're looking at Steen (OK but Bama linemen have spotty history) and Duncan-who seems pretty good and might be my favorite out of the bunch. Still don't think anyone is coming in here and protecting Mahomes off the bat.

As for OBJ, my hope is that we win a chip and he takes a 5/100 deal. If not, he's still very young and can grow better himself. Also, I'll add and I don't think I'm alone in this thought as I see it all the time in the GDT's is that running the ball more wouldn't be a bad thing. That's much less exposure for Mahomes and offers another element to our attack. Everyone plays us with 4 or in some cases 3 down linemen. You attack that by ramming the ball down their throats.

I guess it comes down to what you think you can get for OBJ and if you think that combined with what you have now will get you another 20 spots or so. Also, if that total amount is worth it. All in all though, none of these guys are Joe Thomas and we'll be giving up a ton to move up.

It's not just Steen or Duncan, tough. Bergeron, Jones (if he declares as expected), and Harrison are all guys who would "play up" as fits in the Chiefs' scheme who might not be a first round tackle for other teams. Zion Nelson of Florida is another player like that.

I'll do more research towards the latter picks you suggested.

I'd prefer to have OBJ re-sign, EB hired and hopefully Andy allow Nagy to call more plays-hopefully he'd run the ball more. I would hope that spending 100M+ on a dude would make them more inclined to use him. OBJ/Thuney seem to always produce numbers when we run to their side. Wish we did it more often.

Bergeron, Jones, and Harrison are all guys who I think you see land in the top 40 picks eventually. They're more "take them at 31 or trade down to the top of the 2nd" types when it all comes to it.

Jones might be the first T taken if he comes out.

What about Mekhi Becton? I know he’s been injured a ton but if we could trade for him and plug him at RT and maybe he could possibly be a long term answer at LT?

not in this offense, he’s no better suited for LT than OBJ is

I’d put Becton at RT. If he lives up to his talent which sounds like his weight has been a problem, then he might be a fit long term at LT if not, leave him at RT. Whoever we go after, we might need to tag obj for one more year and get a potential long term replacement to play RT for a year?

Yeah, he's outstanding. He's only given up TWO sacks on THREE pass-rushes by Hutchinson. Gotta get a guy like that when you can.

Yep ditto really think this is the likely scenario. You've got to think OBJ's performance this year has soured things a little but Veach was willing to offer him big money, he obviously rates him.

So good, you've gotta post it twice?

Statistically, Nijman is a mid-level LT that can be had for much less than OBJ wants. This is why he's my pick to replace him. (they've had him at RT most of this season, with Jenkins at LT while Bahktiari is out. Last season Nijman was at LT while both Bahktiari and Jenkins were out, and played well.)

We can deal with a 'decent LT', we just can't overpay for him.

I wish Orlando was a little more athletic and all.

But this makes no sense. Instead of paying Orlando 22 a year or whatever. You guys want to trade a second round pick for a LT who’s never started a whole season. And then have pay him 15-18?

After the first quarter of the season OBJ has been dominant. Our best bet is keeping him

Bhakatiari has been out the better part of 2 years. He just missed the entire month of December. What makes you think he's even remotely the same guy? If he isn't the Pack would be smart to hold onto Nijman and just wait till they can cut/trade Bhakatiari. They might lose Arod this off-season, absolutely no reason to keep an expensive, LT who's knee might be done.

I still think we can move OBJ to Jacksonville/Pitt for a 2nd and then draft a younger, more pass-pro guy in the off-season.

He's $29m to play, $23m to cut, and they just shelled out a fat contract to Jenkins. They're at like $50m at OT position, but ok

Unfortunately, Orlando has all the leverage here as there are no good solutions.

Hopefully he is in a generous mood after winning the Super bowl and gives a hometown discount. Unlikely but keeping him is our best option for the immediate future. It is possible he continues to improve and hell if we get to the Super Bowl with him, then he is good enough.

Sunk costs are sunk costs.

And they're a LOT easier to swallow if you can retain a starting caliber LT for $5 million or so on a 1st round tender.

If Bhakatiari can't go, what they're paying him is largely irrelevant. And Jenkins is a guy who I think they'd rather play at G in a perfect world.

If you think that's so easy, why wouldn't Jacksonville/Pitt just do the same?

Why would Jacksonville trade for an OT? They have 3 of them already

I'll add that if Arod is done, he's done in GB, he's not done playing football. He's somewhere in the neighborhood of 50M owed if he plays a few more years. A trade to Tenn makes some sense. That gives them more picks to add players who don't cost as much as Bhakatiari.

Of course that them makes them a possible for drafting a LT-which we might be looking at as well.

at 4 years, $68m?

Sure, okay.

Recent top guards are in that range.

Nelson is 20 per
Thuney and Bitonio are 16.0 per
Scherff is 16.5 per

Jenkins having value as a reserve OT and high-end guard put him in that range to me.

I really don't think GB is letting Nijman walk. For 6 million they keep a starting RT, keep Jenkins at OG, and have a quality backup plan if Bakhtiari is in the tub again. Of all the things they should do this season, that one is at the top of the list. The only other player they have worth bringing back is Allen Lazard, and my opinion is they'd improve by letting him walk and finding someone else.

Both teams are more run heavy than we are and both have young QBs who aren't nearly as exp. as PM15. Both have QBs on rookie deals so they might be more inclined to spend extra money. Though in Jacksonville's case they did sign Cam Robinson to a long deal but it wont cost them much to cut him-and he's on IR anyways.

I'd also add Chicago to this list. They kinda have history with us since their GM was here just last year, they have over 100M available to spend and also have a rookie QB. They are in dire need of upgrades all over the offense. They actually might make the most sense if they can trade down from #1 and pick up some extra picks from someone else. They should be able to get a king's ransom from 1 of the QB needy teams.

Lazard has basically said he's "outta here" after their game the other night. He may change his mind but that's what he implied.

Still think that we should move Thuney to left tackle. We can then aim for a guard and right tackle in the draft which is much eaisier and cheaper solution to the problem.

Thuney will be at least as good as OBJ at LT and it means we don't have top money going to 2 positons on the line.

Nothing you said answers the question. If we hate OBJ so much why would they want to give up assets and a big deal when they can just fish one out in the draft for cheap?

You're not making any sense.

I don't hate him. I think he's a good LT, he's just not a fit for OUR system. He's still a fantastic run blocker and for teams that run the ball more than we do, he's a great option. Especially considering his age.

Pittsburgh for example, runs the ball way more than we do and as such, he'd be a great fit there. As to why they don't just draft an o lineman with their 1st? I'd think they'd consider doing both. Drafting a guard at 17 while trading for OBJ.

Word is that the commanders want to run the ball. I wonder if a deal could be made for OBJ plus picks for Leno Jr and Payne

I have floated a deal built around Payne for Brown. I don’t think I’d really want Leno back in that one.

Rather just clear the cap (because you’re going to be paying Payne) and keep the draft chest as full as possible.

Sign Andre Dillard as your speculative T while you try to grab one in the draft.

My thought is that the commanders will not want to maintain Leno and he is a better fit here. Seems like a classic win win if you will. 1 yr for 13m buys the chiefs time to draft and develop or wait for a stronger tackle class next year, if that is the chiefs assessment of the situation. I know that you have more faith in this year's class than the usual media suspects. I can't speak to that because I watched precious little cfb this year.

Conventional wisdom is that Brown is a premium run blocker and weak pass blocker.

For what it's worth (maybe nothing), most metrics indicate that's not the case. In fact, per PFF anyway, he has NEVER had a better run blocking grade than a pass blocking grade in any season in the league.

PFF also says his last 3 years have all been extremely consistent year over year (not game over game). This kinda tells me that OBJ has probably plateaued and largely is what he's gonna be.

We're now looking at a 3K snap sample size of him having about a 76.5 pass blocking grade and 70 run blocking grade. Both starter caliber with a shade towards being a little better pass blocker than run blocker.

Game over game PFF is REALLY bad. But over 3,000 snaps that's probably a meaningful enough sample to matter.

Think we could get a 2nd for him? Chicago/Pitt/etc.....

Just saw this post. I'd do that trade for Payne and a lower pick. I think that Payne would be a great player to put next to George and a hopefully resigned Jones. The cost would be significant tho as both Payne and Jones would need new deals.

Still it would give us a dominant line. I'd still wanna trade up to land a premier LT in this scenario.

Watching Mahomes on one leg has me irrationally angry and frightened.

If it were me, I'm taking an Anton Harrison, and signing the best RT available and Ngakoue.

Build the best OL you can, and rush the passer on defense. Keeping Mahomes upright is the priority, rush the opposing QB, and every other position is a luxury.

What do you think of Paris Johnson? It would require us to get into the top 15....but that's not impossible. Worth it if we can get a guy for the next 15 years.

I don't know. I don't like having to give up multiple picks to go get him.

And Harrison's pass block rating is elite. I don't know that he's a worse fit, honestly.

I don’t think Paris Johnson is so much better than the guys likely to be available with less of a trade up.

Personally, I’d roll with targeting Bergeron or Harrison or someone like that.


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This is where I keep getting.

If you're not taking one of the 'blue chip' LTs in any given class, you're just flipping a coin either way.

15 doesn't get you a 'blue chip'. Hell, 10 usually doesn't.

I wonder if the Dolphins will be shopping Austin Jackson. He's disappointed there but had some nice potential coming out. He has legit LT tools, IMO and that's something most guys just don't have.

If I could flip a 5th or something for Jackson, i think I'd do that. I'd consider a 4th based on skills but the injury history is worrisome.

I just think a 'Veach Special' at OT is a good idea. Try to find a guy who's lost momentum but has a premier tool box and bring him in at low cost.

I don't know what you're considering "blue chip" at LT but as a whole with starting LTs in the NFL, you're very wrong with your whole mantra about having to be top 10. It's top 20. I've done that research and posted that research here in the past.

Now if you want to talk about, say, the top 5 tackles in the NFL then your argument still likely fails. Laremy Tunsil was pick 13, for example. Bakhtiari was a 4th rounder and Armstead was a 3rd rounder. I mean, what guys are you putting into your argument? Surely Trent Williams as a #4 overall and probably Tyron Smith as a #9 overall, but you can see already that if you look at those 5 then you're not exactly on par with what you're saying.

I like this tackle class for sure. I think KC can fix both sides in this draft if they're smart about it, similar to what Seattle did last year.

That's a fair point as Paris's all around game seems like a good match for a team that runs more (provided they don't take OBJ off our hands). Still, even if your predictions of Harrison are spot on, then he'll likely be a fast riser-especially after the combine/pro days where coaches and GMs can see his speed, ability to pass protect, agility, etc, etc.

In other words, we'd still need to trade up for him. I mean if he's a good of a pass protector as his projections say he is then he'll go top 20-if not higher. So we'll still need to move up.

I've seen some matchups of Orlando Brown Jr with the Patriots if he hits free agency.

Got me thinking about the potential there for a tag and trade situation that sends OBJ and 1-31 to New England for 1-14.

They have the cap space to make a signing like him and they'd be giving up the equivalent of a high 2nd round pick in this situation. It also puts KC in a situation in the draft where they can get their guy at LT.

What do you think of this? Could it be a reality?

I personally have thought the Cheats make sense. OBJ fits what they need: a LT that can do both, but is best run blocking and probably needs a QB that stays in the pocket.

I've always thought that a 2nd seems like a fair trade. Gives us ammo to move up and get whatever LT we want. Cheats/Steelers/Bears all make a ton of sense as does Indy-where I'm hoping and praying decides to hire EB.

Guys....I think we need to move on from the LT talk. They'll at the very least tag OBJ.

Go to the draft and if a guy they like falls or something, take him. Worst case scenario you take a guy like Duncan in the first and play him at RT for a year.

But OBJ is here next year. I personally figure he ends up signing a long term deal here this offseason anyway, but the tag makes some sense.

Solid point that has nothing to do with the emotion of winning this week, I'm sure.

Since you can see the future, how much does he sign for and are we keeping Jones as well? I ask because the combination of the 2 will be significant even if we dump JJSS.

I've said they'd sign him to a LTD all season. This week really didn't change much for me.

They'll sign Jones too.

They'll save money by signing both to open space this year.

OT Anton Harrison starting to feel like the most likely pick IMO

If one of the T's is there, even if you've signed OBJ I think you take him. Let them play RT.

Has to be someone who can handle RT if that's the route you go. Anton Harrison probably is not that.

Bergeron? Duncan? Broderick Jones? Those are the names you're thinking about in the 1st now. Maybe the BYU kid.