I'm changing my stripes. I have a new plan for the defensive line.
 

I say we keep Jonesy, and we load up on DT.

Give me D'aron Payne. Then bring back Saunders and Williams for run downs.

Give me a Smoot, and maybe a Clelin Ferrell reclamation project.

Let's crush the pocket from the middle out.

I'm watching Burrow, and Brady, and the games yesterday, and...man, guys get the ball out QUICK except for Mahomes. Your ends just aren't going to get there fast enough unless you have truly elite speed rushers.

But if you had Payne and Jones; you can't double them both. One of them is getting a one on one and will be in the QB's face immediately.

Then you can go with bigger power rushers outside for containment.

Maybe this is the way.

totally agree with this, more good pocket pushers available where we draft than game changing edge rushers...

https://lumiere-a.akamaihd.net/v1/im...0%2C1280%2C720

This is the way.

Da'Ron Payne is going to get the franchise tag, there's no doubt about it. I'm not trading two 1sts for it.

You might be able to get Dre'Mont Jones, although he isn't quite the pocket crusher Payne is and then you have the issue of him actually functioning as a NT when they do run the ball because he's only 285 pounds. That said, it's a passing league, so take your lumps on the ground but I don't think you take your lumps to the point can be detrimental because teams won't stop running it down your throat.

Maybe you look very seriously at a guy like Gervon Dexter, who I think has the potential to develop into a guy, earlier than you normally would in the Draft. Or a Jaquelin Roy if he declares.

As for ends, I think speed is the key on the edge. Crush the inside with good DTs then eliminate rolling out with as much speed as you can get on the outside. It's why I'm a big fan of Felix Anudike-Uzomah and Will McDonald.

Bring the pain.

If they tag Payne, I kinda wonder if you could trade a 2 for Sweat?

Don't they have to deal with like three big contracts on that line?

and as far as speed at edge, yeah, well we're not getting that at #30ish. So it's Ngakoue or bust in FA.

I think you can absolutely get speed at DE at 30, you just might get much more than that. That's fine IMO. Hopefully Karlaftis next year sets a decent edge consistently, that seems plausible. Get a NT in FA or the draft and that's already 3/4s of the way to plugging the run. Then get an Omenihu for pass-rush, draft another speed merchant and you're away. Grab a lump DE later in the draft for more containment.

You still need speed rushers on the end because without them, QBs can simply drop deeper, not worry about the DE running the arc and in effect neutralize the interior rush.

We just don't present any sort of threat to run the arc so QBs can settle back into that deeper area on their drop and wait.

We need at least one speed rusher that can challenge the arc.

Go get a dude at DE.

I think the Commanders ARE a team that makes sense as a trade partner. They have a lot of defensive line talent that are ripe for extensions and can't keep them all. They're all-in on Allen, it looks like they're all-in on Payne, and they have two DEs coming up for extensions now/next year, too.

I also look at that team, its head coach, and think it might be a team for which Orlando Brown Jr. makes sense at T.

Is there a path here that involves swapping Orlando Brown Jr. and some draft capital for whichever DL they are not committing to long term (Payne? Sweat?).

They do but they'll be offset.

Payne is due this year, Sweat next, and Young the year after. If Young doesn't get healthy and start looking like the player he was supposed to be, they may not have to worry about him.

They'll be mostly through Payne's next deal until he money got too damned bad and they should end up with a rookie QB to make up for it.

Edit: That said, see below... I forgot to quote both of you.

It's a tough decision for them. I don't think Sweat breaks the bank too bad. He's a really solid end but I don't think he's a "plus" end that gets into the 20+ range. 15-17 per, probably. If I'm going there, why not try to swing for Ngakoue and not spend a pick/player on anything?

Could they trade Payne? Absolutely. They SHOULD trade him and they likely will. They are still going to have to tag him to trade him, so we can't just waltz in there and sign him. We also probably shouldn't make the trade unless it is a player swap. My opinion is that it's going to take a 1st even if they have no intention to keep him around, which I'd assume is the case since they drafted Phidarian Mathis at 47 last year.

If they take OBJ for Payne if they both get tagged? Yeah, make it happen.

If they let him walk? Oh yeah, I'm 100% all-in at that point. Go get that monster.

I dunno that I'd go with Payne and Jones and look for another DE.

I'd keep swinging on the interior and go find a DE.

If you could tag and trade OBJ to them for Sweat, man, I'd make that deal in a second.

I think Sweat is quite a bit better player than Ngakoue.

Depending on the draft capital in question, I think Sweat at a similar cap hit to Yannick would be worth the trade capital.

But if you're talking about a pick in the first or 2nd round? Eh...may pivot at that point.

That said, I'm pretty down on Ngakoue - he's just very quiet in between his splash plays. It's possible I'm not giving him enough credit - but he doesn't seem like a disruptive player as much as a guy who just shows up in spurts.

They got Sweat with a first rounder, IIRC, right?

I wonder if a similar comp would be the OBJ trade. We give up our 1st, they send a 2/3 back?

Glad to know I'm not the only one thinking this.

I wonder what Davenport fetches given his injuries and his lack of sacks this year. If his value is knocked I really wouldn't hate getting him. Young, can do it all, still getting pressure it sounds like even without the sacks.

Davenport seems like a sort of best case scenario for Karlaftis.

Not really a complement to him, but a slightly more advanced version of him.

I've reached the same position I reached with RB last year - just give me speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.

I'm tired of these long guys who win with power or technique. And not terribly often at that.

We need someone that can swap sides and force teams to respect the arc and thus think long and hard before setting up deep drops. I will never understand how we just ignored that inevitable counter to our rush approach.

Just set up deep and you're essentially getting 2 free seconds to scan and fire.

Just trade for Brian Burns and be done with it.

Well evidently the Panthers were turning down offers of 2 first rounders for him from the Rams.

You eager to top that one?

"Be done with it..." is easier said than done, sir.

Apparently they were turning down future first rounders from the Rams.

Give them this years 1 and a future 2nd.

Yeah, I'm good wiht that.

Another random thought if we go this route - if we can’t get speed on the edges, can we get height/arm length to swat down the hot passes? Dunlap has a few of these this year.

Obviously need some level of talent, as opposed to the trash like KPass and Kaindoh.

Oh yeah I think I agree on what's missing. If we were in on Davenport at a reduced cost I'd still be looking for an explosive DE in the draft. I don't know who would be left in FA who fits the bill. I like Okoronkwo and Omenihu but they might not be that type of player either?

Well guys, were at the point that if you want that speed DE that can just be an ass kicker.....well.....we know where those guys get drafted.

I know no one likes it, but they're probably gonna have to either trade up for one or trade for an pay one.

I don't need one that can be an 'ass-kicker'.

Just one that can be fast. A 3rd down rotational player who can just be fast.

I don't care if that ends up being Leo Chenal at this point. Just give me a rotational player who can challenge the arc. That's it and that's not hard to find. Guys like Nick Bonitto go in the 3rd every year.

I wouldn't trade for Brian Burns. Why do we have to visit throwing every draft resource we have plus a good chunk of the cap resource we have with these visions of trading for a guy that's going to cost more than two 1sts? Legit he's going to cost no less than two 1's and a 3 and maybe more.

Not a chance.

As for getting speed rushers, there are always plenty of guys at the end of 1 and through the mid-2nd that fit. Felix and McDonald are prime-A examples of guys that probably end up in that range. They aren't great run defenders and are a bit light, but they are fast and regularly threaten the arc. Just take one of those guys.

Our more significant issue right now is needing two pillar positions in one off-season and how to combat that. You absolutely can't do it if you're trading everything away only to pay the guy too.

Ngakoue might not be the perfect solution, but he's ****-all less of a total resource cost than trading for Sweat or Burns or whatever flavor of the day.

The issue is gonna be, I'm just not sure you can fill 2 pilar spots in an offseason without being aggressive.

They aren't gonna fill the DE and T spot with draft picks. Based on their history, it's just not gonna be the way they go about it. They'll do one thru the draft and be aggressive on the other somehow.

You may think we don't "need' that, but it seems every other team eventually determines that they do.

So I'm guessing the Chiefs will feel the same.

I wouldn't trade for Burns, either.

The only trade I'm really considering for a DE guy is either a late round (5-6-7) pick for a reclamation type, or if I'm using Orlando Brown, Jr. as part of the trade capital.

Brown and a 3rd or 4th? Sure, let's talk about it. Otherwise, nah man. Find your own complementary guy.

Do at DE what the Chiefs did at WR this year. Build a complementary room that improves overall even if it doesn't have an alpha star.

I'm definitely open to that. Think it's probably the better idea.

But it's also not one or the other. If they trade for a guy, I'd look to stock more in there too.

You know who would have been nice across from Karlaftis? Hasaan Reddick

Yeah - that's probably a perfect fit.

I wondered if he'd have the size to play with his hand on the ground, but he's been awfully good this year.

But I think they need to draft that sort of guy rather than pay for him.

ZDarius Smith woulda been nice too.

The Chiefs poked around at Arden Key last year and I don't think the Jags re-sign him with their cap situation and other priorities like their RT. He'll probably be relatively high on the Chiefs' radar again.

Omenihu is a Spags' type as well. I don't know if they'll spend lavishly at the position in FA unless someone breaks loose they really like.

I am warming up to the idea of going after Dre'Mont Jones even if they keep Chris Jones. It just might not be that bad of an idea to really go after the QB from the interior as a primary set plus they can morph in and out of 3-man fronts pretty easily.

Might be the best way to go about it. That's alot of coin on the interior DL but it is what it is. They've gotta beef it up somehow.

https://overthecap.com/player/carl-lawson/5702

Kinda have my eye on this. He's got a big cap savings and they've gotta get Quinnen Williams done.

If they'd take a 3rd or 4th for him, you could extend him and lower that number.

Are we even sure that Spags gives a shit about a DE with speed at this point?

I'm not, no.

But I'd like to think that witnessing our front 4 this year will disabuse him of some preconceived notions on that front.

In his 2nd stint as DC for NYG he drafted Owa Odighizuwa in the 3rd rd who was 6’4” 267 lbs with huge hands and long arms. That guy ran a 4.62 40 and had a 3 cone time of 7.36

Seems like he wants those big athletic guys in the JPP mode. Makes sense that we got Carlos Dunlap

If we can command attention on the interior of the DL then total speed off the edge would make them pick their poison

What's critical is that it makes them conscious of both in their game-planning.

It's especially troublesome if you have GK and DE2 swapping sides. Now on any given play, the OT will have to recognize that they have to take different sets based on what they're lining up against.

And in game-planning, opposing OCs know they have to be ready for a deeper, faster rush coming from either side on any given playcall.

It's what makes Philadelphia's defense deadly.

You have Sweat and Reddick both rushing with speed and you have Cox and Hargrave that are both really good at rushing the passer.

George and Jones are solid, we're only missing a couple of key additions to have a really solid DL. I'd consider squashing the whole issue by picking up 1 quality FA and going DE in 1st and DL in the 2nd, or vice versa, in the draft. Problem is you'd have to be pretty confident in our OTs and WRs to feel comfortable putting that kind of focused resources into the DL.

When they beat the unbeatable undefeated Patriots, he had Osi Umenyiora. He was a speed guy. And peak Strahan, who was the long, tall, DE we usually see in his defense.

I really think it's been a question of what's been available to them.

I was digging around today at some transactional data from prior drafts out of curiosity to see what it would cost to get into the middle of the 2nd round from the bottom of it. The last two times I see that it happened was in 2020 and 2019.

In 2020, the Seahawks sent #59 and their 3rd (101) to the Jets for #48.
In 2019, the Saints sent #62, their 6th (202) and a 2020 2nd to the Dolphins for #48.

Basically, it's going to cost a 3rd or future 2nd.

And why would I look at this? Because that area seems to be when the last of a tier of pass rushers seem to go and I have a couple guys kind of pegged in that range right now that I feel would be good fits as that speed rusher opposite Karlaftis.

I'm also curious because of the what if scenario of going up and getting a tackle in the 1st. We've seen the move from the end of 1 to 20/21 cost a 3rd and 4th pretty consistently, which may be about as far as a guy like Jaelyn Duncan might fall.

Veach hasn't been ultra-aggressive the past couple of drafts and it's worked to build a core of guys at non-pillar positions. His lone feat of aggressiveness last year was to fill a pillar by going up and getting a CB.

I'm wondering if this is the year to really make some moves to try to go get a couple more. A future 2 and 4th to get up in 1 for a LT? A 3rd to get up in 2 for a DE?

It may be time.

Yeah. Draft stock on the T is just so all over the place.

Draft Huddle has Duncan in the top 20 (and has some guys I think we see in the top 15 in the 25-50 range, like Quentin Johnson). They also slot Broderick Jones at G and in the mid-20s. I've seen some that don't even have Duncan in the top 50. Just a weird year for T, but maybe that works to KC's favor.

Man I'm so glad you mentioned this as it popped into my head the other day and has been bugging me. Did Spags somehow miss the benefit of a speed guy or does he really not give 2 s***s. It sounds like he kinda does has a type but he doesn't fix to it rigidly.

Honestly think you might get a decent DE or OT at the end of the 1st. Basically sit there and take BPA at those positions and then trade up in the 2nd to get the other. I'm probably more inclined to sit and wait and just play it by numbers because i still think we need picks for a DT and safety and probably a WR

Aside from Omenihu I really wouldn't mind Okoronkwo. Very limited usage but an effective rusher and not an obvious liability against the run. I don't reckon he'll break the bank and you could probably pair with one of the DT FAs that have been mentioned for a reasonable outlay.

The few times I watched Duncan, I didn't come away impressed. Maybe I just caught the bad games?

I don't know but here's my take: I'm an Ohio State fan and I'd take Duncan over Paris Johnson who keeps getting top-10 grades everywhere I look. I just don't think Johnson has the foot speed to be an elite LT. I was really ****ing high on Christian Darrisaw when he came out and I see a lot of similarities with Duncan.

If someone is rating Duncan outside the 1st round, they're probably smoking something or haven't updated their rankings in a long time.

I haven’t watch games but in these clips, Paris’s feet look quick. And with 36” arms. This kid looks to have a huge upside with more coaching.

https://youtu.be/uxuZpoxvC40

Maybe not? They did draft Phidarien Mathis and John Ridgeway last year. Two big physical DTs.