Nobody's talking about the piss-poor run game vs The Bengals last week?
 

Of course there was so much greatness to talk about after beating the pussycats in the AFCCG, did we overlook the shockingly terrible ground game?

What gives?

Total team rushing yds = 42

Pacheco = 10 runs for 26.
Jerrick = 4 runs for 1 yard
RoJo = 1 run for zero

RBs accounted for 27 yards.

Patrick 3 for 8 yards
Mecole 2 for 7

20 rush attempts (vs 43 pass attempts as far as I can tell)

Did CIN just stack the box the whole time figuring Pat couldn't scramble? We didn't make any adjustments? Our O-line is THAT bad run blocking?

Discuss.

If this was already drudged over in another megathread, please blame megathreads. George didn't even make it a "thing" in his ten things, just a couples sentences buried in the Mahomes "thing"

GIVE ME HOPE! How can we balance out the game to beat PHI.

They were playing the run and forcing a gimpy Mahomes to beat them.

And he did.

Finally a valid topic of concern to discuss.

I have no idea what happened, we ran for 4.6ypc first match up I believe.

chief fan wants to establish the run to set up the pass LMAO

We’re not running against the Eagles either.. Whatever.. Passing is how we make our bones…

Martyball for the win /Sarc ;)

This plan very nearly worked due to our wrs getting annihilated. Chris Jones is the second biggest reason it didn't.

This. And they did it even more as the WRs kept dropping like flies.

Bengals run defense is good. They allowed the 7th fewest yards per carry in the league, despite playing the Ravens (3rd) and Browns (11th) twice each.

Eagles allow 4.6 yards per carry, which is 24th in the league.

The Chiefs worst rushing games were all against the top run defenses in yards per carry: Colts (6th), Broncos (12th), Bills (11th before injuries), Rams (13th), Titans, (1st). Seahawks were the only poor runs defense that the Chiefs struggled to run against.

We ran pretty well against the Raiders (21st) twice and they allowed fewer yards per carry than the Eagles. Same with the Buccaneers (20th). We even ran pretty well on the 49ers, who were 2nd.

DJ Reader happened.

He's really ****ing good.

Credit where it's due, Reader drew a ton of attention and BJ Hill played an outstanding game in support of him. We just weren't able to get much push with those guys clogging the middle like they were. And when we tried to switch to more outside zone, Hubbard stayed sound allowing Pratt and the DBs to really move around without much threat of the OL getting into the second level.

The Bengals just played really good run defense.

Neither team rushed very well.

Good run defenses and COLD.

15 attempts says they didn't want to run.

Win or lose, I suspect people are going to be angry at Andy for not running the ball enough in the Super Bowl.

I swear I saw a few people after the Tampa SB loss whining about how we could have had a shot in the game if we had run the ball more.

Chris Jones was reason #1. It's ok to admit. It's not a slight on Mahomes.

I'll say it again - Trey Smith really is the lynchpin for our rungame. It goes as he goes. And he had his hands full with Reader and Hill. He is used for so many of those wham blocks, etc... that really pop open runs that when those big ol boys in the middle of the Bengals DL were able to hold him up, the whole thing collapsed on itself.

There's not much to take away from it, IMO.

Yeah but it was brutal, nothing worked. Jet seeps, misdirects, Pacheco who usually finds a hole once or twice.

At least Pacheco and McKinnon had good yards via a couple of dump offs. But dang, it might be a long day if they can't at least bust a couple through.

Not sure how much time you spent in the GDT but it was a mixture of "Why aren't we running more?!" and also "Stop running the ball on 1st and 2nd down!". These were both after we couldn't run the ball for shit.

I do find it weird though, our interior oline are a bunch of really good players. We can never get one yard up the middle though. I just can't wrap my head around that.

We don't need balance in the Offense to beat the Eagles, but we do need to be a lot more effective when we do choose to run the ball.

Early it seemed like they were going to try to maintain some balance. And I'm wanting to say they made a halftime adjustment to focus on outside zone when the inside zone stuff was getting wrecked. When it didn't work, they just scrapped the run game.

And that was the right call.

There's just no sense in 'establishing the run' at this point in the season. It's a myth and it don't work.

If you're running well, go ahead and continue to mix them in there and try to get a nice 60/40 pass/run split. And if it isn't working - screw it, fire that !@#$ing pigskin!

Eagles run defense is a big step down from the Bengals run defense.

Should be very possible.

We seem to run better with Mahomes taking the snap under center. A gimpy Mahomes made that riskier, and my sense is our run game from shotgun isn't as effective. Hopefully, two more weeks to recover will put Mahomes under center a bit more to put that back into the game plan.

Some folks were saying that Tre Smith was dinged early in the game and played through it.

Not sure that Wylie should have been called for holding on the TD run by Pacheco.

Chiefs losing Toney and Hardman was big loss for run part of game plan that requires motion or speed to the edge.

Cox isn't a force against the run anymore and Hargrave doesn't even try to stop it. Linval Joseph is more name than productivity. Davis hasn't really stepped up as a rookie yet. They just don't have much gravity in the middle; certainly nothing like Cincy has.

And their edges are more designed to rush as well, though Brandon Graham may be one of the more secretly great players in the league. I don't think he'll make the HoF or anything - but he actually might and NOBODY thinks of him in that light. He's been a damn good player for a really long time. He makes me nervous in this one because you know he's going to empty the tank. He could absolutely have an impact on the run game if Wylie can't hold his own against him.

We also ran a bunch of those "RB up the C's ass on first down" plays we all loooove so much. Those tend to kill averages.

Both Ds did a great job shutting down the run. Closed gaps, wrapped up, made tackles.

I haven't looked at the alignments, but this was my gut feel. It's what I would have done.

Trey Smith wasn't at 100%.

They were definitely making an effort to stop the run. The only good run we had was Pacheco’s TD that got called back by a penalty.

I read this somewhere online, sorry cant remember where, but when all our Wr's went out they were primarily playing a one high safety look and bringing the other safety down for run support. Which made MVC more effective in the many routes he was running against that allignment.

Trey Smith is/ was banged up a bit.

Also, we got a few passes to Pacheco which is basically an extension of the run game and added another 60 yards.

also, and I love Pacheco, but not sure he has the best field vision in the world. Several times it looked like he would just put his head down and run....right into the asshole of one of our lineman.

How many times would you prefer to run headlong into a brick wall? They took it away and A gimpy Mahomes threw for 300 plus - 3 receivers.

/end of thread… they played to stop the run and hoped a one legged Mahomes couldn’t beat them with his arm.

I hope this isn't the start of another "bench Smith for Allegretti" suggestion DJ ;-)

Dump offs to RBs is our most effective run game against fronts like that

If/when we run it I hope it's isolating Hargrave because as DJ said he just has no interest in stopping that. That's the best bet imo, their DEs are solid across the board.

Man their OL and DL depth is insane, good God. I honestly think if we pull this off it's a significantly bigger achievement than the last SB.

To be fair now, I didn't say bench him.

I said sit him down to get him healthy because Allegretti can hold down the fort.

Smith was REALLY bad for about 5 weeks after that injury. I always worry about the ability of guys to recover while trying to play through something like that.

But it appears Smith was able to do it because he's playing more like he did last season and has been through most of the second half.

Might be our most effective run game in general. We are absolutely LOADED with guys who are terrors in open space. Our backs & receivers excel in the good 'ol WCO.

The Chiefs running game is usually inconsistent. It's never been a big strength because they'll always pass first with Reid. They rarely run behind the FB and frequently run out of shotgun. Much of their yardage comes from reverses and Mahomes' scrambles. Short yardage runs are the most frustrating because the interior OL is supposed to be good.

Regarding Sunday night, my impression was the Bengals stacked the box, as they should have. Whenever KC tried to run, it went nowhere.

It's worth noting that I saw Smith limping TWICE during the game. He wasn't fully healthy either and Reader and Hill are beasts.

Just think, there are people that want us to run it MORE

ROFL

Nick Jacobs broke this down in his viewing of the All-22. Good stuff.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">4. I think the Chiefs wanted to run more but the Bengals answer to 12 or 13 personnel was to swap out Trey Hendrickson for Josh Tupou as the NT and alter to a 34 front. That was tougher to block with him, DJ Reader &amp; BJ Hill. Reader needs constant double teams.</p>&mdash; Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jacobs71/status/1620639069922541569?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 1, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Mahomes had no run game, questionable receivers, and a bad ankle, yet he still kept the offense afloat for 60 minutes, keeping Burrow off the field for a large part of the game. The Chiefs gained 357 total yards. Mahomes accounted for 334 of them.

This Bengals defense with Anarumo’s complex scheme is tough on QBs (see Josh Allen last week) and Pat kept us rolling all throughout the game.

Well, we did lead the NFL in rushing in 1995.

We were moving the ball with ease until our receivers went down.

We had 20 points in 2.5 quarters; I think we continue to score if JuJu, Hardman and Toney don't get hurt.

Gray, Fortson and Kemp were out there a ton those last 1.5 quarters.

Mahomes had a terrible fumble that gave Cincy huge momentum. He got bailed out in the end by the KC defense and special teams. I enjoyed it! Tom Brady has been bailed out a million times by his defense & special teams.

Did we miss Blake Bell?

Quick passes to #10 at almost 12 yds per attempt? And 8.5 avg to #1? That works too!

Good run defense that was expecting a run-heavy gameplan. But if the interior OL is as good as it's made out to be, they shouldn't get completely shut down like this.

I do think they can have more success vs PHI.

And the Chiefs threw for 326 yards.

Well played by Reid. Taking Hendrickson off the field LMAO

On top of the fact that they dared Gimpy Mahomes to beat them, our run formations have become incredible easy to spot.

I wish we would do more power sweeps and maybe using a FB to block on short yardage. Maybe even a QB draw, which I never see anymore.

:arrow::arrow::arrow::arrow::arrow:KNOW YOUR ROLL AND SHUT YOUR HOLE!:arrow::arrow::arrow::arrow::arrow:

We need to be better on first down against the eagles. Third and longs are a recipe for disaster against Philly.

Trey Smith was hurt early on, but played through it. Clearly was not at 100%.

They played the run very well. It's okay to admit it, it's not like the Bengals are a bad football team and can't adapt. They probably wanted to test Mahomes' ankle as much as they could, so they hard-focused the run game and forced Mahomes to pass. And as we kept losing WR's, they leaned on that strategy more and more.

As the game went on, I think the Bengals assumed that Mahomes wouldn't be able to continue pulling off miracles on one foot, but he did. That TD drive to put us up 20-13 was Mahomes putting the team on his back, herculean effort.

Basically, we good.

Rojo had 0 yards. Could've sworn he lost yards on his one carry...and didn't mecole pickup a yard to get a key first down early?

You guys have to understand in this offense those quick designed throws are "runs"

Well, knowing Mahomes was on one leg, The Bangles were going to force him to beat them, and I'm sure the more receivers dropped, the more confident they were in that plan.

We're going to have to run the ball enough to keep that Eagles front four from just teeing off, make them honor their run gaps. Otherwise, they're going to kill Mahomes.

You can't just drop back 70 times. Not under normal circumstances, but certainly not with Mahomes on one leg throwing to Marcus Kemp.

Reader is a run-stuffing beast, and he came to play Sunday. I think the other thing is that this OL is a little hamstrung trying to run outside the tackles, because our Ts just aren't that quick, but we're pretty stout inside, so most of our better running attacks have been inside the tackles, not outside.

Pivot: PHI is not that good vs. the run, apparently. Not that we'll spend a ton of resources trying to exploit that, but it should be easier to run against PHI.

Which roll should I get to know best? I have a few.

Should I put jelly on my roll because I should know that's what it really wants?

Or, is my roll more of a honey type of roll?

Are we talking about that kind of roll, or should I be learning to tuck and roll?

Confused.

Expect the same against Philly.

Three pro bowlers on the oline and even the one who shouldn’t be a pro bowler should be hell of a Mauler in the run game. Trey Smith should excel in the run game also. Still can’t run and struggle to get third and 1. I will say Bringing in a NEW D-line coach in Joe Cullens has paid huge dividends for the D. Jus say’n.

Our OL in general isn't that great at generating movement off the snap. They are much better at sealing a guy to clear a lane and moving in space. We're at a disadvantage against teams that have immovable objects at DT and LBs willing to fire downhill. For as good as our IOL are, you guys are expecting them to be these road graders they simply aren't.

The Chiefs can't be a true "smashmouth" running team. They should run the ball, sure, but we're not going to just ram it down their throats like the Titans, Ravens, etc.

It would help if Reid actually used the FB he absolutely insists on wasting a roster spot on and he should have Mahomes taking more snaps from under center if he really wants to try and smash anything.

Yeah we see that every time we try to sneak Bell on 3rd and short.

The run game, particularly with Pacheco, has been much better with QB under center. Up until last game, we were seeing more of Mahomes under center. I suspect Mahomes lack of mobility was the reason for the change against the Bengals rather than Reid abandoning the QB under center. On two weeks rest, I expect to see a more mobile Mahomes under center with Pacheco behind him.

It was driving me insane how we seemingly ran on every 1st down in the second half to no effect. 1-2 yards every time, reliably keeping us out of 3rd and manageable situations. (Of course we still managed some anyway)

Running the ball is fine situationally but in today's NFL, and in our offense with our yards per play running and passing, committing to the run is foolish.

You don't establish the run today, you establish threat to all areas of the field with the run just being one equal part of that.

Thread/

Hardman did have a nice conversion. He got absolutely smashed for his trouble, too.

That was actually the play Trey Smith got hurt on.

We run more out of the shotgun which changes angles and makes it tougher for he RB's I think.

Seems during the season when we got more under center we ran it better.

Pacheco under center: 80 attempts for 401 yards, 5 YPC
Pacheco from shotgun: 90 attempts for 429 yards, 4.8 YPC

Eh. Really not a meaningful distinction for Pop.

Once our WRs all went down the Bengals were playing single high and targeting the running game. And they're a team that defends the run very well.

It just wasn't a good matchup to run the ball against. I don't think there's much more to it than that.

I'm really surprised that the distribution of under center to shotgun runs was almost even.

Wish it could be further broken down by situation. Because we likely go under center more in short yardage situation where the defense is playing the run closer so even though the ypc is almost even, it would show more effective blocking and running in those times.

True.

Especially once the weapons at WR were all hurt it made sense.