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Let's talk Defensive Line
Went through a bunch of threads to identify all of our interests across the defensive line, is this all of them? Who else should be added to the list? Removed from the list? Should anyone be moved up or down on the draft target list?
FA Targets -DE Yannick Ngakoue, IND -DT Da’ron Payne, WAS -DT Poona Ford, SEA -DE Jadaveon Clowney, CLV -DT Kalen Saunders, KC -DT Greg Gains, LAR -DT Armon Watts, CHI -DE Ardon Key, JAX -DE Clean Ferril, LVR -DE Ogbonnia Okoronkwo, HOU -DT Chris Wormley, PIT -DT Maurice Hurst, SF -DT Andrew Billings, CIN Vet Trade Targets -DE Brian Burns, CAR -DE Chase Young, WAS -DE Carl Granderson, New Orleans -DE Za'Darius Smith, Minnesota -DE D.J. Wonnum, Minnesota 1st Rd Targets -DT Byran Breese, -DE Lukas Van Ness, Iowa -DE BJ Ojulari, LSU -DE Keion White, Georgia Tech -DE Derick Hall, Auburn -DE Isahiah Foskey, ND -DE Nolan Smith, Georgia -DL Tuli Tuipulotu, USC -DE Andre Carter, Army 2nd Rd Targets -DT Siaki Ika, BU -DE Will McDonald IV, Iowa St. -DL Calijah Kancey, Pitt -DE Zach Harrison, Ohio State -DE Anudike-Uzomah, Kansas State -DT Mazi Smith, Michigan 3rd Rd Targets -DT Gervon Dexter, Florida -NT Keanu Benton, Wisconsin -DE Adetomiwa Adebawore, Northwestern -DL Byron Young, Tennessee -DT Zack Pickens, South Carolina -DL Mike Morris, Michigan -DE Dylan Horton, TCU 4th Rd Targets -DT Byron Young, Alabama -DE Viliami Fehoko, San Jose St -DE Thomas Incoom, Central Michigan -DL Yaya Diabi, Louisville -DE Habakkuk Baldonado, Pitt 5th-7th Rd Targets -DE Isaiah McGuire, Missouri -DE Caleb Murphy, Ferris St -DE Derek Parish, Houston -DT Dante Stills, West Virginia -NT Elijah Simmons, Tennessee |
Okoronkwo is my absolutely no.1 target at DE. Said it elsewhere but he's been rotational but becoming a bigger part of the D every year. Solid against the run, has a pass rush win rate of something like 20%. An ascending guy that shouldn't break the bank. Would love to see him come in.
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Also Chris Wormley, Billings and Maurice Hurst at DT
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I'd put ER Dylan Horton as a 3rd round target.
Based on what I'm seeing out there, maybe I'm too high on McGuire. He gets the job done but it seems everyone has him 5th or later. |
Adding everyones suggestions to the list
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Calijah Kancey is rising up draft boards with Aaron Darnold comparisons, feels very much like a Chris Jones type to me. Why not double down on what's already working on our DL and add Kancey to Jones? Jones already gets the most double teams in the league, why try to free him up with a larger linemen and not use Jones to free up a second killer in the middle to eat up the QB instead?
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That's fine on passing downs, but if a team wants to run they'll just plow him over with double teams. |
I want Moro Ojomo. He's a five year player at Texas, but is still only 21. Lots of physical development to come and can play all over the line.
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I'm a big fan of Zacch Pickens think he's a 2-3 round kind of guy.
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*Assuming that Chris Jones is extended
Mike Danna, Frank Clark (could possibly be cut) and Turk Wharton all in contract years next year. Saunders, Dunlap and Nnadi are FA’s. Herring and Kaindoh are wasting oxygen. Chiefs need to draft multiple DL this Spring |
I am very high on Kancey and would be surprised if he fell to 32. He definitely has an Aaron Donald style of game and similar body type.
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KJ Henry is an intersting pick in the 4th round from Clemson. HEard some good things about him and have heard him compared favourably to Myles Murphy. I think Myles Murphy should also be on this list. He is starting to drop down boards.
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I really feel like this is a 'must re-stock the trenches' off-season.
Of course, I thought that last off-season too, and Veach zagged. But surely, DT, DE, and OT are the focus. Right? |
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Kancey only makes sense if we don’t get Jones extended. He probably doesn’t get a lot of snaps his rookie year with Jones and Wharton in front of him.
Kancey is not Aaron Donald, nor is he an Aaron Donald type. But he’s got the upside to be Tommie Harris, which would be more than enough for a 1st rounder, if you think he can hit that ceiling in three years. Personally I’d spend a 2nd on him, but only if you don’t extend Jones. |
There's only a few guys in this year's draft that can really play that NT position, seems like if we want one we'll have to target them probably by packaging picks for a trade or maybe Benton is available with our 2nd round pick.
Bryan Breese, 6-5 305 lbs Mazi Smith, 6-3 337 lbs Keeannu Benton, 6-4 312 Who am I missing? |
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I think Gervin Dexter has more juice against the run, personally. Feels a bit to me like Jarran Reed. |
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I'd say any of these can: Zacch Pickens, South Carolina Jaquelin Roy, LSU (prefer as a 3T) Keondre Coburn, Texas D.J. Dale, Alabama P.J. Mustipher, Penn State Jerrod Clark, Coastal Carolina |
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The last few that did all went in the top 12. Vita Vea, Dontari Poe, and Haloti Ngata come to mind. The shelf lives are usually shorter but the rewards are usually high in the short term. You can look at Danny Shelton in that group but Shelton didn't move like those other guys and he didn't disrupt double-teams like those other guys. I see a lot more of a Vea/Poe/Ngata with Ika's interior disruption than I do a Shelton who is much more of a leaner. |
I have trouble understanding our requirements for NT.
Pickens for instance is smaller than Chris Jones, aren't we looking for someone bigger? |
I could see Coburn being a really good pick in the late 3rd. Might go earlier in that round but I can't see him going in the first 2 rounds.
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I would take Ika in the 2nd. He's Haloti Ngata 2.0
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You've got to double Jones pass blocking because he's 300 pounds, with elite length, strength, and quickness. But if you want to run right at him, you still can, and if your guard is strong enough, you've got a fair chance at success. If you have a second DT that can win in run defense more often than not, then you create a real problem for offenses. A 275 pound guy is almost never going to be able to do that. |
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Spags largely runs his D-Line in a 1-gap scheme with Over/Under shifts depending on what the offense is presenting: Over if plus wide, Under if plus boundary. He'll stack LBs against 21 if the FB eliminates the plus else have them aligned to the strength. So that said, no, you don't need to have a beast of a NT that has 2-gap responsibility down after down. With that, however, when he runs an Under front, he's asking his NT to hold up against the strength of the formation to the boundary side, and a guy like Kancey might not be able to do that even if it's more likely that he's going against an outside zone run concept than power. Ideally, the DTs in Spag's defense have the ability to play both 3T and 1T in either alignment. Obviously, Chris Jones is a great differentiator but the point stands. Guys like Kancey, Ojomo, Stills, Lacy, and so on are great rotational pieces in the type of defense that Spags runs in order to give speed on obvious pass downs. Aaron Donald is a rare undersized but insanely strong dude with incredible disruptive capability. Kancey might be able to be that guy but I don't think he has the same strength that Aaron Donald has or had coming out. He's a guy you'd usually play as the 3T and move him to account for it, much like the Chiefs do with Jones, rather than asking your DTs to just switch up alignments. Don't get me wrong, I like Kancey, but if the Chiefs are intent on keeping Jones beyond 2023, he has diminishing value early in the draft. Kancey is too talented to fall to day 3 where the Chiefs would find more value in him as a rotational piece. You can likely get Ojomo, Stills, and Lacy in that half of the draft though. |
Thank you for the feedback! I see Kancey as a similar player to C Jones and I guess I'm wondering if we could play them both at the same time.
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Just looking around at later physical freaks and came across BJ Thompson out of Stephen F. Austin.
Super super SUPER raw, scrawny as hell (6'5" and maybe 240 lbs) but I think that's exactly the kind of guy you use a 7th rounder on and see if you can bulk him up. I mean that frame sure looks like it's 260+ waiting to happen and if so, he's just so damn explosive. He has really athletic feet and plus agility. Big time project player, don't get me wrong. I don't expect him to contribute this year and hell he may not do much the next. But that kind of length/quickness just isn't easy to get and if you can just add a little weight there and refine some of this hand fighting, you could have a real dangerous rusher on your hands at a minimal cost. |
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Maybe 225ish? And from the photos, I could probably buy that. He's thiiiiin. But I think in scouting speak that's called 'high cut' or 'angular' and not necessarily a deal breaker if you think you can get some good weight on him. But you're right - his pro day may really send his stock up. If he times out where he's projected and weighs in at 245+ he suddenly looks like a 5th round pick. |
Looking around at guys on teams drafted high with new FO's.....would Spags be able to use Isiah Simmons somehow?
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Or go the other way and make the guy a pass rusher in the Reddick mold. He's too athletic to waste. |
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At some point you have to actually be good at SOMETHING on a football field. |
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I'd just take a flyer on the guy for a late round pick and see what we could do. |
How high do we need to get to have a shot at Tyree Wilson?
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Also, what does everyone think of Zaven Collins? He seems like a prime Veach buy low candidate from a team going thru big changes.
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Collins offers some intriguing things but I'm not sure I see the fit. |
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I was just thinking about how we could get to 6.
Would require trading Jones probably. |
I know you think guys might think it's boring, but there's unlikely to be anyone worth reaching up for. It just doesn't seem to be that kind of draft. We'd better off staying put in those first three rounds and just drafting more good football players.
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Really good size for one of the top pass rushers in this class:<br><br>Felix Anudike-Uzomah (Kansas St) <br><br>6031<br>255<br>9 5/8 hand<br>33 1/2 arm<br>80 1/8 wing</p>— Daniel Jeremiah (@MoveTheSticks) <a href="https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/1631309542234488832?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 2, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Nolan Smith's combine presser. Man, I know everyone's probably right and he's too small, but dang I like this guy.
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Calijah Kancey, Pitt
I want to see alumni on the roster and love guy in the 2nd. |
Pest can **** off bc I’m stepping on this bandwagon. I ****ing love this kid.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/90tglksH9kE" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
More I watch Keondre Coburn the more I like him. Probably not much interest from the Chiefs though.
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Give me Poona Ford!!!
He would eat in our system |
Karl Brook is interesting, 6-4 300 lbs 20 sacks over the last 2 seasons.
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Calijah Kancey blew everyone away at the NFL Combine, now we're looking at an NFL mock draft for possible fits that could maximize the Pitt defensive lineman.
Every year at the NFL Combine, we see players significantly raise their stock for the NFL Draft with the way they wow with their athletic testing. And even though we knew Pitt Panthers defensive lineman Calijah Kancey was a beast, what he did on Thursday at the Combine turned heads everywhere. The Pittsburgh standout with 14.5 sacks and 27.5 tackles for loss over the past two seasons topped every defensive tackle in the 40-yard dash, the only test that he ran. But it was how he did that which had people buzzing. Kancey ran the 40 in 4.67 seconds, the fastest time by a defensive tackle at the NFL Combine since 2003. Moreover, he started drawing comparisons to another Pitt defensive tackle, some guy named Aaron Donald, for his explosiveness. Here are 3 fits for Kancey in the upcoming draft: NFL mock draft: Calijah Kancey fit No. 2 – Kansas City Chiefs Yes, the Kansas City Chiefs already have one superstar defensive tackle on the roster in Chris Jones. He had an argument for Defensive Player of the Year in his own right this past season and has been a dominant force for several years since he was drafted out of Mississippi State. It's the depth around him that will be a question for 2023, though. Both Khalen Saunders and Derrick Nnadi are set to hit free agency, as is defensive end Carlos Dunlap. They could bring some of those guys back, but it also stands to reason that the Chiefs would also like to get younger at the position and find a potential high-upside player to replenish the depth like Kancey. While I'm high on the potential of Kancey and even more so with the explosiveness shown in Indianapolis at the NFL Combine, his size does mean that he's going to need a defensive coordinator who is creative in figuring out how to maximize his athleticism and arsenal of pass-rushing moves. Steve Spagnuolo is a fantastic option to do that with the way he likes to mix up looks and move guys around in the front seven (and really all over the defense). Kancey could potentially thrive under that type of coaching and he would make a lot of sense if he was there with the 31st overall pick. |
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It's not the worst idea in the world. |
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That’s my thought with him. I think you’d use him like Mike Danna is used, except he’s more gifted than Danna. |
Some DL thoughts on the Combine:
* Zach Harrison of Ohio State did not participate... in case you're wondering if he's worried about being projected as stiff. His arm length of 36"!?!?! is insane. * The Chiefs can tender Tershawn Wharton... but if they don't, Ade Ade may be available early day 3? Or even Jalen Redmond. * I can't say I know enough about Jalen Redmond, but he looked fantastic at the Combine. He's got great athleticism for a DT. He's on the board if Wharton is off the roster. * Keondre Coburn is probably not a Chief anymore, with sub-32" arms. * Moro Ojomo sure looks like Tarzan, but I think he's going to play like Jane. His tape is pretty good, but he did not look very solid in the drills despite being the most physically gifted DT running them in my non-professional estimation. * I like Bresee's tape, but he didn't look super great in the drills. * I'm surprised by Keeanu Benton's nimble-ness. Solidly a 2nd rounder to me. Great run stuffer with some upside to do more than that. He's a day one starter next to Chris Jones. * I do not think Will McDonald or Nolan Smith are going to fall to 31. But if they do, they are foundational pieces who complement Karlaftis and would solidify our bookends for a decade. They are at the top of my board. * Edge guys we haven't talked a lot about who I think the Chiefs will sniff out later in the draft: YaYa Diaby, Tyler Lacy. * The 10-yard get off was phenomenal for YaYa -- 1.56 is otherwordly. Guy may sneak into the 2nd day. * The 10-yard get off for Ade Ade was also fantastic, and I think we may be sleeping on Jalen Redmond. 1.71 at 291 pounds is fantastic, and again, he looked so fluid in the drills. * Isaiah McGuire is not super physically gifted, but his arms are almost 34" long, his size checks all the Spags boxes, and he had a 1.72 get off, which is more than enough. I think he's a starter down the line, but he doesn't have the flashiness of the other options. If he's available in the 4th he'd be near or at the top of my board. |
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Is it just me or is anyone else not super impressed with McGuires tape? He always looks reaaaallly slow coming off the snap. Like he is always starting a step behind where he should be on passing downs.
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This NKC native wants to play for his hometown team, apparently.
https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/2023...hMINRq7gGRfkSI |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlT0-LL_hEg
A little short, but the kid is quick. I have no idea what round he's projected. |
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Those guys aren't making it to the Chiefs anyway so it doesn't really matter...
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ESPN's write up on Day 1 Workouts from DL behind paywall...
Spoiler!
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I really like Tuipuloto if he falls to us at #31.
At 265 it's clear he's and DE, guys got plenty of speed! |
ESPN's top 5 list for DE, OLB, & DT:
Spoiler!
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Feels like this DL class is gettin a lot of praise, super fast! Hope we get a couple!
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So... how bout Mazi Smith in the 1st?
He's not been talked about much, fits a need, got in a little trouble so he'll be there likely at the bottom of #1 but prob not the bottom of #2. What do you guys think of him playing next to CJ? |
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My shortlist at 31 at the edge is: 1. Isaiah Foskey, Notre Dame 2. Derick Hall, Auburn 3. Felix Anudike-Uzomah, Kansas State As much as I like Keion White, I think he and Karlafatis are both best suited as LDEs. I want a bit more juice opposite George. |
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Look at your options: Josh Allen, JAX Rashan Gary, GB Brian Burns, CAR Montez Sweat, WAS DJ Wonnum, MIN I don't know who else to really put on the list... Burns is a star in the making, obviously, but with that comes a huge contract so no. I would take my chances on a rookie over Allen and Gary. Sweat and Wonnum are the most likely targets I'd have but man... I hate paying a 1st then paying a guy. Not sure if I'd pay a 1 for Wonnum for sure but I do like him alot. If I did it, it'd be for Sweat. |
Piggy-backing off what I just said, I'd most love to send Washington a 2nd this year and 1st in 2024 for Sweat. Kind of the flip-flop of the trade we had for Clark.
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