So... we're like... *certain* Dawand Jones can't play LT?
 

I've been negatory on Dawand Jones being a Chief, because the Chiefs don't want two lumbering tackles.

Well now that Brown is taking off.... and he's the professional comparison for Jones....

I know the guy is 375, but you can get that down to 335. Those feet don't need to be much more nimble, and I think it makes the most sense for the Chiefs to solidify RT in free agency and go get the LT they believe in at the Draft.

And Jones... well.

We know the Chiefs liked what OBJ gave them at LT so much they offered him primo dollar.

Maybe they see enough of him in Jones.

I still want to see if we can get Dillard a shot. He is a better pass blocker than run blocker.

The Buckeyes played him a bit at LT as a Freshman and Sophomore but when they had to have a new starter when Petit-Frere left, they chose to slide Paris Johnson from LG to LT and leave Dawand at RT. So can he? Yeah, sure. He actually played okay there. That said, the Buckeyes didn't choose to put him there for a full season which is pretty telling in the end.

Anyhow, I honestly don't know how I feel about it. Just like with Freeland, I always worry about the super tall dudes at OT. I feel like 6'5" is the sweet spot. 6'6" is fine. 6'7"+ is starting to get into guys that really get a bit clunky with their kick slide, knee bend, reaching, etc. It's not that you can't live with those guys, you absolutely can. I just prefer my tackles to be a certain way.

I like him! Longest arm length ever recorded at the combine, probably the biggest guy ever recorded in the league.

Can you get him down to 335? Probably. Is that something that I want to be worried about every season? Nope.

You leave that to Reid, Heck, and Mahomes.

Heck is lol.

He's never developed anyone here. They either walked in the door a good player or they left as shitty as they were to begin with. I have absolutely zero faith in Heck ever developing anything, much less helping anyone with weight loss.

LDT?

What about the dudes who were kind of crap under Pioli like Jeff Allen?

Does Heck not get any credit for turning Wylie from an absolute nobody into a starting RT for a Super Bowl team?

Austin Reiter? We actually won a SB with that guy, you know. Hell, I'll even give him Cam Erving. That guy's career was DEAD in Cleveland, and when he left KC he managed to get paid by some other team.

There have been plenty of "who the **** is this guy" linemen to end up playing much better than what was expected out of them. I don't see how else you can credit anybody but Andy Heck for that.

Hell... Zach Fulton. Zach Fulton was a crashpost guard but arguably gave our offense entirely new life when he got moved to C. Isn't that Heck's thing? Playing guys at multiple positions?

We can do a lot worse than Andy Heck as our OL coach.

Allegretti

I suppose he has a few that weren't hitting my mind but it sure seems like it takes guys a long time to develop under him if they aren't plug-and-play (Creed and Smith were absolutely plug-and-play, both were talked about as potential 1st rounders... Creed slipped on length a bit and positional value and Smith for his heart thing) Fisher and LDT took like 5 years to be solid players. Fulton was a bit quicker. Morse was P&P. Allen was a pretty solid guard before Heck was here, not sure I give him much credit for a guy that started as a rookie and was a high 2nd round pick. Not sure I feel much about Wylie. He's a ****ing turnstile. He played well in the Super Bowl but I feel like that turf helped a lot. Meh.

I dunno, I don't think guys have developed all that well under his tutelage. Like you said, we could do alot worse but I also think we could do better. It is what it is. It just worries me to see the lack of progress with OBj and Niang and so on and projecting it to a tackle project in the draft. And I'll never understand him not pushing Reid to start anyone but Wylie at RT by mid-season. It worked out in the end but it wasn't pretty along the way and it damned near cost us more than once with some hits Mahomes took.

This is just dead ass wrong. Borderline reeruned.

He turned the Browns trashcan in Reiter and Wiley into adequate starters.
Morse turned into a top 5 Center.
Branden Albert was able to have a big year in 2013 and cashed in.
He had Remmers playing passable at RT.
Hudson had a big rebound under him in 2013.
Fisher became a solid starter.
Smith and Creed are high end.
Got adequate play from a lumbering OBJ that struggled with footwork.
Allegretti became a strong reserve player.

Yea, kinda sounds like you don't want to give Heck credit for anybody that was good right away or anybody that took some time.

Seems umm unfair.

The Chiefs get the most out of every OL that comes through that building. That speaks volumes.

Ya, I've been a fan of a lot of kccrow's takes, but this one isn't it, I don't think.

You guys can give credit to him for top 50 centers being good, I'm not. They should be ****ing good. A top 50 center is basically the top centers in college football every year. Once in a while one slips into the first round but most go where the Chiefs grabbed Morse and Hudson and Creed. Those are just guys you expect to start for your football team out the gate. That's going to be John Michael Schmitz this year for someone.

Wylie almost got Mahomes ****ing killed the past year and a half. A passable starter is beyond ridiculous to me. In what way was he passable? Passable in that the only game he was even remotely quality was in the Super Bowl where the turf aided him immensely because DEs couldn't get footing to launch into a rush? Otherwise, he was the worst tackle in the NFL.

And then we're going to give him credit for every player from past regimes that didn't suck to start with? Remmers and Albert? You can't be serious. Albert was a solid LT long before Heck got here. Remmers was already a starter at RT in the NFL before he got here. Remmers was inconsistent throughout his career and he was here too. Heck didn't do shit to improve them. That's just fluffy bullshit. If you want to give credit to developing Remmers, give it to the Oline coaches in Carolina and Minnesota.

Fisher was the 1st overall pick and took an easy 5 years to turn into a good LT. The 1st overall pick. Man alive, that's a guy that should be a good LT in short order. I get it was a down draft, but Fisher was a top-10 pick in pretty much any draft. He had the pedigree to be special and he was finally turning into special those last couple of seasons, too bad he had that Achilles.

OBj's pressures got worse each year. He's nearly as much a turnstile as Wylie. Thank **** Mahomes is mobile and aware. He sure saved our tackles' asses from doubling their sack totals.

I'll give him credit for Reiter, Allegretti, and LDT. Those were some project guys that worked out well that he made into solid starters. I can concede enough in the argument to say, sure, go ahead and give him a bit of passing credit for guys that did work out that should have (like Creed, Hudson, Morse, Smith) but there are few career examples of molding balls of clay into great players. LDT is the closest he has. I think he's just a very average Oline coach. He's certainly not special and he's not a guy I'd trust to make something out of a guy from something he maybe doesn't look like he already is. And that's where my argument is. Do I think he can turn Jones into a good LT? Nope, I really don't.

Albert was coming off a lot of downs vs ups before he got the big year in 2013 and cashed in.

Ask the Bills what they think about a slam dunk Center. lmao

Remmers was just fine for a trash can find.

Fisher is a top 10 pick in any draft? Get the **** out of here.

OBJ had a peak playoff run once they got him back into shape.

Ldt was average as ****, but still another trashcan development into a solid blocker.

Wylie was never meant to be more than what he is and they won 2 Super Bowls off it.

My point stands.

I'm still trying to figure out what your point is exactly. You're still trying to use players that other teams developed as a basis for your argument, which is extremely flawed.

I mean, did you forget Remmers started games for Carolina then signed a $30m deal and started in Minnesota? Garbage bin? Nah, end of career veteran stopgap but not some garbage bin raid that Heck coached up. Come on man.

The point is simple. His stock was in the toilet following the SB loss to Denver and he bounced around until the Chiefs plugged him in and got adequate play from him at RT.

Everything has been a rebuttal to your butt ****ing moronic statement, if you're still struggling to determine what's going on.

Heck did a good job with OBJ and Wylie in the playoffs. And I think OBJ's grades went up this season over last.

And let's not forget, Wylie was a back-up G. He was never supposed to be a T. So the fact that Heck got him to be good enough to basically stonewall Reddick is pretty good in my book.

i mean, I don't think Heck is probably the best OL coach in the league, but he's done a pretty good job since 2019. Think about it; in 2019 after Week1, the starting OL didn't take a snap together until Week 10. And somehow not only were they okay, but they actually improved over that two months. And it's not like the Chiefs OL is an easy job. There's a ton of movement, non-standard blocking schemes in both the passing game and the run . . . and they have to keep blocking for a lot longer than most OLs do with Pat running around back there.

You have no ****ing clue what you're talking about with regard to Remmers. Let me know when you figure it out and we can maybe discuss reality.

He's failed to develop two 3rd round RTs now and a 4th round OG. Let's see what he does with the 5th rounder that looked lost last offseason. Shall we not discuss those? I can give him a bit of a pass for Niang.

Morse was an OT at Missouri, but was plug and play at C?

Ok.

It's gonna have to be a no from me, dawg, on the whole take.

This is rich coming from the dumb ass that said Heck developed nothing.

You said a butt ****ing stupid statement. Just eat the ****ing loss for saying a dumbass thing instead of doubling and quadrupling down.
Somehow in his own butt ****ing moron logic, you just wake up randomly some day and development no longer happens.

In this case it always seems to happen before Andy Heck coaches them. How about that!

You are one miserable cock sucker man. You should have been banned from this forum years ago. Constantly attacking people. I'm arguing, not calling you a dumbass mother****er. But hey, I can play that game too.

Your dumbass should clearly not agree with Meck here because Morse started at Center in 2012 at Mizzou before he was moved to RT because of OL injuries. They kept him at RT in 2013 then moved him to LT in 2014. Andy Heck didn't need to teach Mitch how to ****ing play Center because he already had, in ****ing college.

You doubled down on your reeruned mother****ing take that Remmers was developed by Heck when all he was was a veteran ****ing bandaid that was a STARTING RT IN THE NFL FOR TWO FRANCHISES prior to coming to KC.

Heck can be not that great at his job and still have some positive effects on players. ****ing idiot.

Cry more, bitch. You're still wrong and dumb as hell.

I mean you keep doubling down and look even ****ing dumber each time you do. Having to play Center on a ravaged Mizzou OL for awhile doesn't mean he was close to refined when he got to the NFL.

Not even NFL ready talents are. All players have to be developed frequently. For someone that thinks they are smart, you sure are one ignorant twat.

Development never stops. Never. Do you understand the words I am saying or do I need to find a cousin ****er to translate into something your pea brain can understand?