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Veach and Reid have a template to compete each year
They are using a Bellicheck/Brady modified version they used to sustain success.
Basics:
Discipline
Seems obvious to me. What say you? |
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So when are the chiefs getting a great o-line and a solid defense? Carl Peterson did those
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There are certainly some similarities.
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You act like they intentionally let Hill walk with this plan to go with JAG WRs. No, they were close to offering him what he wanted and would have paid him a handsome contract. It didn’t work out, but they certainly didn’t plan to go with nobodies at WR.
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It's funny because the last couple of years, I actually felt that they've been copying the Giants model from those Eli Manning years.
DL in the first round, WRs in the second round. Gives them the meanest DL their resources can afford while keeping their QB's weapons stocked. |
Belicheat tended to trade down in the draft.
Also used those picks in bizarre ways on non-premium positions. Dude is a fraud without Brady. |
They've invested 2 2nds and a 3rd in the last 2 years at WR, I don't think "JAG and/or value FA" WRs is what they're going for. They've just been transitioning from a bonafide stud WR1 to a more diverse/deep group of skill sets on rookie deals.
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Sure, they don't have Tyreek anymore, but shit, unless everyone wants to spent first round picks on WR's, I'm not really sure what we want here. |
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MVS is a value WR, he's not a #1 WR, but his 11M contract is the most we are paying at the position. |
"We have to draft and develop, now that we're paying Mahomes to stay good long term we've gotta do it this way"..
Team drafts and tries to develop WR's thru the draft "These guys are jags what are we doing". |
JAG and or FA value WR's and RB's
Not exactly sure I agree with this take since they've taken some stabs with 2nd rounders to shore up their receivers. I think "value WR's" is something that the Chiefs will always take a look at because it's low hanging fruit. Richie James is a good example because he's coming from a bad passing offense- he's only earning ~1.25m with the Chiefs but James was responsible for 16.6% of the Giants receiving yards last year. If he was to have a similar year on the Chiefs, he'd be around a 850 yard receiver (not that I exactly expect that but 16% is nothing to sneeze at). Good front offices are always going to try and find value when there is a salary cap. Value receivers/running backs are typically going to be easier to find than the other positions you mentioned. It's a two way street also, receivers are going to want to come to Kansas City to see if they can parlay a successful season with a good passing offense into a bigger contract (see Juju). |
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JK |
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I know I’m in the minority but I would much rather feel really good about these positions before we focus on making our defense from great to elite. |
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"don't spend high picks or pay money" Ok well that leaves drafting and developing people. That's not gonna happen overnight and you're gonna go in with guys who may not be "quality" players before they have a chance to actually play. |
They've spent and drafted just as much on the offense as they have the defense. It's been spread pretty much equally.
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once again, there are more ways to get decent offensive weapons than JUST THE DRAFT! he also has trade options and free agency . the BVBWA members focus on lack of draft investment ( which also is TOTAlLY within Veach's control ) but the fact is that he has brought in no top flight offensive weapons through ANY of the three possible courses. this is a fact. cant wait to be called stupid by the ball washers. just an fyi , I have been a chefs fan for 55 years and sweated out the first super bowl win .love the chiefs and hope that all their picks/ trades/ signings are brilliant. I just don't measure every acquisition for their gold jacket in Canton just because they wear red uniforms. this makes me stupid , I guess?
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Either hit on your picks. Or if you can’t, get more aggressive in the draft. If mahomes can elevate below average players to good, he can elevate great players to elite. That needs to be way more of the mentality. You’re right it doesn’t happen overnight. We had years to groom a single WR2 behind tyreek (who could also become WR1) and didn’t. In fact, NONE of these guys are hitting elsewhere. We could easily have built OL depth but we drafted so poorly that we walked into the 2021 season with 4 brand new starters from outside the organization. And now we walk into the offseason where we need to sprint to replace TWO tackles. Where we have more questions than answers at WR. Look I love what we’ve done but we just have not been good at all at finding the most important offense skill positions outside of mahomes. We’ve got to do better. |
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The 2020 draft with CEH is what hurts the skill positions a bit with that whiff. They've also figured out that putting protection around Mahomes is probably more important than high end WRs it seems and figure Mahomes can develop the talent they've picked up in the early rounds at WR. |
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So you guys who want 'Blue chip prospects" need to just come out and say you don't like the picks, because they've spent high end capital on the offense. |
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Feels like if there’s an issue with development with Skyy or Rice, those 2 could pick up a bit of the slack. |
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You keep pushing this dumb ****ing narrative. They've now invested 2 2nds and a 3rd over the last year. Maybe have some ****ing patience for those guys to develop? |
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Look at tackle. Two stories. On the one hand we put a ton into LT and busted. On the other hand we’ve barely even tried at RT even if that meant poorly protecting mahomes. The front office is capable of doing better and of course it is a nitpick considering all the great they’ve done. But let’s not massage this by saying we’ve been very good at finding offensive talent since we drafted mahomes. We just haven’t been. Either we’ve tried and haven’t been successful. Or we should be trying harder. |
Mahomes first 3 years in the league he had the best RT in football
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As for the OL, they've put together a top 5 OL. They got better at OT this offseason. What the **** are you even talking about? |
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Tackle probably isn’t fair for us. We’re never gonna be drafting high enough to get a good LT unless Patrick has a season ending injury at the beginning of the year (knocking on wood furiously). But I like the Taylor pickup. Don’t care if he’s playing RT or LT. Thuney, Creed, Trey and Taylor is one hell of a 4 man OL. If Smith is even competent that will put us in the top 5. |
I don't for a second think the Chiefs don't value WR, after them trying to keep Hill and going after AJ Brown tells me all I need to know about the value of that position to them.
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We knew we needed two starters at vital Tackle positions and have had a few years to address. We went two seasons with subpar play and once again have to scramble for immediate replacements because we couldn’t develop a single option in house. At WR… we have not developed a single WR that has been anything but a situational guy. Maybe that changes with skyy and rashee. But historically we have not done well so the criticism is warranted. I get the optimism but in the past 2 years we’ve had bad play at Tackle and WR and we still have big time question marks at both positions going into the season. It’s not ideal and it’s the type of thing you need to address before the dam bursts not after. |
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It is not just one draft. It is every draft since mahomes. It’s the uncomfortable truth. But our offensive talent eval has simply not been good and we’ve probably been using the greatness of 4 HOFs to not see it for what it is. |
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If you're including RB, they literally just hit on a 7th round badass last year. Again, you're ****ing reeruned. |
They haven't put much investment into skill positions to this point.
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The fact is this… when we had money we went full blast at upgrading our defense. Understandably so. Now that we have less money we’re using the best and most of our best draft picks on defense. Which is fine. But that’s unsettling when we have so many question marks on offense. I don’t know how anyone can dispute at this point that defense is getting way more attention than the offense is. We have quality starters and depth at EVERY defensive position. Sorry I love what we’ve done with this team. But we don’t need to sugarcoat it. I get if you want to be optimistic that we’re finally addressing it. But how can anyone claim that in terms of new talent added weve graded anything but a C or lower on the two most important non qb skill positions (WR, OT) |
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On top of addressing WR and OT we haven’t done anything to build a pipeline of young OL. So we’re trending towards spending $50m+ on interior OL which doesn’t feel like it should be a priority for a team that is being cap careful. Our defense is in a great spot but at some point you can only go far throwing bandaids on the offense. We are a little more rickety than we care to admit.
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I think we’re leaning too far in the direction of creating a complete defense while asking Reid and mahomes to work with lesser ingredients. Yes we are winning despite those warts. And no greater example than putting mahomes behind an OL that was once horrible, and more recently has been very problematic on the edges. We can acknowledge our offense has still been very good while also recognizing that this is really not ideal. |
Can't believe CP is actually on board with building up the Chiefs in the Patriot's Way.
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You realize we've won two Super Bowls and appeared in 3 the past 4 years, right? What you consider "rickety" most fans only dream of seeing. Football isn't won and lost on paper. Coaching, chemistry and culture make more of a difference in this sport than any other, not to mention having first ballot HOF'ers at HC, QB, TE and DT. You can win a lot of games building just a decent roster around a core like that, especially with how watered down this league is. |
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Because it's unrealistic.
They've spent draft picks and money on the OL. They have had highly paid T's, highly drafted T's, highly paid Wr's, highly paid TE's. They didn't spend high picks on WR's because they had one of the best in the league (they spent a 2nd on a WR actually while they had one). Mahomes is making 20 percent of the cap. This is just the way it is gonna be. There's only so much to go around and they've gotta figure where they can get the most WAR out of the money left. Sorry....but it seems to be working pretty well. Sure, it's not perfect. It's never going to be. They haven't built a young pipeline of OL? That's just....wrong. I'm not even sure what we're getting at here? |
Reiter had to play when Morse got knocked out. Remmers when Fisher and Schwartz got knocked out.
This is just dumb. |
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You heard that right. The position that they used a day 2 pick on 3 years in a row and just signed Tranquil. |
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You can only really protect the guys on the active roster. You have really 9 spots after that you risk losing them. When your competing for Super Bowls pretty much every spot on the active roster needs to be ready for primetime at a moments notice. It is not like you can stash 3 OL that are just developmental. Your lucky to be able DL 1 and maybe keep 1 on the active roster. |
The JAG WR theory will get tested if/when Kelce begins to see a decline in his production due to age.
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BUT...I am an offense first guy. Even if Rice is excellent, Toney is elite and healthy and Moore steps up, I'm probably still looking for more weapons at SOME point in the draft. If we have anything less than that I'm probably going early again. We know Mahomes can win it all with one elite receiver and a lot of OK, but I really want to make sure we keep that one elite option available. |
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The Fire was the Sb when everyone got hurt. Well, yeah...no shit. |
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2021 missing on Clyde instead of Higgens hurt some. Think the jury still out on Moore (whether better then Pickens) and obviously Rice. Watson GB looks good but we would have had to take him over Karlaftis or McDuffie. So bottom line they took some swings at Wr. Have not hit a home run but they have spent some capitol on the offense. I think they have done a good job of letting the talent in the draft dictate the picks and you can always go back and Monday morning QB the picks but for the most part theey have done pretty well for picking pretty much at the end of teach round every year. The end of the first your never guaranteed a starter and so you really have to take the best available guy that has a chance to play significant snaps for you. |
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Guarantee you other teams are going to try their version of it too. Quote:
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Who knows what they do when he retires in two years? He’s got a future in media. Make plenty of money, bang supermodels and no one is looking to take his head off. But, that time ain’t next year. The SB train is still on the rails. |
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I'm confused. We just won the Superbowl for the 2nd time in 4 years. Been there 3 times, won the AFC West 7 straight times and hosted the AFCCG 5 straight times and we have someone in here complaining about talent development??? I mean, what does it take to make this guy happy? The Chiefs are the best team in the league and Veach is regarded as a top GM as well. This just blows me away that with a resume like that, that this guy has the nerve to think that he knows better than our front office. SMH.
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It's unrealistic to demand that all positions have an excellent, proven starter along with a young talented player behind them at all times.
This is absurd. Wringing hands about 2024 is silly. As always, some younguns will surprise, some things that look shaky in May will turn out to be strengths, and some things that look strong on paper will need shoring up. Each year, we'll say goodbye to good players, and hello to new ones. And each year, we will be serious contenders for the Super Bowl. You have to draft well, and you have to play the kids to develop them. Mahomes plus best 52. This is the way. |
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At defense we have put a lot of effort and done good work to not only set all our starters, we have a lot of depth too. On offense we have had low quality play at both Tackles and a big question mark around 1 this year. At WR for 5 years we did not bring in a single prospect who could even compete for WR3 let alone WR1. So now we are setting that lineup largely on potential vs having guys actually set. It is very fair to say we’ve done great on defense but have not set our offense yet. Mahomes/Reid/kelce can and have covered warts. I don’t think that needs to be an excuse to be complacent. Like I said maybe wanya and rice and skyy finally fix these gaps. But they are gaps where we need to move from bandaids to solutions. |
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They can't afford a bunch of expensive free agents, which means they need to draft and develop talent. Like first rounder Toney (for a third) Skyy, Rice are second rounders. That's three high draft picks in twelve months. How is that complacent? And Ritchie caught almost 60 balls from Danny Dimes for ****'s sake. We added THREE OT's in the past two months. Two of them veterans. That's not insignificant. We had a big hole at DE, we added Omenihu, drafted Felix in the first, and took Thompson late. That's not ignoring the issue. What do you expect exactly? There's nothing complacent here. |
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I gave you guys and Virch the blueprint a couple years ago.
1) Draft Defense, priority. The reason is you want young fast fresh legs that are reactive to the moves of the offensive players. 2) support your offense through Free Agency mostly. Those guys will know what to do, they follow the game plan and don't have to rely on being reactionary to other player so much. 3) Use your top two picks to get stars , whether they are on O or D. Satisfy your CAP issues by drafting the high paying positions, especially on D. Edge and CB Veach has listened to my words. |
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We walked into last season knowing juju was our WR1. This is after 5 years of flat out ignoring WR. When we lost tyreek we had literally nobody who could even step into a WR3 role. Yeah we’ve spent a lot of picks. Because we HAD to fill THREE WR spots and technically 5. Two years in a row we’ve replaced the majority of our WR room. We walked into last season settling for Wylie at RT. And don’t tell me that niang and kinnard represents “effort.” This year we are walking into camp with Donovan ****ing smith at LT. which is a glaring lack of confidence in niang and kinnard. And it was done because there is understandably concerns about throwing a third round pick out there right away to protect mahomes. Especially given that the last 2 RTs we drafted were busts. And while we’re at it, Pacheco was a brilliant pick but it also came with luck. Because we waited 7 rounds to take him. We were content to have CEH start for us last year too. So yeah… we have a complete defense. And for 2 years in a row we have glaring question marks at critical offense skill positions. One of them is vital to keeping our qb upright. Turning over the entire room every year is not a sign of effort. It’s a sign that what we’ve done in the past hasn’t worked. I’m not saying it won’t work, but let’s stop using the excuse that mahomes and Reid to elevate talent to sugarcoat that we need to do better at addressing those two positions. Much better. And yeah, i grade that as more important than falling a few spots on defense because we god forbid have a single hole in it. |
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A Toney trade ( first round pick), Skyy (2nd round pick), Rice (2nd round pick), Morris (3rd), all acquired in the last 12months. Creed, Niang, Clyde all early picks. Struck gold late with Smith and Pacheco. Taylor the big ticket FA. We invested in defense because it was needed, just like WR, and just like OT. We're paying Mahomes nearly 20% of our cap. Most significant investment is going to be via the draft. Your premise is so off, I can't believe you believe it yourself. You might think you'd have chosen different players, or in a different order, but to act like they're sitting on their hands is nonsense. |
Do yourself a favor - go look at the top 5 WRs in the NFL last season, and see if you notice anything.
*Edit - in case you don't want to, you'll see that ONE of the top five was a first round pick, Justin Jefferson. So this idea that they're not going after playmakers and are ok with JAGS is a load of hooey. |
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"We are putting our first and second priority on building the defense" Only somebody completely ignoring reality could come to this conclusion. Their two biggest FA signings over the last 3 years have been a G and a T. Like you said, 3 day 2 picks on WR over the last two offseasons. It's nonsensical. |
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Stefon Diggs played for a rookie OC and a team decimated by injury AJ Brown went to the SB and went 96 yards and a TD. |
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I am saying we have a history of getting guys who became JAGs. That isn’t speculation. That is known. We have downright failed to replace fisher OR schwartz. In 5 years we have not found a single WR in the draft who can be Sammy Watkins let alone tyreek. Toney was a great get but settling for guys like Mvs and juju is not an ideal path and I hate the narrative that some have set thar as a fine bar to reach. Unless you’re sugarcoating it the truth is mahomes has elevated JAG talent the past few years. Instead of celebrating this and acting like this is the right approach, how about we give this guy something to work with. Either we’re aggressive enough but have to do WAY better at hitting with what we have. Or we haven’t emphasize it enough. |
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Perhaps bottom 10 defense is not the best idea. Maybe beefing up the defense, especially if you are going young at WR, that might be sensible. Just my thought. Diggs plays for the Bills, who we're supposed to be terrified of. AJ Brown, who was a second round pick, went for 96 and a TD. He's pretty good, huh? By the way, MVS went for 116 and a TD in the previous game. But who's counting? We've invested a substantial amount in WR's. It's just been very recent, so everyone is freaking out because there's no body of work yet. |
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