Offsides reality
 

Looking at the offsides on Toney and the “Let them play” mentality a few things stick out.

1. He was offsides and like it or not, that is inexcusable on his part. Toney should never line up offsides…….ever. That’s a Pee Wee league type of mistake. He didn’t just start playing football this year. Pre snap penalties are the worst because they are completely preventable. He should have never left it up to a ref to decide one way or another, especially with the quality of reffing league wide lately.

2. I get the “Let them play” mindset and not letting a questionable call impact a game. But it can’t be “Let them play” when convenient and when not calls should be made. Look at the SB when KC benefited from a penalty that essentially sealed the game. Had the refs swallowed the whistle like what was wanted today KC might well have lost the SB. We benefited from that penalty. But today we want to yell at the clouds because it was called. Both times the penalty was called, just this time it went against KC.

3. Even after the penalty they still had time to pick up the yards and score a TD and is systemic of how the offense has played for large portions of the year. This team has a championship caliber defense, but the offense is not what we all expect. That might mean an early exit this year. Simply put if the offense hasn’t figured it out by now I question whether they will.

It is what it is.

hmmmmm... you pretty much nailed it.

Nice job.

Yep. I get Reid and Mahomes' frustration in general (the DPI last week, the 3 or 4 or 10 challenges this week, and so on), but that one particular call is a strange hill to die on, IMO. And I'm sure the previous calls and even last week, and the frustrations of the offense in general built up to what we saw on the sidelines.

It gives Buffalo the distraction to extend McDermott PBJ

Mahomes' frustrations has reached the boiling point.

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/fb/c3/6d/f...6a02d41a10.jpg

Mcderpitt was so relieved when the ball hit the ground on 4th down.

It's a crime that he coached that final series so poorly on offense and gets to sneak out with a win.

Toney should have lined up onsides.

Hopefully Andy is properly holding him accountable behind closed doors, if he would rather make it a refs issue to the media.

Being 6” offside has literally no effect on the play which is why it is almost never called. The hold on Juju in the Super Bowl had an impact on what the play could be. It’s a stupid comparison. Toney also checked with the referee before the snap. KC was robbed of a TD by Cheffer’s crew. Not sure they win the game because Buffalo would have had a shot to go down and win it, but the call was bullshit.

He was CLEARLY offsides….I mean clearly…wasn’t a bullshit call.

Just do something that’s the most elementary of things to do and it doesn’t get called, period.

The offense had the ball twice with opportunities to win the game in the fourth quarter and failed each time. This isn’t on the refs.

It was a penalty.

If Toney’s not getting held accountable in the locker room it says a lot about the issues on the field this year imo.

I get Patrick’s frustration only if Toney checked and got an affirmation from the ref pre snap.

All the reports are that he didn’t check

People keep saying he checked… have we seen any evidence of such? And it’s his fault either way he shouldn’t have to rely on the line judge to make sure he isn’t offside.

Can someone help me out. Could Humphrey possibly made him offsides? I wonder if he grabbed the ball when he lined up and possibly moved it back at all?

I’ll be interested to see Replay from the all-22 and if he checked with the ref

I was taught that you TELL the ref whether you are on the LOS or not so he can ensure there is at least 7 men on the LoS. IF the ref tells you that you need to scoot up or back, that's just a benefit of him being nice... as it's not a mandatory job of his to ensure you do your job correctly.

Nonetheless its common in football. From many accounts he got an ok by one ref and either that ref or a different ref called it anyway. Its almost like none of you have ever played football before. Thats why its so rarely called because A) they give the offense huge leeway for it 2) refs will warn you first, 3) refs will even allow and tell you to correct it

welp, I played (was no statistic all-star, but I knew the WR position well) and I recall telling the ref I was on/off the LoS, not asking him.

Yes, there were times one would be nice enough to help me adjust, but it wasn't his job to do it and I thanked him.


now...
On this play, Toney was lined up near the inner hash so he wasn't in speaking distance of the line judge. It will be interesting if the All22 shows Toney give the ref a signal and what the response of that is before Toney turns his head back into the ball.

NFL officials are laughing at just how easy it is to manipulate outcomes of games.

All of what was said in the OP is accurate, but I'm going to laugh next time we lose when there was a penalty and the NFL decides to say, "we were letting them play", or "it was a bang-bang play", or "I can't make that call at that point in the game", or "I can't call what I don't choose to see".

It's fine to take the high road, but when coach is fined for his version of the truth it'll be pretty clear that I'm right (again).

FWIW, former Seahawks TE Luke Wilson, the analyst on the Canadian sports network TSN, just laid the blame entirely on Toney for being oblivious as to where he was.

He did say there's a legitimate gripe by Mahomes/Reid in the sense that there's usually a dialogue or warning given for guys who are close on the line of scrimmage, but that it's really not that hard to not line up that clearly offsides and that he managed to do it thousands of times without any issue.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So are we gonna talk about TWO CBS employees being forced by CBS to delete their reporting that Toney DID check his position with the officials?<br><br>This is a coverup that both CBS and the NFL have to answer for. <a href="https://t.co/nwvlEz4ndP">pic.twitter.com/nwvlEz4ndP</a></p>&mdash; Master Chief 🏈 (@MasterChiefs15) <a href="https://twitter.com/MasterChiefs15/status/1734053852326900026?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 11, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

He'll **** up in some other way in the next few weeks to knock his team out of the playoffs anyway.

Officials know their instructions and exactly how to achieve it with, or without, player's support. In the case of Toney, he's an official's dream in relation to manipulating the outcome of games.

Reality is Von Miller was offsides on the next play. It was the same side if the field too.

Fishy, very fishy.

I will acknowledge that Toney made his bed...would be nice to get a definitive look to see if he was micro inches over...and if somehow the same crew that saw Toney missed Von Miller being offsides.

But the officiating errors are getting silly...look at the Offsides they called on Jones this week that last week was called on our O Lineman. That one was just plain silly.

What I would like is better officiating...as shown by the horrible calls of the past 2 weeks.

You can't deny it.

I coached Pee Wee league this year, the refs were responsible for telling our WR's if they were offside, and they did a great job of doing it and we had zero WR's and TE's offside. Unlike the NFL.

Will there ever be a "reality of the missed/uncalled O-line hold" thread where the NFL officials are taken to task for what was "technically" or "actually" a hold by the definition of the rule, but not called? I know, I know, "default excuse" - "there a hold on every play"...

I didn't think so. Again, the point is the official(s) make call that manipulate the outcome of games, and there's really no debating that.

Errors? That all depends on who you talk to and what their motives is/are.

AI has a future in a football league that wants officials to be better.

Can anybody name any officiating crew from the 70s or 80s?

Cheffers and his shenanigans has made him a household name. And not in a good way..

BTW, instead of numbers I think officials should now have to have their names on their shirts since they're such an important part of the outcome of most games.

Just got home and watched the replay. Ok, you are going to call Toney offsides then how can you miss the blatant illegal contact on the same play against Toney at 10 yards by two Bills after calling it on Watson the series before.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Brittany Mahomes, wife of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> Patrick Mahomes, posted that the refs were the &quot;MVP&quot; in the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bills?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Bills</a> game...<a href="https://t.co/PTHXbzHfqY">https://t.co/PTHXbzHfqY</a> <a href="https://t.co/ggKJ3ZuzKh">pic.twitter.com/ggKJ3ZuzKh</a></p>&mdash; Dov Kleiman (@NFL_DovKleiman) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1734042491953754217?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 11, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

NFL officials call everything they see but only see what they want.

NFL officials are part-timers for a reason. Useless assholes.

I had no idea that referee cock tasted that delicious.

I'm more frustrated that it cost us an awesome highlight by kelce. It's like the superbowl superman drop. Should be an all time nfl highlight.

It was a penalty. My problem is Von Miller clearly had a penalty too. Which conveniently wasn’t called. It’s the same ref with the same eyes.

Posting this in all the threads about bad calls this week. Sorry in advance for Q.

Every time a shitty call or no-call is made, we hear the same "if we would've scored more points, it wouldn't have come down to the refs." Last week, we would've been in the red zone if not for a terrible no-call. This week, we would've had a touchdown if not for the terrible call. Who's to say that other big plays wouldn't have been totally wiped off by refs? Nowadays, every play is like the punt returns of a few years back. Any big return and you expected a "block in the back, receiving team" to take it off the board.

**** the refs.

Why would Humphrey be that far from the line of scrimmage? That's crap, need better photo

Where are all those reeruns that said Toney was barely offsides?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBElDY7X...g&name=900x900

Nothing like your $1B qb painting a target on the team for the rest of the refs to shoot at


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Honestly if they didnt have toney they could have got taylor again.


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Looking at that photo it looks like neither of our tackles was on the line of scrimmage. Much as I hated the result we deserved that call. I also believe Miller should have been called off sides on the next play. Thay's the problem this year; You never know when the officials are going to call a penalty. There's no consistency. :banghead:

Yep saw that too

They already had a target, Cris Collinsworth basically ruined the season.

That is the key, it's like the go-to, "there's a hold on every play", it's when they choose to enforce it that's causing people to get pissed and call the league rigged.

Again, watch the entire play. Toney was absolutely mugged at 10 yard by two Bills, after Watson was called the series before. Should have been illegal contact and offsetting as well. These calls were made or it ignored by the same two officials who didn't call Von Miller offside and the one who called illegal contact on Watson. Just be ****ing consistent.

NFL officials call everything they see but only see what they want.

I've heard that somewhere..

I mentioned it somewhere else but it’s possible that Creed has moved the ball from the original line of scrimmage at this point. I’m actually inclined to think that’s the case given where the defenders are lined up. Looks like the 49 yard line was the original line of scrimmage.

BUT I’m not going to blame the ref there. Someone else already mentioned it, but they could easily have gotten Jawaab Taylor for illegal formation AGAIN. He is too far back. We committed two pre-snap penalties on this one play. This is on us. Our players are ****ing stupid.

Good ****ing God. It's actually embarrassing the way Reid and Mahomes were and are carrying on when that's the penalty.

Got a link for that? Tracy Wolfson, the sideline reporter for CBS, tweeted that she confirmed that Toney did in fact check with the refs.

All that Toney had to do was hold his hand up, ask the line judge "Am I good?" and he would have been fine.

It's done at every level of the game. This is just another dumb mistake by a team that makes far more than their fair share of.

I don't think you understand why they're mad.

They feel like they they got hosed by not getting an obvious call last week, they didn't rip the refs etc..then this week they're on the other side and for screwed too. So frustration of apparently no matter what we do we lose reached a tipping point.

That’s the problem this year. The offense doesn’t have the talent to offset their mistakes.

Every ****ing professional sports team, EVER, has had to deal with refball. You know how you mitigate it? By playing fundamentally sound and disciplined ball and taking it out of their hands as much as possible. Having your WR line up completely offsides while your RT is lined up improperly, AGAIN, is the exact opposite.

They do not have the offensive talent to overcome calls...this has reached a point of they feel targeted and know they can't just say **** it and win anyway

That's mental softness and poor coaching. Blame the organization, not the refs.

You can blame them for thinking that WR room was good enough.

They didn't say it but they're mad bc they lost the 1 seed and they know it. That's why they were throwing hands with the Bills earlier in the game.

That was a must win game for them and they ****ed it up on a penalty that has never been called on Andy Reid or Patrick Mahomes until last night

Creed "always" moves ball back from line of scrimmage pre snap. No idea why.

This.

In past years, 3rd and 15 was very possible.

Not anymore

offensive offsides is never called

I literally can't remember the last time I've seen this called

if its something that's never called , it's just frustrating that they call it at that moment.

It probably happens a lot so them choosing to call it right then seems lame

then to top it off, they didn't call the defensive offsides right after

When the Chiefs commit a penalty, I expect the refs to not throw a flag. When the other team commits a penalty, I expect the refs to throw a flag. That's where I'm at.

Yes! This is the majority of Andy and Patrick’s ire. And they expressed it as such.

Buffalo gets a parade tomorrow, let them have their reprieve from Josh's mediocre playoff record

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mahomes is right. It shouldn&#39;t have been offsides.<br><br>It should have been offsides AND illegal formation <a href="https://t.co/nIReATWo92">https://t.co/nIReATWo92</a> <a href="https://t.co/NCEEavlqY8">pic.twitter.com/NCEEavlqY8</a></p>&mdash; Low Ceilings l Cover 1 �� (@LowBuffa) <a href="https://twitter.com/LowBuffa/status/1734209024499892248?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 11, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It was a gifted series. If Buffalo simply runs the ball on their last set of downs, they eat up the clock and its game over.

They had three chances last week to seal the game, and failed.

Their second half play is atrocious and are wasting the best defense we've seen in years.

This all looks eerily familiar, and that's not a good sign.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">As I just referenced on <a href="https://twitter.com/gmfb?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@gmfb</a> (per researcher Rich Goldberg), the last time the <a href="https://twitter.com/Chiefs?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Chiefs</a> have been called for an offensive offsides was 1995. <br><br>Jeff Criswell was called for offensive offsides in 1995 Week 7 against the Patriots.</p>&mdash; Peter Schrager (@PSchrags) <a href="https://twitter.com/PSchrags/status/1734190041595847075?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 11, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Can I program the algorithm? The Chiefs would do very well in that situationROFL

All centers do it, tbh.

They’ve got to snap the ball and get their hands up to block. The less distance that ball has to travel to be snapped, the sooner they can get their hands up and on a defender.

**** you KaPOSdarius Toney. That mofo needs to get thrown off of this team. And I mean actually thrown out the door.

The envelopes will be showing up in the dropbox

There are three inter-related beefs with the call.

1. It's customary for the officials to correct alignment, but they did not do it in this critical situation.

2. Even knowing they didn't do it, they threw the flag and called back a key play for a foul that didn't affect the play.

3. It's so rare a penalty that it's the first one for an Andy Reid team ever, and the first one for the Chiefs in almost 30 years.


The penalty is Toney's fault. He's guilty. He's got to not be stupid and line up properly.

But the beefs are, "Is this really the way we want the game officiated?"

Players rely on the officials to correct alignment but then penalties get called when the officials don't do it.

Officials say they want players to determine the outcome, but they determined the outcome here over a very minor infraction that didn't affect the play.

But the penalty is Toney's fault. His empty headed screwups have cost us at least 2 games.

I remember getting called repeatedly for ticky-tacky things in a flag football game. Then the middle linebacker beat me so when the play turned up field at the sideline, I clipped him square in the middle of his back and sent him squirreling out of bounds pure cheap shot. Thinking I might as well get my moneys worth since they’re going to tick tack all game. Guess what? I didn’t get called for that one.

fair assessment.

Kind of like.......do we really want to call a cheap pass interference in the endzone on a last-second hail mary?

****ed by Cheffers again. Everyone knew it was going to happen too. You may not have known how. But if we're being honest with ourselves, we all knew that a whacky Cheffers penalty would largely affect the outcome of this game. Again.

yep. and contrary to popular narrative, it's not because he sucks at his job......it's because he's actually very good at it.

I'm asking this question because I don't really know but does the alignment assistance from the officials only come after the player asks or do they offer it up unsolicited as well?

The NFL will always find a way to get their desired outcome. Remember, the NFL has defended its ways in court by admitting that they are "entertainment" (Jets fan sues after Pats get caught cheating and no action was taken to strip them of wins), so it's all theater. This time is just so happens that the call is/was technically correct, but only used when the NFL needs something to manipulate a game's outcome.

What's really funny is after the NFL and NFL apologists defend that call, which is fine, they'll spin the wheel of excuses to write-off other penalties they don't call. Here's the current "NFL Official's Wheel of Bad/Wrong/Missed Calls Excuse":

1) It was a bang-bang play
2) We can't see everything
3) We can't call THAT at THAT point in the game
4) We were letting them play at that moment in the game
5) Players shouldn't allow bad calls to affect a game
6) Geeez we're part-time employees, this ain't even our main job
7) We're not perfect
8) XYZ is subjective
9) There's a hold on every play, we can't call them all or nobody would score
10) Radio silence

but they didn't get screwed he was obviously offsides. That was a easy call. You teach kids in JV to point to the ref to check. Last weeks PI obviously should have been called. But the refs called the previous two plays in KC's favor and that would have been 3 plays in a row. The roughing call on Mahomes shouldn't had been called he was clearly in the field of play and the next play the KCC receiver was clearly down inbounds and the clock should have continued to run. The bottomline is the PI has to be called . The inconsistent officiating has season long effects. One bad call bleeds into another game time and time again.

Are we not entertained?

The more I think about it and the money that these players make for playing a game, the less I'm inclined to even care about sports.

We get bent out of shape, upset, rage on the internet for days and what is the outcome?

The officiating was greatly biased from the beginning. The Oline holding by Buffalo was ignored until it was so obvious late in the 3rd they had to call it, the 2 OPI's on Kelce were contact before 5 yards and they were try to play bump an run on him. They want Buffalo in the playoffs so they tried to steer the game in that direction, period. If that isn't the reason, the spread being -1.5 for the Chiefs, may be the reason, and the league is going to start hearing these rumblings if they continue to have questionable calls every ****ing week in most games.