HVAC cost
 

I know prices have shot up since covid but still I got sticker shock on a quote to swap out AC and furnace. $16,500.

Carrier 3 ton 16 SEER AC, and 96% two stage 100k furnace plus thermostat and duct cleaning. 10 year parts 1 year labor, 20 years on heat exchangers.

High cost of living city. Is this the new normal? I know I need more quotes but this outfit has the best reputation for install and service.

Both existing 17 years old. AC is fine but furnace exchangers are cracked and prices will keep rising so doing both. Really appreciate the advice!

Wow. That seems like that's pretty high, but also I live in a shithole city. Plus I "know s guy".

Going to have my central and furnace swapped out. Mine are 25+ years old.

Glad that shit was just replaced in my house before i bought it.

That was me. But now, it's 25 years later. ROFL

Just burn ur house down. Collect insurance before I pay 17k on a hvac

Nothing says a friend like insurance fraud

That sounds steep to me, we replaced just the AC seven years ago. The Trane furnace is 25 years old but why replace it when it still runs like a champ.

See about just replacing the furnace only so you won’t take such a big hit in the pocket book.

Did you have other places give you a bid on their products?

A lot steep if you live in a rural or low cost area
A little steep if you live in mid America
Cheap if you live in a major city like New York or California

Carrier reputation has gone to shit

That's stupid high.

Check out the Pioneer heat pumps instead.

Straight drop in for your existing HVAC, and will provide heat down to -15F, and very efficient.

https://a.co/d/jjv2WaU

The above is more than you need, but they make 3 ton units.

Also, heat exchangers are cheap and easy to replace yourself.

We had ours replaced in Jan of 2023 and got quotes from several outfits. Our highest was around that $16k mark, but we ended up getting it done for $9k...pretty much the same specs as you mentioned.

:banghead::banghead:

I knew I should have asked CP first!

Yes that is pretty damn high. The 3 ton is the most common size. So it should be cheaper than that. I bet you can get it done for $9500 to $12K with the same equipment or Trane equipment.

On this same topic, I want to get a mini split in my garage. Nearly 5k installed are the quotes. That is like 3k labor for what amounts to a half day work.

We had a 2.5 ton 80% unit installed last month for less than $10K, with a lifetime warranty on the heat exchanger and compressor. Included the humidifier.

ROFL If it is only half a day I am wondering how many people are going to be doing this work. Plus if they are doing the correct "work" it will take some time to pull a vacuum on the lines and evaporator. Then the charging takes time. If it is a reputable brand then there is some registration paperwork required for the warranty. That paperwork is inputting all the settings and data from the installation, pressures, and such at what temps, etc.
Let us not forget you are paying for their expertise as well as all the required things to have, run, operate, and make a profit in a business. Have you noticed how much everything has gone up in price that it takes to operate a business?
If you are buying a good name-brand mini-split and it is more than 12,000 btu I bet your guess on price of equipment is off by at least $1k.

Wow thanks so much fellows! These numbers give me a good idea about where to draw the line. I'm getting another quote this afternoon. This feels too much like car shopping but worse because it's harder to get benchmarks.

Are you in KC metro?

in KC and was quoted in October for 6k for both furnace and AC. 2k sq ft house

Interesting. This kinda looks like a mix between your traditional unit and a mini-split.

Do you have this unit or have experience with it and reliability?

What brand name of furnace and AC was it. That sounds a little to cheap.

Seems maybe a little higher than what we paid, but not much. We did a Bryant 2.5-ton, 13 SEER AC plus an 80% efficient, two-stage furnace with a variable variable speed ECM motor and a bypass humidifier for about $11k. This was in 2022 in north Denver.

Is it one zone (1 unit) or two zone (2 units)? It's a one zone that is definitely on the high side. It it's two zone it is on the very low side.

That's exactly what we put in last month for $9,700. I thought it was a great price.

By the way, right now is a great time to make this type of purchase. A lot of companies have people sitting around and they will make deals to get jobs.

We are talking a 10000 BTU pre charged. My breaker box is also 10 feet away from the install location.
I think you did hit the nail on the head. They don’t really want to do them because they make more doing something else.

Ok north Denver should be a good comp for cost of living and weather. I'll ask them what the less efficient furnace would be. Bryant and Carrier are same equipment.

Sounds high to me.

In '22: 2 Lennox ML180 Furnaces, 2 CX-35 Lennox Coils, 1 Lennox ML14XC1-024 Air Conditioner, 1 Lennox ML14XC1-030 Air Conditioner, 2 Thermostats, installation, and 1 year service.

It came in right at $15,5.

We looked at Carrier first, but it was too high...Lennox has been just fine.

I work in HVAC sales, granted I'm not in KC, but central Missouri, so I would think labor costs would be similar. My 3 ton 18 SEER 2 stage AC with a 96% 2 stage furnace with variable speed blower is under 12k. We do a 17 SEER AC with a 93% furnace (all single stage, it's our budget system) for 10k. This is all Lennox equipment, so it's not "no name" garbage.

I'd say they're a bit high.

High powered fan + mister

Fireplace

Save alot of money

Wow perfect! Can you give me a sense of what the price difference would be for 14 SEER vs 17 on that AC?

Central MO will definitely be cheaper than out here, I'd guess at least 20 percent. Thanks so much!

Please tell me your being sarcastic, I just looked up a random heat exchanger, I know I wouldn't consider this cheap.

https://www.hvacpartsshop.com/13x36-...bly-612222-07/

And it literally requires removing every component from the upper half of your furnace (the only items that will stay in are your circuit board & blower in most cases) everything will have to be removed un wired & replaced & re wired when you're done. You're in essence rebuilding 80% of the furnace down to the case. The vast majority of people have nowhere near the skill/tools required to install a heat exchanger.

Due to weird pricing from Lennox that 17 SEER is my cheapest unit, the 14 SEER actually costs about $400 more :shrug:

I had my furnace repaired this winter, and the big companies were at least twice as much as local small guys...I assume the same goes for replacement. Furnaces aren't very complex. They can definitely be poorly installed, but 9/10 companies should be able to deliver the same installation and product quality. Try the small local guys or get a local referral and pay about half the price you mentioned!

Ah weird, thanks.

Would you say a Lennox is significantly better than a pretty reliable brand like Goodman? I know they say Trane is better for coastal weather...

Goodman is kinda a weird example. They were bought out by Daikin a couple years ago. Daikin is huge in Europe & they redid some of Goodmans designs. Historically Goodman was known in the industry for being cut rate crap, but I'm not sure that's still true & haven't dealt with their equipment since the buyout as I don't run much service anymore.

Honestly if you stick with Trane, Lennox, Carrier you're usually going to be OK, anything else is a crapshoot in my experience.

God I'm going to hate when both my AC's go out. 25+ years old on both. Both have been struggling a little bit the past couple years. Hoping to hold out as long as possible.

It's gotten crazy & even as someone who is selling the stuff (as opposed to buying it) it sticker shocks me when a new price book comes out. I just pulled my 2020 price book. My base 3 ton gas furnace/AC was 6k, now it's 10k. It's virtually doubled in 3 years & that's basically across the board, all prices have gone up by about the same %.

I wanted to also address this because the bolded isn't really true. In some cases it can be, low end electric furnaces are still pretty simple. But any gas furnace is pretty complex at this point, and the high end ones can be very complex with DC driven inverters, variable speed blowers & exhaust fans & even variable capacity gas valves. Some of them even have proprietary computer style communication which can self diagnose issues.

Good info, thanks!

Dude I am an owner of an HVAC company. All condensers are precharged. The line set is precharged with nitrogen. The indoor unit and the line set will have to be vacuumed down to remove any noncondensables before releasing freon into the system. I could go on about everything that has to be done. It is obvious you think you know but you don't.

Replaced a 3t Carrier and an old Carrier furnace in 2022 with a 3.5t Ruud HVAC for $7700. Ruud is made by Rheem so I'm not too concerned. Not so sure I would be down for more than double that price for a Carrier though.

I got a new furnace and ac about 5 years ago from Anthony for 10k..had a 2.5 ton blower in it.

I think he's referring to the line sets. They make what they call DIY kits which come with pre charged lines (freon) so there's no need to pull vacuum etc. They work like the old quick connects. The issue with this usually comes down to the fact that those DIY kits are not what pro's are installing, we're installing better quality equipment & usually higher efficiency. Even if you can get a name brand unit, it's still not the same as what a pro is quoting you.

I've had several people take my quotes deduct the cheapest mini split unit they can find online & assume the rest is what I'm charging for labor. And we don't want to install the cheap DIY units because we don't want to take the heat from customers when they break down. It will invariably be the HVAC companies fault despite the fact that the customer hand picked the cheapest equipment they could find.

I got mine done last July. $14k

5 ton variable speed Lennox 11000 BTU furnace
4 ton, variable speed 18 seer Bosch heat pump
humidifier

It hurt to do, but we also were able to claim a $2,000 tax credit for the heat pump too

I've had to replace two HVAC systems over the last 3 years and the cost is pretty much in line with what I had to pay. Prices on systems have gone through the roof and are going to keep going up due to new efficiency requirement standards.

In 2021 we spent $14k on two Lennox units, a 3 ton and a 4 ton. This includes a 15 year warranty. I realize cost has gone up but your quote seems really high.

Alright all you guys are making me feel much better about this, thank you! Just got a better quote from a just as reputable company with a very straightforward salesman.

12.2k if I do the one stage furnace instead of two stage, and give up the variable speed fan motor.

14.5 with those two upgrades. Given that until 4 years ago I lived for 17 years in the mountains with wood stove heat and no AC, I'm thinking I won't miss those "luxuries", but let me know if I'm really missing out and should invest the 2,300. Thanks again!

For my place, the biggest advantage of the variable speed motor is that you can set it way low and just have the fan running all the time without costing a fortune (I estimate it costs me around $8/month). I've got major hot/cold spots in our master bedroom on the upper floor, and running the fan all the time helps to even things out a bit. If you've otherwise been pretty comfortable with a simple one-stage system, you can definitely live without the upgrade.

SC, in sales, how much are you expected to negotiate with customers? Does your management give you much wiggle room on price? Trying to understand if this is supposed to be like buying a car where some haggling is expected. I'm not worried about 5-10 percent sort of thing, just trying not to pay 30 percent more.

Ah I'm on one level, can see where that would matter more with two. Thanks!

What did you say to me mother ****er? I'll post the private message if u don't want to

It has only been five years ago we did a 16 SEER Amana heat pump, 3 1/2 ton for $8,100 and I thought that was theft.

Last week our accountant said the installer was now getting close to 25k for similar product.

Heat pump?

I’ve got a 135 ton Daikan going up on a roof next week for just north of 400k. Good deal fellas?

How the hell do normal people afford this shit? Do you fiance it and make payments for a decade? Dust your savings account? Take money from your 401k?

After getting my roof and gutters done it seems like you can be $20k into home repairs before you even blink.

I'm fortunate to have the cash but yeah I asked the last salesman. He said they do zero interest for a year and then something above 6 percent. I'm sure a lot of people are going into debt to keep their house warm which sucks.

Then he's telling me about people who spare no expense and drop 40 grand like it's nothing. He had one extremely wealthy lady he asked, do you want the best like what originally came with the house and she said honey, the best has never been too good for me. Imagine being married to her.

My parents are retired and have been kicking around the idea of replacing their furnace all winter long, it's the same age as i am. I almost stroked out when they told me what their quote was (i think it was $12,000 and change). I could swing that if i absolutely had to, but I'd cry when i handed the check over.

Paying off 12-15k in a year at zero % would be like doubling your mortgage for most people I'd reckon.

Daikan equipment are POS. Them and McQuay are the worst two manufacturers of large chillers bar none.

I think "normal" people rent. They just get mad when the landlord tells them that he is going to raise the rent.
Most people do not own.

On the biggest HVAC unit I replaced, it had the variable speed motor. One advantage to it over the old system was how much quieter it is. As another poster had said, when it is running on the lowest speed, I can't hear the thing running.

On the second system, for our upstairs, I went with the 2 speed setup. Even when the kids are home from school visiting and the AC seems to be on all the time, it stays on low speed the majority of the time.

With the combination of the efficiency of the new systems and the new fan setups, my AC bills dropped over a $100 a month at the peak summer months heat last year.

I do have some wiggle room, but not much. We're pretty tight on margins & my jobs are tracked by profit so if I'm not making enough I won't get commission & if it happens enough I'm probably going to hear about it. If anything I'm usually adding to book prices to account for site issues. Generally speaking I only come down if there's some justification for it in the job. (like they don't need heat in their electric furnace so I can cut out the heat pack price)

The one thing I can recommend is if they offer financing ask if they do a cash discount. Despite what they tell you free financing isn't free, the company is paying for it & they're adding that cost onto your quote. If you aren't going to use the financing a lot of places will give you that money back if you know to ask for it.

My biggest selling point on the VS fans is noise reduction & humidity control. (by moving air slower across the coil it removes more humidity per pass) Energy savings are nice but they don't generally equal a lot as the blower doesn't use a ton of electricity, and you also have to consider you now have a very expensive blower motor in there & if it goes out any savings you made will go into the repair.

The noise reduction due to running in low speed is super nice, but you also have to consider that on extreme temperature days it's going to have to run at a higher speed so it will still make close to the same noise at that point.

Thanks so much for everything SC, super helpful!

You don't want to know the estimate on replacing all of the windows in my house.

When we were shopping we left with the impression that we definitely needed more than 3 quotes. A lot of schmucks out there and quotes were absolutely all over the place. We had dolts quoting us in the 20s.

In January of 22' We got

Lennox 4 ton 2-stage furnace, 96% AFUE, GAS
Lennox 4 ton 2-stage 18 seer AC, Electric
New 50 Gal water heater, Gas
Whole home Humidifier,
Ecobee Thermostat
Maintenace agreement (for whatever that's worth)

We paid almost 13K, but I'm confident that it could be done on the cheap. For what it's worth we felt comfortable with the group that did the installation.

35k

Hurry up and tell!!! The suspense is killing me!!!

I’m going to guess $135k.

Nuh uh :bolt:

I'm going to guess

https://media1.tenor.com/m/6PFS7ABeJ...on-dollars.gif

I’ll see your million and raise you another.

I said you don't want to know.












But ya......

Are they stained glass? Do you live in a glass skyscraper or a mansion with 75 windows? In what world do windows cost 2/3 what i paid for my house?

First, I have a bunch of windows. Second, they were Pella windows with blinds installed, etc. Just completely blew my mind.

I bet they are really easy to see through as well as open/close.

Definitely nice windows. But, I'll just stick with the ones I've got for that price.

Good ****ing God man. I knew windows were an arm and a leg but i don't really know what to say to that.