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Do you believe that Pro Football Focus is any good at grading players?
(https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=353554)
Do you believe that Pro Football Focus is any good at grading players?
I'm not qualified to say. As an Ohio State fan I always enjoy reading the grades players received after each game. There is no way for the average fan to truly know how well ALL of the individual players played.
For instance, a former Ohio State coach created his own podcast and he obtains game videos and breaks them down for fans and essentially grades the players' performances. For a rabid fan, it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Does anyone do that for K.C. games? Anyway, PFF DOES and so my question is, again, do you believe they're any good at it? |
Their grades are pretty irrelevant but they do track some specific in depth statistics that are actually very useful for putting together a strong narrative about a player.
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I think their OL and DL grades are typically decent. Those are pretty straight forward to grade.
Their QB and skill position or back 7 grades are mostly useless. Those positions are just way too subjective. QB especially. Unless you can sit down with the QB and Coach to discuss the play call and all that, you can never get the full context. Also, a guy like Mahomes can get easy throws because he’s Mahomes. Teams have to respect everything he can do, which occasionally creates busts in the defense. How do you grade that? |
PFF provides an explanation but I seriously doubt that their grades would match the grades that NFL teams give after watching their own film.
Player grades at Ohio State are given by assistants who know which offensive and defensive call was for every snap and so they can knowledgeably ascertain how each player executed their responsibility on every play. Obviously, PFF doesn't have that benefit. Still, they give it a shot with the information they have. I enjoy their site; I just don't know how accurate are their grades. |
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I think PFF can provide some decent anaysis/info. Sometimes. Sometimes their takes are BS. But I also think that there's not one site or analyst that can adequately analyze the whole game or player most of the time. I think you have to gather analyses from as many credible analysts as you can, like Kurt Warner and JT O'Sullivan (even Jordan Palmer) for the QB/WR general offense stuff, Baldinger for defense, and so on. The idea is to find a consensus among several analysts. If that meshes with whatever PFF says, it's probably accurate. IF not, I tend to go with Kurt or JT or Baldy over PFF.
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No. They don't know the assignments. They have the dumbest criteria imaginable and they don't even hide they are just an entertainment site.
They should not be taken seriously. |
Nope but Veach is
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PFF is absolute shit unless they grade a KC Chiefs player well in which case then they’re spot on!!!
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**** Ohio State.
And **** you. |
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https://www.pro-football-reference.c...2020_draft.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.c...2021_draft.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.c...2022_draft.htm |
No not really.
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However, I also know that all 32 NFL teams pay for their services. Fans think their rankings are off because we think we know what a good football player, a bad football player, and a great football player look like, and when their rankings don't match our eyes, or even the stats, we assume they are idiots. What we don't know, and probably never will, is what criteria the NFL teams have given, per team and as a league, to PFF as far as skills, traits, tendencies, etc. that they find desirable or not, and how much of that criteria goes into the player scores that the general public can see. We have all probably had the Chiefs cut players we thought were better than others, or kept players we thought were trash, like keeping Ben Niemann on the team over almost anyone, and that just illustrates that maybe we don't always know exactly what the Chiefs value, or maybe we know what they value and we just don't agree with them. In conclusion, it's all subjective, and PFF should feel lucky Veach decided to become an NFL GM. |
How can you possibly "grade" a player when you aren't basing it off the assignment or play call ROFL it's COMPLETELY ridiculous
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You have basement Podcasters try to break it down but it's super cringey
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The grades are absolutely worthless at all positions. There was a game in 2022 where Frank Clark beat Trent Williams on back to back plays that resulted in a safety and slammed the door shut on any possibility they could even attempt to come back into the game. He almost got a 90 in PBLK that game. Complete Bupkus.
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Yeah, I probably wasn't clear enough in my original post. All I meant was that PFF's grades were generally worthless, to the point that I rarely bother to remember them, but sometimes their analyses about how they arrived at the score/rating can be useful. Sometimes. |
I don’t trust them. Week 1 of 2022 season against the Cardinals. Mahomes had one of the best games of his career. PFF graded him 70/100, which is barely starting QB level. It made no sense.
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I put this > < much stock in their takes |
I dont believe any article or talking head.
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It’s easy to look at PFF stats and ratings, as it’s hard to find anything else that breaks it into numbers.
But I think you have to know somethings wrong when, for example, you look at how they rated last year‘s QBs. The OP’s guy, Stroud, is ranked number 13. given what he did last year and where he took his team, I just think that’s way too low. I think I would’ve easily ranked Stroud above Herbert, Cousins, Tua, Stafford and Prescott. Goeff(At 10) and Love [at 12) also got rated way too low in my view based on what they did and where they took their teams. I think that I would put Stroud slightly ahead of those 2 largely due to his league leading low of only five interceptions. But I could be convinced easily to rearrange those three rankings. Purdy came in at 6 and I would leave him ahead of Stroud, although I believe I am a bigger fan of Purdy than many on this board. The top three were respectively, Allen, Mahomes and Jackson and I would not argue too much with that, although of course I feel Mahomes should have topped the list. So I think the quarterback rankings are a good illustration of how misleading the PFF stats and rankings can be. |
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What the assignment was is most irrelevant outside of the obvious. Stop being obtuse |
Short answer: Nope
They’re consistently trash. |
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I worked for pff very briefly (2 seasons) but i have no loyalty to them at all and as somebody who has coached this sport I am very much old school when it comes to analytics. My only point is that the notion that you cant analyse a play because you don't know the specific assignment is reductive at best. |
Obviously it's not a perfect science but when it comes to grading players nothing is. I like PFF overall, especially their draft content and draft board.
Also when the Chiefs sign some aging veteran like Mike Pennel I like to see what they generally excelled at over the years. Overall PFF definately has their uses. The year the Chiefs drafted Chenal, George, and McDuffie a guy on their draft show called them the "PFF Kansas City Chiefs." They drafted the highest player on their board three out of the first four selections and it was a home run draft. That's a huge feather in their cal. The Chiefs did have a moment like that in the last draft too. The safety they took in the fourth round knocked the PFF guys off their feet. They loved it, instantly declared one of the biggest steals in the draft. Fun times. |
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Football is too complex with too many pieces to be analyzed in that way and broken down to a number. |
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PFF grades from my understanding is largely a measurement of efficency they are not trying to overly analyse scheme. Box scores, QBR, and any other statistics by your argument are useless because football is "too complex" |
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I'll give you a good example of how PFF is shitty. There was a play in the Chiefs vs. Ravens AFC Championship game where Travis Kelce admitted he didn't agree with the play call being changed and he freelanced a route that wasn't in the play call. He admits this put Patrick in a bad position where he ended up having to scramble around and then end up throwing to Kelce late out of desperation. Kelce had to make an amazing diving catch for the completion. On that play, Mahomes would have been downgraded because the pass wasn't "accurate" because some jackass at PFF who doesn't understand shit about the game saw that Kelce had to dive to make the catch. So, **** off with your "I coached the game" and that makes PFF legitimate bullshit. |
PFF loved William Bartee.
(Probably) |
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Whatever reerun, go back trying to turn your tv on with the calculator. Christ you're a stupid **** |
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People fear what they do not understand
Pff grades are purely a measurement of efficiency but you rednecks get your kunts all bloody about it. Totally pathetic |
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You asked for explanations and I gave you a really good one. That apparently turned you into a raging pussy. Have some toast and beans and chill out. PFF doesn't need anymore apologists. They already have Chris Collinsworth. |
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Danguard got super butthurt wow, and he richly deserved it LMAO
That said, I'm NOT a fan of constantly shitting on our BritNation fans ... 99% of them coming in here are good chaps who actually know their team, and I appreciate that Unfortunate as it may be, I likely have English blood in me! :spock: |
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I think they’re trying to track on an X and Y axis but the balls is shaped like Hey Arnold’s head.
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OLine and DLine...okay. Otherwise, the other positions are just way, way too subjective despending on system, schedules, or other intangibles.
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Don’t look now, but PFF has George Kittle ranked 1st among all TEs for 2024-25 above 2nd place Travis.
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PFF does outline more in-depth statistics quite well including statistics based on position at the snap. (Mostly defensive personnel and where they are lined up).
Their grades though.... personally not a fan. |
Sneed was the definition of a shutdown corner last year. PFF had him as the 13th best CB in the league. No way. In fact I think they had Josh Williams ranked ahead of him at the end of the regular season.
I’m not sure how they grade CBs. For example, 2nd quarter 3rd and 10 at the oppositions 30 yard line. CB is playing off. Opposing WR catches a 7 yard pass and is immediately tackled. 4th and 3, forces a punt. Is that a positive or negative grade for the CB? In my book that’s 100% a win for the defender. |
My opinion from last offseason:
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I will say their mock draft generator was fun, although Houston didn't pick any of the players that I picked for them. |
The issue with PFF is that it works well in a vacuum but it doesn’t factor in scheme effectively. It doesn’t do a great job of addressing what the coach or coaching staff is asking the player to do.
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Has there been any discussion on here related to how PFF has seemingly gotten their comeuppance for a shit product with nearly anyone with any real talent having jumped ship the past year or so? Everyone is gone, the names you see associated with PFF are nearly unrecognizable. What a shame, **** ‘em.
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No but I believe in big foot.
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Who cares. Football is not a game of numbers. Baseball is a game of numbers. Going by numbers Marino had them all when he retired and nothing to show for it. Box score doesn't tell the story of who won a game.
Football is a game of the 3rd and 4th quarter. That's where QB's, coaches and teams make a difference. |
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https://www.wideleft.football/p/what...ppening-to-pff |
Look, we’ve been over this. If PFF grades out a Chiefs player as excellent, then yes, they are a very knowledgeable and reputable organization. If they don’t, then we scoff at their ignorance and wish death upon every person that collects an undeserved paycheck from that God-awful, shitty mess of a group of ass-hats.
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I'm a fan.
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