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Let's talk 2025 roster build (12/7)
I know we got a threepeat to complete, but I'm thinking ahead today... let's take this position by position:
QB: I'd bring Wentz back. Perfect backup and IDK where else he can go and find a better job unless (God forbid) he plays this year. RB: I'd bring Hunt back on a minimum deal. Go into the draft with Pacheco and Hunt, find a speed back in the draft who is capable of taking the job post-2025. WR: If not for Rice's impending suspension, I'd feel good here. I'd look to bring Hopkins and Hollywood both back on 1-2 year deals. If the group will stay healthy, I think we will find they're really good. Rice and Worthy will be perfect complements to one another as WR 1 and 2. But you need to get by while Rice is out and you need depth for injury. I'd be fine with Hardman and Watson as WR 5 & 6. TE: Does Kelce retire? If he doesn't, this can be left alone probably unless they think Wiley sucks. If Kelce does retire... I'd think you need to at least slap a solid vet bandaid on and see if Gray can take the TE1 reigns. I think he can simply because he's so steady. Not Kelce, but damn solid. OT: Biggest need obviously. We will see if Humphries earns a new deal. Scares me with his injury history but if he looks good... we can't let a good LT walk away. Hopefully Kingsley can become a legit swing tackle at minimum with a shot to take over a starting job in 2026. Taylor is here another year, perhaps two more. IOL: I'd give Thuney a short extension to alleviate his cap hit if he plans to play much longer. Let Wanya, Nourzad, and Hanson compete for the RG job. If someone falls to you in the draft, take it and run. Protecting Pat is always priority #1. --- DL: Need another legit pass rusher with juice. I'd hope that also retaining Omenihu is a priority. I'd prefer that over Trey Smith and maybe even Bolton at this point, especially if it can be a one-year deal that he takes to try and get paid in 2026. Need to bring our big run stuffers back on 1-year deals per usual. LB: Tranquill hasn't been as good this year, which makes keeping Bolton seem a bit more important. I hope he can be retained at a reasonable cost, and if he can, we can roll with the same trio into 2025. CB: Have to get another slot corner who can be there in case Trent can't -- which only takes a single injury to the room. Get another young guy or two in the room for in the inevitable departures of some of our 2022 Fab Five guys. Preferrably mid rounds. S: I think Hicks is ready to take over Reid's role by next year. Not an urgent need at the position, especially if you add another viable slot corner that lets Conner stay at safety. Specialists: Bring Araiza back on RFA deal, everything should stay the same there. Rough stab at what a 53-man could look like in '25: QB - Mahomes, Wentz RB - Pacheco, Hunt, draft pick WR - Rice, Worthy, Hopkins, Hollywood, Hardman, Watson TE - Kelce, Gray, Wiley LT - Vet (Humphries?), Morris LG - Thuney, Nourzad C - Humphrey, Nourzad RG - Kingsley, Hanson RT - Taylor, Driscoll - DE - Karlaftis, Danna DT - Jones, Wharton or an early draft pick NT - A couple cheap fatties, vets or rookies DE - Omenihu, FAU, draft pick (first two days) LB - Bolton, Tranquill, Leo CB - Trent, Watson, Williams, vet slot corner, draft pick S - Hicks, Cook, Conner Feel like I'm probably leaving out a fairly nice FA signing or two but hard to project there until we see what the market will be. |
Agree with most things you said Pugs. I differ in a few different areas:
-they are 100% letting Trey walk -Thuney is the best OL on the team and they will work on his contract to free up space IMO -Hopkins or Hollywood need to stay next year due to Rice’s suspension -I think Omenihu needs to be a high priority player to keep since we have not had the success we want with Felix and Karlaftis OL predicament: -We aren’t trading the house to move up for a “maybe” prospect at LT. I don’t think that is something Veach will do. He’s aggressive but not stupid. -There will be possibilities for us at LT I. The market. Humphries (if he plays well) and Cam Robinson seem to be the guys. They are Donovan Smith level at worst and we’ve seen that’s good enough. -I have heard Verderame say Kingsley should/will move to G for weeks. Nate Taylor floated it and so did Matt Derrick. That’s not a coincidence. I think that’s exactly what they’re planning. I’ve read some scouting reports on Kingsley and the big takeaway was he fell so far bc teams weren’t sure if he was a tackle or a G but loved his size/athleticism. Read this. This guy nailed Kingsley and his issues from what we’ve seen. Suggested he would be far better (and good) at G and I agree. https://firstroundmock.com/2024/04/u...oogle_vignette -Assuming we have figure out LT before the draft, I’d say our biggest needs are interior rusher, corner, RB and ball hawking safety. RB and LB is easy to fill to fill in FA or mid rounds. I would not be surprised if we took multiple DB’s with 2 of our 4 top 100 picks. That’s a huge part of Spags defense |
Hey, if Kingsley becomes a legit replacement for Trey, that's a much better use of the pick than what it appears so far. We can work with that.
I mean, could he be a nasty demeanor guy too just like Trey and his cousin Penei? Could do a lot worse and would think the change alone allows for a confidence reset. That scouting report appears spot on and I recall Nick Jacobs also pre-draft saying he didn't have great feet. In our scheme, it's just a must with the drops Patrick takes. You HAVE to be able to move laterally, back and forth even. |
Maybe you go Wanya as swing tackle then?
He's at least proven capable of getting through games at the position when he's healthy. What, 12-15 career starts now? And especially if it were to be like RT, I wouldn't be overly concerned there. |
Veach has his work cut out for him at the LT position.
I agree, if Thuney wants to keep going by all means extend him to a more cap friendly deal. Smith walks, and someone else pays him handsomely and we get a nice comp pick next season. The good news with our young tackle prospects is that at the very least they can be excellent guards and hopefully a RT in the future. I don’t know what the answer is at LT, but man if DJ could be transitional LT for a year out two it would be huge. I know we need to see him play, but God I love his mental make up. This is a huge opportunity for him. He’s a lottery ticket. I’m rooting for the dude. I agree we need to invest on the pass rush. I also think it would be wise to again invest at the CB and LB positions in those middle rounds. I want them to draft another WR in this draft. Preferably someone who can return kicks and and provide depth. We obviously need a 3 down rounding back with some speed. And keep throwing darts at the TE position if there is a guy you like. |
Any idea what Atlanta has planned for Kyle Pitts?
I think he has one year left in Atlanta. If Kelce retires, would you flip them a pick and extend? Or just roll with Gray? |
I do t see any reason why Atlanta would do it. They want to win too.
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He’s been a little disappointing since his rookie year though. If they don’t want to extend him, then they may take the draft capital and move on. No clue that that asking price would be. |
Yes Wanya can try at G but ideally he might be the swing tackle. Nobody has a great swing tackle. The hope is they can cover a few games and not **** up.
Wanya fits that role |
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I’d bring Pennel back one more year. He is an elite run stuffer. Lovett can back him up and develop. |
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I think if Humphries is above average and stays healthy through the playoffs, you just sign him to a reasonable deal with availability incentives and let Smith walk.
Wanya's just not great in space, but has shown some 'tude on running plays. I'd put him in the mix with Nourad and co. to take RG. Agree on RB. On WR, I'd bring back Hopkins for sure, and probably Brown as the lost season isn't going to help his 'prove it' deal. I do wonder a bit if bringing Brown back will slow Worthy's progression. But as we learned this season, can't have too many weapons. I think you roll with Gray and Wylie and maybe a mid to late rounder. I don't think you ever replace Kelce, and it's a fool's errand to try. You just move to a WR oriented offense like nearly everyone else and have solid TE's . Nothing wrong with that. We really need a 'win fast' pass rush threat. We've got too many 'high effort' types. We'll see what Omenihu does down the stretch, but I really feel like maybe we might want to spend on a speed rusher in FA. |
All of the corners but McDuffie are FA’s after next year. Not sure we will be able to afford to keep both McDuffie and Watson. The situation with Steven Nelson says it all about depth.
Need to draft a versatile corner badly. Probably one early and another on day 3. Keep in mind the Chargers and Broncos will be loading up on weapons the coming offseason. Would also like a guy with tools and experience like a Kobie Turner to replace Turk Wharton inside. Assuming a guy in-house replaces Trey and they got with a vet at Lt I’d for Corner, interior pass rusher offensive weapon (TE or RB) and S with the first 4 picks |
Josh Simmons maybe our guy in the 1st round, Veach has always thrown "numbers" at positions of need like DBs in the 2022 draft
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I'll have more thoughts later on this thread.
But you brought up an interesting point in the OP. If you let Trey and Bolton walk, you can bring back Omenihu, and perhaps Willie Gay. That gives you a Gay-Tranquil-Chenal linebacker corps and a good passrush off the edges. I do think you're going to have to trade resources to move up and get a tackle, and tell Andy Heck this is his last stand. Wanya to RG. Spend some resources in the secondary; I'd like to retain Justin Reid but I trust Veach to body out that secondary. Maybe bring Brown back on a prove-it deal, giving us a Rice-Worthy-Brown WR corps. Kelce plays out the last year of his deal. Spend a second day pick on RB. Profit. |
Willie Gay isn't coming back.
Bolton does alot more than we see, so they'll keep him. |
Said it in another thread. I wouldn’t be mad if Veach drafted a G like Graham Barton in the late 1st and locked up the interior long term.
I don’t like seeing Mahomes get knocked around |
Ideally, Veach get’s creative with the cap and can keep Smith, Bolton, Hopkins, Brown, and Omenihu. There’s always a way. NFL contracts are flexible enough to dance around the cap. Signing bonuses, restructures, extensions, whatever…. 4-peat!
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You can find good G's and Lb's in the 2nd/3rd/4th round.
I'm full on BPA early. We need to be looking to develop high end guys to take the mantle here. |
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When you start chasing stuff, you run the risk of whiffing on some important picks and setting your roster back pretty dramatically. This franchise has shown under Andy and Pat that they can chameleon to whatever they need to in order to win games. |
If the BPA is a S, take him. If it's a G, fine.
But don't go shoehorning yourself. |
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I'm fully on board with build the trenches, work back from there at this point. |
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No more FAU’s or Kingsley’s. Can’t have players providing nothing, especially year 1 |
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They swung at a DE and a LT and seems to have missed, jury still out.
That's fine. Positional wise, that's just the way they're gonna have to do things. |
Yeah I'm starting to think chasing positional value even isn't worth the squeeze unless it's your BPA.
Puka Nacua is a high positional value, elite player taken in the fifth round. He looked really good in college. There's a guy like that every year at the WR, CB, or pass rusher positions. If not a few. Creed and Bolton were not high value positions but I'd make those picks again every single time. Get really good players and let the coaches figure out how to win with them. |
You don't know what holes you have until they're gaping.
Just keep stacking good players wherever you can. |
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This team lacks explosion. That last thing they need to do is turtle up. |
It needs to be a corner, pass rusher or tackle in rd 1.
But either way they can’t keep blowing these early picks and getting nothing from them. They need someone to bring something the table as a rookie |
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Seems like they did the smart thing. |
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Most rookies aren't gonna be hits right off the bat, especially where we draft. They need good football players. The rest will sort itself out. |
Referring to FAU and Kingsley. They were developmental players. I get the swing and missed but man they need their 1st 2 picks out there producing year 1.
Sucks but thats needed in the NFL. |
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And really the last 4 second rounds haven’t been too bad either:
Bolton and Humphrey Moore and Cook Rice Kingsley Moore is a bad bust. Kingsley is an incomplete grade as of now. Cook was an okay pick. The other 3 were great picks. |
I mean the Colts spent a ton of resources to protect Andrew Luck and he still got the shit beat outta him and retired way too soon.
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He still came away with an injury. That’s more of a Luck issue than anything (no pun intended). |
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NFL is very unforgiving even with one bad year. We all love Spags and Merritt but it’s not been a great year for them aside from Hicks. Nazeeh isn’t playable, Williams was in the dog house, Conner has struggled mightily in the slot and their day 3 rookie Kamal Hadden didn’t even make it through camp. It’s not just defense. Kingsley and Wanya haven’t worked out and it’s crippled the offense |
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This team makes ZERO big plays anymore. No bombs, no INTs, no sacks, no breakaway runs, nothing. They've already spent a ridiculous amount of resources on the offensive line. They need to get splash players. |
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Plus they've got the QB part, which is always the limiting factor. |
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2 2nd round picks Seems they've done it at WR as well. Not much to show for it, granted their best player got his knee blown out. |
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We're kinda underselling what they've lose on that side. |
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There's like 7 positions they could draft in the first that has positional value over guard. This team desperately needs playmakers at every level of both the offense and defense. Taking a guard in the first would be a gross misuse of resources. |
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I'm just saying if there's a guard they think can be an elite player there, take him over the next FAU. The high ceiling low floor guys are tough for me at this point. |
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I'm not against it. It's the way you're gonna have to get some high end guys. I've just come to the conclusion that I'll take as many Karlaftis and Bolton type guys as I can get and work back from there. |
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They tried getting boom or bust players in Kingsley and FAU. Just didn’t work out. Uche is a direct correlation to FAU IMO. They wanted athleticism and speed for Felix and he just hasn’t brought it. |
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My take...
QB: Agree with bringing Wentz back. We haven't been in a position to burn a 5th rounder on a dude to develop back there, I wish we could.
RB: I'm okay with bringing Hunt back but I'd love to see a guy more like Rico Dowdle that can give you a bit of speed and a punch in the pass game as well as a rookie with some speed. That being said, we seem to prefer hammers with contact balance, which is fine but rarely threatening. Altogether, I think 1 vet + 1 rook is going to be the recipe WR: I guess I'm going to go against the grain here and say I'd rather go with a combo platter of Josh Palmer, Darius Slayton, and Elijah Moore than bringing back the lot of what we have (suppressing any hope of Tee Higgins). I like DHop but age is starting to show a bit. Hollywood is a big question and the rest I feel would be adequately upgraded with this lot. Throw another rookie in the mix maybe. TE: Even if Kelce retires, Gray is a solid player and Wiley will develop. I have some hopes for that Baylor Cupp kid too. OT: Alot of talk about Kingsley to OG that I think is BS. The kid is built to play OT. We knew he was raw as **** coming in. Give the kid a minute. We know Wanya can't hack it after 2 years out there, maybe that's the guy to talk about moving to OG. Do you buy a rental like a Cam Robinson? No. Bolles or Humphries for a 1-year deal? Yeah, I'd do that. I'm not buying a subpar vet for multiple years to fix what might be a one year development issue. IOL: With Wanya, Caliendo (ERFA), Nourzad, and Hanson, I think you all you do here is add via the draft. I let Smith walk and I don't extend Thuney. --- DE: I agree on the need to add another pass rusher and I fully expect it to be a primary consideration with our 1st round pick once again but I wouldn't rule out Veach jumping on a guy if he hit's FA and that guy is Patrick Jones II from the Vikings. The jury is out on Omenihu yet but he could be in play as well. DT: Veach will likely continue his ways of circulating vets at DT and I'm going to wager Wharton is retained first. It would be nice to finish out Jones' career with a cog like BJ Hill next to him though, so this is the year I might join in banging that particular drum. LB: I'm not sure I'd bring Bolton back, but if he falls into the range of Zaire Franklin/Foyesade Oluokun for salary demands that are commensurate with his play, then I might be in. He's far too much a liability in coverage to demand a cent more. I might see what Jamien Sherwood asks in FA. You can always get competent LB play in FA without paying top dollar. CB: I'm going to lump CB and S into one need and that is to replace Chammarri Conner in the nickel. He's abysmal. After that, I think you have to prepare for future losses, probably of Watson and Williams as they'll look to retain McDuffie. If they handle it right, they could keep McDuffie and Watson together for a few more years. I'm going to guess they use some money to retain Johnson as an RFA and keep him here one more go. We know this is an area that Veach is highly unlike to spend major resources on in FA. S: Hicks and Cook will be fine as starters and Conner would be better as a reserve S. A cheap depth signing with some experience, like Jaylinn Hawkins, or a mid-round prospect would do the trick here. Specialists: Bring Araiza back on RFA deal and Winchester for another go around. Rough stab at what a 53-man could look like in '25: QB - Mahomes, Wentz RB - Pacheco, Hunt, Rookie-D3 WR - Rice, Worthy, Vets (Slayton, E. Moore?), Rookie-D2, Remigio TE - Kelce, Gray, Wiley LT - Vet (Humphries?), Suamataia LG - Thuney, Caliendo OC - Humphrey, Nourzad RG - Morris, Hanson RT - Taylor, Driscoll - DE - Karlaftis, Danna DT - Jones, Wharton NT - Vet (Hill?), Rookie-D3 DE - Omenihu, FAU, Rookie-D1 LB - Vet (Sherwood?) Tranquill, Leo, Rookie-D2 CB - Trent, Watson, Williams, Rookie-D2, Johnson, Rookie-D3 S - Hicks, Cook, Conner, Vet (Hawkins?) |
Draft another one in the mid rounds. Good class
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">• Colston Loveland – Michigan<br>• Tyler Warren – Penn State<br>• Mason Taylor – LSU<br>• Harold Fannin Jr. – Bowling Green<br>• Elijah Arroyo – Miami<br>• Gunnar Helm – Texas<br>• Terrance Ferguson – Oregon<br>• Jake Briningstool – Clemson<br>• Eli Stowers – Vandy<br>• Oronde Gadsden – Syracuse <a href="https://t.co/dqKG19lEmh">https://t.co/dqKG19lEmh</a></p>— Jordan Reid (@Jordan_Reid) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jordan_Reid/status/1866514932243517581?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 10, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> |
My thoughts:
QB - Bring back Wentz, sure RB - Find someone with some juice/explosiveness in the draft (does NOT need to be a high pick) WR - If Kelce returns, probably draft another one in the first two days. Maybe see if Hopkins or Brown wants to come back on a medium-sized deal. If Kelce retires, ramp up the priority of finding another weapon here. OL - Bye-Bye Trey Smith. If Humphries gets healthy and plays well during the playoff run, consider re-signing him to a 3-4 year deal. Consider Cam Robinson in FA if he is there, or Garrett Bolles, or even Joe Noteboom. Replace Trey Smith with Suamataia or Morris. DL - Bring back Omenihu LB - Bye bye, Nick Bolton. I'd look at bringing back Willie Gay, and flank Tranquil with him and Chenal. Perfect LB corps, IMO. Secondary - I wouldn't be rushing to re-sign Justin Reid. I think they can shuffle at S between Conner, Cook, and Hicks and be OK. I wouldn't be opposed to finding a true FS type, either through the draft or in FA or by converting a CB. Draft, I'm focusing on: Interior DL OL CB WR/TE |
Here's the issue I find myself picking with even my own little mock here - I'm not sure it has enough roster turnover.
And you'd think maybe that sounds crazy, why would you wanna turn over a roster that is mostly comprised of guys who only know winning Super Bowls or reaching AFCCGs? But I still believe this team is going to get back to the Super Bowl and win it. That's three in a row. That's 13 playoff games for the 2021 draft class, 10 for 2022. I just gotta believe if you keep running it back with this group, it breaks down eventually. And I will trade that for one year if it means threepeating. But can you turn the roster over enough with new blood so not to skip a beat even in 2025? |
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They know they need injections youth. That’s why they were fine trading Sneed. It’s also why they aren’t playing Hopkins more than 60% of the snaps to keep their 4th rd pick. They know they need to start hitting on picks now that the 2021 class is done and the 2022 class is entering a contract year. |
I feel like we may be in a place that after this season, we'll need to pay a pass rusher and/or a LT. I think that's going to mean a lot of people walk.
We need a plus DE and we can't roll with a big question mark on Mahomes' blind side in '26. |
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How high does KC go on Omenihu? He’s going to get a payday, and he fits so well as a complement to Karlaftis and Jones, I want to see him retained. Honestly, I’m not sure there’s a DE they could get who impacts things as much as him. |
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With how good the TE class coming out is I’d say get another one in the mid rds with Wiley coming off a big knee injury. |
The Hollywood love makes no sense to me. If he wants to come back for a year at like 3 million bucks, sure.
But he's put up 1200 yards combined the last 3 years. There's alot of other guys out there that can do that. |
Kind of a terrible year for WR FA’s tbh. If not Hollywood then Elijah Moore is my preference with Dyami Brown as a lesser option.
Hollywood was cheap this year and fits this offense perfectly. Bring him back. He’s cheap |
Sunday was another feather in Thuney's cap.
He might end up winning another Super Bowl for us playing left tackle. He's so valuable. Getting older sure, but if he desires to play a few more years, he should absolutely be prioritized over Smith. |
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It'd be nice to have a guy that could win right off the snap, though. Been awhile since we had one of those. |
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Lot of people in the know saying Chiefs will/should pay Trey Smith. That’s so ****ing hard.
I get that you can balance Trey’s contract with small cap hits while Thuney’s runs out the next year or two. It’s a tough choice. Verderame reporting that Veach pushed hard to get Trey done in camp makes me think they feel the same way. I just don’t know. What I do know is that Doug or Kafka need to come back. Make them co-offensive coordinator if Nagy stays. Also if Chris Ballard is fired I’m bringing his ass back. He fits the role Dorsey has in Detroit. And he’s drafted Braden Smith and Bernhard Raimann who are solid tackles. This franchise was at its best when they had a ton of smart differing opinions in the building and I think they need to get back to that. |
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Best player available, guys. It’s not hard.
Let small minded teams think year-to-year. We’ve got Mahomes. We need to think just getting as many great players as possible. We’re thinking over the next 10 years. |
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Makes sense to move on from Smith. I like Omenihu but I don't think I'd.pay him what he wants. Would live Holywood back on a similar deal |
We're in the spot where the positions we need aren't usually in FA and or are expensive and get drafted early.
I think we need to be bold again this offseason. If that means trading a guy or letting some guys walk etc. so be it. |
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I’m all for a significant reset if that happens. I wouldn’t oppose letting just about everyone walk in FA and trading away some guys. It’s time to load up on picks and clear cap. Next season may be a good step back, but it’s for the best long term. |
Hypothetically, what would you suspect Noah Gray’s stats would be like next year without Kelce?
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I put this in another thread and my comment was largely panned by the collective genious [sic] of ChiefsPlanet. I truly believe that next year should be a mini-reset. Let’s get some roster churn going and get some young talent in here. It makes me nervous to think about bringing back/extending guys like Trey Smith, Bolton, Reid, Dhop. I don’t mind a few one year vet deals, but let’s take a breath after making NFL history and set this team up for another run with young players on first contracts.
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