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pugsnotdrugs19 12-07-2024 10:51 AM

Let's talk 2025 roster build (12/7)
 
I know we got a threepeat to complete, but I'm thinking ahead today... let's take this position by position:


QB: I'd bring Wentz back. Perfect backup and IDK where else he can go and find a better job unless (God forbid) he plays this year.

RB: I'd bring Hunt back on a minimum deal. Go into the draft with Pacheco and Hunt, find a speed back in the draft who is capable of taking the job post-2025.

WR: If not for Rice's impending suspension, I'd feel good here. I'd look to bring Hopkins and Hollywood both back on 1-2 year deals. If the group will stay healthy, I think we will find they're really good. Rice and Worthy will be perfect complements to one another as WR 1 and 2. But you need to get by while Rice is out and you need depth for injury. I'd be fine with Hardman and Watson as WR 5 & 6.

TE: Does Kelce retire? If he doesn't, this can be left alone probably unless they think Wiley sucks. If Kelce does retire... I'd think you need to at least slap a solid vet bandaid on and see if Gray can take the TE1 reigns. I think he can simply because he's so steady. Not Kelce, but damn solid.

OT: Biggest need obviously. We will see if Humphries earns a new deal. Scares me with his injury history but if he looks good... we can't let a good LT walk away. Hopefully Kingsley can become a legit swing tackle at minimum with a shot to take over a starting job in 2026. Taylor is here another year, perhaps two more.

IOL: I'd give Thuney a short extension to alleviate his cap hit if he plans to play much longer. Let Wanya, Nourzad, and Hanson compete for the RG job. If someone falls to you in the draft, take it and run. Protecting Pat is always priority #1.

---

DL: Need another legit pass rusher with juice. I'd hope that also retaining Omenihu is a priority. I'd prefer that over Trey Smith and maybe even Bolton at this point, especially if it can be a one-year deal that he takes to try and get paid in 2026. Need to bring our big run stuffers back on 1-year deals per usual.

LB: Tranquill hasn't been as good this year, which makes keeping Bolton seem a bit more important. I hope he can be retained at a reasonable cost, and if he can, we can roll with the same trio into 2025.

CB: Have to get another slot corner who can be there in case Trent can't -- which only takes a single injury to the room. Get another young guy or two in the room for in the inevitable departures of some of our 2022 Fab Five guys. Preferrably mid rounds.

S: I think Hicks is ready to take over Reid's role by next year. Not an urgent need at the position, especially if you add another viable slot corner that lets Conner stay at safety.

Specialists: Bring Araiza back on RFA deal, everything should stay the same there.

Rough stab at what a 53-man could look like in '25:

QB - Mahomes, Wentz
RB - Pacheco, Hunt, draft pick
WR - Rice, Worthy, Hopkins, Hollywood, Hardman, Watson
TE - Kelce, Gray, Wiley
LT - Vet (Humphries?), Morris
LG - Thuney, Nourzad
C - Humphrey, Nourzad
RG - Kingsley, Hanson
RT - Taylor, Driscoll

-

DE - Karlaftis, Danna
DT - Jones, Wharton or an early draft pick
NT - A couple cheap fatties, vets or rookies
DE - Omenihu, FAU, draft pick (first two days)
LB - Bolton, Tranquill, Leo
CB - Trent, Watson, Williams, vet slot corner, draft pick
S - Hicks, Cook, Conner

Feel like I'm probably leaving out a fairly nice FA signing or two but hard to project there until we see what the market will be.

RunKC 12-07-2024 11:35 AM

Agree with most things you said Pugs. I differ in a few different areas:

-they are 100% letting Trey walk
-Thuney is the best OL on the team and they will work on his contract to free up space IMO
-Hopkins or Hollywood need to stay next year due to Rice’s suspension
-I think Omenihu needs to be a high priority player to keep since we have not had the success we want with Felix and Karlaftis

OL predicament:
-We aren’t trading the house to move up for a “maybe” prospect at LT. I don’t think that is something Veach will do. He’s aggressive but not stupid.
-There will be possibilities for us at LT I. The market. Humphries (if he plays well) and Cam Robinson seem to be the guys. They are Donovan Smith level at worst and we’ve seen that’s good enough.
-I have heard Verderame say Kingsley should/will move to G for weeks. Nate Taylor floated it and so did Matt Derrick. That’s not a coincidence. I think that’s exactly what they’re planning. I’ve read some scouting reports on Kingsley and the big takeaway was he fell so far bc teams weren’t sure if he was a tackle or a G but loved his size/athleticism.
Read this. This guy nailed Kingsley and his issues from what we’ve seen. Suggested he would be far better (and good) at G and I agree.
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/04/u...oogle_vignette

-Assuming we have figure out LT before the draft, I’d say our biggest needs are interior rusher, corner, RB and ball hawking safety.

RB and LB is easy to fill to fill in FA or mid rounds. I would not be surprised if we took multiple DB’s with 2 of our 4 top 100 picks. That’s a huge part of Spags defense

pugsnotdrugs19 12-07-2024 12:17 PM

Hey, if Kingsley becomes a legit replacement for Trey, that's a much better use of the pick than what it appears so far. We can work with that.

I mean, could he be a nasty demeanor guy too just like Trey and his cousin Penei?

Could do a lot worse and would think the change alone allows for a confidence reset. That scouting report appears spot on and I recall Nick Jacobs also pre-draft saying he didn't have great feet.

In our scheme, it's just a must with the drops Patrick takes. You HAVE to be able to move laterally, back and forth even.

pugsnotdrugs19 12-07-2024 12:27 PM

Maybe you go Wanya as swing tackle then?

He's at least proven capable of getting through games at the position when he's healthy. What, 12-15 career starts now? And especially if it were to be like RT, I wouldn't be overly concerned there.

Hoover 12-07-2024 12:35 PM

Veach has his work cut out for him at the LT position.

I agree, if Thuney wants to keep going by all means extend him to a more cap friendly deal. Smith walks, and someone else pays him handsomely and we get a nice comp pick next season. The good news with our young tackle prospects is that at the very least they can be excellent guards and hopefully a RT in the future.

I don’t know what the answer is at LT, but man if DJ could be transitional LT for a year out two it would be huge. I know we need to see him play, but God I love his mental make up. This is a huge opportunity for him. He’s a lottery ticket. I’m rooting for the dude.

I agree we need to invest on the pass rush. I also think it would be wise to again invest at the CB and LB positions in those middle rounds.

I want them to draft another WR in this draft. Preferably someone who can return kicks and and provide depth. We obviously need a 3 down rounding back with some speed. And keep throwing darts at the TE position if there is a guy you like.

smithandrew051 12-07-2024 01:32 PM

Any idea what Atlanta has planned for Kyle Pitts?

I think he has one year left in Atlanta. If Kelce retires, would you flip them a pick and extend? Or just roll with Gray?

Hoover 12-07-2024 02:05 PM

I do t see any reason why Atlanta would do it. They want to win too.

smithandrew051 12-07-2024 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoover (Post 17844078)
I do t see any reason why Atlanta would do it. They want to win too.

I have no idea if they would.

He’s been a little disappointing since his rookie year though.

If they don’t want to extend him, then they may take the draft capital and move on.

No clue that that asking price would be.

RunKC 12-07-2024 02:16 PM

Yes Wanya can try at G but ideally he might be the swing tackle. Nobody has a great swing tackle. The hope is they can cover a few games and not **** up.

Wanya fits that role

Palangi 12-07-2024 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19 (Post 17843913)
I know we got a threepeat to complete, but I'm thinking ahead today... let's take this position by position:


QB: I'd bring Wentz back. Perfect backup and IDK where else he can go and find a better job unless (God forbid) he plays this year.

RB: I'd bring Hunt back on a minimum deal. Go into the draft with Pacheco and Hunt, find a speed back in the draft who is capable of taking the job post-2025.

WR: If not for Rice's impending suspension, I'd feel good here. I'd look to bring Hopkins and Hollywood both back on 1-2 year deals. If the group will stay healthy, I think we will find they're really good. Rice and Worthy will be perfect complements to one another as WR 1 and 2. But you need to get by while Rice is out and you need depth for injury. I'd be fine with Hardman and Watson as WR 5 & 6.

TE: Does Kelce retire? If he doesn't, this can be left alone probably unless they think Wiley sucks. If Kelce does retire... I'd think you need to at least slap a solid vet bandaid on and see if Gray can take the TE1 reigns. I think he can simply because he's so steady. Not Kelce, but damn solid.

OT: Biggest need obviously. We will see if Humphries earns a new deal. Scares me with his injury history but if he looks good... we can't let a good LT walk away. Hopefully Kingsley can become a legit swing tackle at minimum with a shot to take over a starting job in 2026. Taylor is here another year, perhaps two more.

IOL: I'd give Thuney a short extension to alleviate his cap hit if he plans to play much longer. Let Wanya, Nourzad, and Hanson compete for the RG job. If someone falls to you in the draft, take it and run. Protecting Pat is always priority #1.

---

DL: Need another legit pass rusher with juice. I'd hope that also retaining Omenihu is a priority. I'd prefer that over Trey Smith and maybe even Bolton at this point, especially if it can be a one-year deal that he takes to try and get paid in 2026. Need to bring our big run stuffers back on 1-year deals per usual.

LB: Tranquill hasn't been as good this year, which makes keeping Bolton seem a bit more important. I hope he can be retained at a reasonable cost, and if he can, we can roll with the same trio into 2025.

CB: Have to get another slot corner who can be there in case Trent can't -- which only takes a single injury to the room. Get another young guy or two in the room for in the inevitable departures of some of our 2022 Fab Five guys. Preferrably mid rounds.

S: I think Hicks is ready to take over Reid's role by next year. Not an urgent need at the position, especially if you add another viable slot corner that lets Conner stay at safety.

Specialists: Bring Araiza back on RFA deal, everything should stay the same there.

Rough stab at what a 53-man could look like in '25:

QB - Mahomes, Wentz
RB - Pacheco, Hunt, draft pick
WR - Rice, Worthy, Hopkins, Hollywood, Hardman, Watson
TE - Kelce, Gray, Wiley
LT - Vet (Humphries?), Morris
LG - Thuney, Nourzad
C - Humphrey, Nourzad
RG - Kingsley, Hanson
RT - Taylor, Driscoll

-

DE - Karlaftis, Danna
DT - Jones, Wharton or an early draft pick
NT - A couple cheap fatties, vets or rookies
DE - Omenihu, FAU, draft pick (first two days)
LB - Bolton, Tranquill, Leo
CB - Trent, Watson, Williams, vet slot corner, draft pick
S - Hicks, Cook, Conner

Feel like I'm probably leaving out a fairly nice FA signing or two but hard to project there until we see what the market will be.

I’d like to see Thornton as the 5th or 6th WR. The guy we got when the patriots cut him.

I’d bring Pennel back one more year. He is an elite run stuffer. Lovett can back him up and develop.

Palangi 12-07-2024 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 17843935)
Agree with most things you said Pugs. I differ in a few different areas:

-they are 100% letting Trey walk
-Thuney is the best OL on the team and they will work on his contract to free up space IMO
-Hopkins or Hollywood need to stay next year due to Rice’s suspension
-I think Omenihu needs to be a high priority player to keep since we have not had the success we want with Felix and Karlaftis

OL predicament:
-We aren’t trading the house to move up for a “maybe” prospect at LT. I don’t think that is something Veach will do. He’s aggressive but not stupid.
-There will be possibilities for us at LT I. The market. Humphries (if he plays well) and Cam Robinson seem to be the guys. They are Donovan Smith level at worst and we’ve seen that’s good enough.
-I have heard Verderame say Kingsley should/will move to G for weeks. Nate Taylor floated it and so did Matt Derrick. That’s not a coincidence. I think that’s exactly what they’re planning. I’ve read some scouting reports on Kingsley and the big takeaway was he fell so far bc teams weren’t sure if he was a tackle or a G but loved his size/athleticism.
Read this. This guy nailed Kingsley and his issues from what we’ve seen. Suggested he would be far better (and good) at G and I agree.
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/04/u...oogle_vignette

-Assuming we have figure out LT before the draft, I’d say our biggest needs are interior rusher, corner, RB and ball hawking safety.

RB and LB is easy to fill to fill in FA or mid rounds. I would not be surprised if we took multiple DB’s with 2 of our 4 top 100 picks. That’s a huge part of Spags defense

I absolutely agree on Kingsley. He can not back pedal or kick step. For as athletic as he is he really struggles with that. Getting into the phone both of guard would benefit his strength immensely. And could be a great pulling guard

Chris Meck 12-08-2024 09:18 AM

I think if Humphries is above average and stays healthy through the playoffs, you just sign him to a reasonable deal with availability incentives and let Smith walk.

Wanya's just not great in space, but has shown some 'tude on running plays. I'd put him in the mix with Nourad and co. to take RG.

Agree on RB.

On WR, I'd bring back Hopkins for sure, and probably Brown as the lost season isn't going to help his 'prove it' deal. I do wonder a bit if bringing Brown back will slow Worthy's progression. But as we learned this season, can't have too many weapons.

I think you roll with Gray and Wylie and maybe a mid to late rounder. I don't think you ever replace Kelce, and it's a fool's errand to try. You just move to a WR oriented offense like nearly everyone else and have solid TE's . Nothing wrong with that.

We really need a 'win fast' pass rush threat. We've got too many 'high effort' types. We'll see what Omenihu does down the stretch, but I really feel like maybe we might want to spend on a speed rusher in FA.

RunKC 12-08-2024 11:15 AM

All of the corners but McDuffie are FA’s after next year. Not sure we will be able to afford to keep both McDuffie and Watson. The situation with Steven Nelson says it all about depth.

Need to draft a versatile corner badly. Probably one early and another on day 3. Keep in mind the Chargers and Broncos will be loading up on weapons the coming offseason.

Would also like a guy with tools and experience like a Kobie Turner to replace Turk Wharton inside.

Assuming a guy in-house replaces Trey and they got with a vet at Lt I’d for Corner, interior pass rusher offensive weapon (TE or RB) and S with the first 4 picks

Tribal Warfare 12-08-2024 11:31 PM

Josh Simmons maybe our guy in the 1st round, Veach has always thrown "numbers" at positions of need like DBs in the 2022 draft

Direckshun 12-09-2024 08:56 AM

I'll have more thoughts later on this thread.

But you brought up an interesting point in the OP.

If you let Trey and Bolton walk, you can bring back Omenihu, and perhaps Willie Gay.

That gives you a Gay-Tranquil-Chenal linebacker corps and a good passrush off the edges.

I do think you're going to have to trade resources to move up and get a tackle, and tell Andy Heck this is his last stand. Wanya to RG.

Spend some resources in the secondary; I'd like to retain Justin Reid but I trust Veach to body out that secondary. Maybe bring Brown back on a prove-it deal, giving us a Rice-Worthy-Brown WR corps.

Kelce plays out the last year of his deal. Spend a second day pick on RB.

Profit.

O.city 12-09-2024 09:35 AM

Willie Gay isn't coming back.

Bolton does alot more than we see, so they'll keep him.

RunKC 12-09-2024 12:02 PM

Said it in another thread. I wouldn’t be mad if Veach drafted a G like Graham Barton in the late 1st and locked up the interior long term.

I don’t like seeing Mahomes get knocked around

Couch-Potato 12-09-2024 12:19 PM

Ideally, Veach get’s creative with the cap and can keep Smith, Bolton, Hopkins, Brown, and Omenihu. There’s always a way. NFL contracts are flexible enough to dance around the cap. Signing bonuses, restructures, extensions, whatever…. 4-peat!

O.city 12-10-2024 07:59 AM

You can find good G's and Lb's in the 2nd/3rd/4th round.

I'm full on BPA early. We need to be looking to develop high end guys to take the mantle here.

htismaqe 12-10-2024 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 17850727)
Said it in another thread. I wouldn’t be mad if Veach drafted a G like Graham Barton in the late 1st and locked up the interior long term.

I don’t like seeing Mahomes get knocked around

Nah. No reason the spend a 1st rounder on a guard, especially with the holes this team has.

pugsnotdrugs19 12-10-2024 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17851841)
You can find good G's and Lb's in the 2nd/3rd/4th round.

I'm full on BPA early. We need to be looking to develop high end guys to take the mantle here.

Yep... it's gotta be BPA through and through.

When you start chasing stuff, you run the risk of whiffing on some important picks and setting your roster back pretty dramatically.

This franchise has shown under Andy and Pat that they can chameleon to whatever they need to in order to win games.

O.city 12-10-2024 09:12 AM

If the BPA is a S, take him. If it's a G, fine.

But don't go shoehorning yourself.

htismaqe 12-10-2024 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17851906)
If the BPA is a S, take him. If it's a G, fine.

But don't go shoehorning yourself.

They need splash players. Taking a guard in the 1st round would be counterproductive. Look where they got Smith.

O.city 12-10-2024 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 17851909)
They need splash players. Taking a guard in the 1st round would be counterproductive. Look where they got Smith.

Eh, I don't really care if it turns into a good high end player.

I'm fully on board with build the trenches, work back from there at this point.

htismaqe 12-10-2024 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17851932)
Eh, I don't really care if it turns into a good high end player.

I'm fully on board with build the trenches, work back from there at this point.

There's still such a thing as positional value. They have to be cost effective with their picks. It's the only way to sustain a dynasty.

RunKC 12-10-2024 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 17851909)
They need splash players. Taking a guard in the 1st round would be counterproductive. Look where they got Smith.

They just need someone who is actually gonna get on the field and make a difference.

No more FAU’s or Kingsley’s. Can’t have players providing nothing, especially year 1

htismaqe 12-10-2024 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 17851963)
They just need someone who is actually gonna get on the field and make a difference.

No more FAU’s or Kingsley’s. Can’t have players providing nothing, especially year 1

Notice that you're talking about pass rushers and LTs. Not guards.

O.city 12-10-2024 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 17851939)
There's still such a thing as positional value. They have to be cost effective with their picks. It's the only way to sustain a dynasty.

Taking guys that can't play is the quickest way to end a dynasty.

O.city 12-10-2024 10:37 AM

They swung at a DE and a LT and seems to have missed, jury still out.

That's fine. Positional wise, that's just the way they're gonna have to do things.

pugsnotdrugs19 12-10-2024 11:09 AM

Yeah I'm starting to think chasing positional value even isn't worth the squeeze unless it's your BPA.

Puka Nacua is a high positional value, elite player taken in the fifth round. He looked really good in college. There's a guy like that every year at the WR, CB, or pass rusher positions. If not a few.

Creed and Bolton were not high value positions but I'd make those picks again every single time. Get really good players and let the coaches figure out how to win with them.

O.city 12-10-2024 11:16 AM

You don't know what holes you have until they're gaping.

Just keep stacking good players wherever you can.

htismaqe 12-10-2024 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17852004)
Taking guys that can't play is the quickest way to end a dynasty.

That's not the point. Spending high picks on guards when you need skill players is dumb. Yeah, let's follow the Chargers blueprint. Sure worked for them since they are 0-2 against a team with no outside pass rushers.

htismaqe 12-10-2024 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19 (Post 17852041)
Yeah I'm starting to think chasing positional value even isn't worth the squeeze unless it's your BPA.

Puka Nacua is a high positional value, elite player taken in the fifth round. He looked really good in college. There's a guy like that every year at the WR, CB, or pass rusher positions. If not a few.

Creed and Bolton were not high value positions but I'd make those picks again every single time. Get really good players and let the coaches figure out how to win with them.

Creed and Bolton were both 2nd rounders. Take a guard there if you want - I wouldn't but that's just me.

This team lacks explosion. That last thing they need to do is turtle up.

RunKC 12-10-2024 12:26 PM

It needs to be a corner, pass rusher or tackle in rd 1.

But either way they can’t keep blowing these early picks and getting nothing from them. They need someone to bring something the table as a rookie

O.city 12-10-2024 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 17852103)
That's not the point. Spending high picks on guards when you need skill players is dumb. Yeah, let's follow the Chargers blueprint. Sure worked for them since they are 0-2 against a team with no outside pass rushers.

They were a 5 win team last year, drafting what, 7th?

Seems like they did the smart thing.

smithandrew051 12-10-2024 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 17852134)
It needs to be a corner, pass rusher or tackle in rd 1.

But either way they can’t keep blowing these early picks and getting nothing from them. They need someone to bring something the table as a rookie

3 of the last 4 first round picks have been contributors right away.

O.city 12-10-2024 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 17852134)
It needs to be a corner, pass rusher or tackle in rd 1.

But either way they can’t keep blowing these early picks and getting nothing from them. They need someone to bring something the table as a rookie

Their first round pick WR is getting open. Seems to be doing fine.

Most rookies aren't gonna be hits right off the bat, especially where we draft. They need good football players. The rest will sort itself out.

RunKC 12-10-2024 12:33 PM

Referring to FAU and Kingsley. They were developmental players. I get the swing and missed but man they need their 1st 2 picks out there producing year 1.

Sucks but thats needed in the NFL.

htismaqe 12-10-2024 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17852140)
They were a 5 win team last year, drafting what, 7th?

Seems like they did the smart thing.

They have 3 first round picks on their offensive line. They're a Martyball team. If you're excited by that, I don't know what to tell you. It isn't ****ing 1995 anymore.

smithandrew051 12-10-2024 12:34 PM

And really the last 4 second rounds haven’t been too bad either:

Bolton and Humphrey
Moore and Cook
Rice
Kingsley

Moore is a bad bust. Kingsley is an incomplete grade as of now.

Cook was an okay pick. The other 3 were great picks.

htismaqe 12-10-2024 12:35 PM

I mean the Colts spent a ton of resources to protect Andrew Luck and he still got the shit beat outta him and retired way too soon.

smithandrew051 12-10-2024 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 17852155)
I mean the Colts spent a ton of resources to protect Andrew Luck and he still got the shit beat outta him and retired way too soon.

His last year was the best protection of his career. He was only sacked like 15 times.

He still came away with an injury.

That’s more of a Luck issue than anything (no pun intended).

RunKC 12-10-2024 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17852144)
Their first round pick WR is getting open. Seems to be doing fine.

Most rookies aren't gonna be hits right off the bat, especially where we draft. They need good football players. The rest will sort itself out.

Worthy is a star in the making. Kingsley could be moved to RG from what we’ve heard.

NFL is very unforgiving even with one bad year. We all love Spags and Merritt but it’s not been a great year for them aside from Hicks.

Nazeeh isn’t playable, Williams was in the dog house, Conner has struggled mightily in the slot and their day 3 rookie Kamal Hadden didn’t even make it through camp.

It’s not just defense. Kingsley and Wanya haven’t worked out and it’s crippled the offense

htismaqe 12-10-2024 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smithandrew051 (Post 17852158)
His last year was the best protection of his career. He was only sacked like 15 times.

He still came away with an injury.

That’s more of a Luck issue than anything (no pun intended).

My point was to show there are no guarantees. They could spend their entire draft on offensive line and still not have enough.

This team makes ZERO big plays anymore. No bombs, no INTs, no sacks, no breakaway runs, nothing.

They've already spent a ridiculous amount of resources on the offensive line. They need to get splash players.

O.city 12-10-2024 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 17852151)
They have 3 first round picks on their offensive line. They're a Martyball team. If you're excited by that, I don't know what to tell you. It isn't ****ing 1995 anymore.

It's the first year of their new staff rebuild. I'd guess they're ahead of schedule.

Plus they've got the QB part, which is always the limiting factor.

htismaqe 12-10-2024 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17852170)
It's the first year of their new staff rebuild. I'd guess they're ahead of schedule.

Plus they've got the QB part, which is always the limiting factor.

Yeah, I'm not convinced Herbert is any better than Rivers. Great stats, nearly zero impressive wins.

O.city 12-10-2024 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 17852168)
My point was to show there are no guarantees. They could spend their entire draft on offensive line and still not have enough.

This team makes ZERO big plays anymore. No bombs, no INTs, no sacks, no breakaway runs, nothing.

They've already spent a ridiculous amount of resources on the offensive line. They need to get splash players.

A first round pick
2 2nd round picks

Seems they've done it at WR as well. Not much to show for it, granted their best player got his knee blown out.

O.city 12-10-2024 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 17852163)
Worthy is a star in the making. Kingsley could be moved to RG from what we’ve heard.

NFL is very unforgiving even with one bad year. We all love Spags and Merritt but it’s not been a great year for them aside from Hicks.

Nazeeh isn’t playable, Williams was in the dog house, Conner has struggled mightily in the slot and their day 3 rookie Kamal Hadden didn’t even make it through camp.

It’s not just defense. Kingsley and Wanya haven’t worked out and it’s crippled the offense

I'd say losing their WR's crippled the offense.

We're kinda underselling what they've lose on that side.

O.city 12-10-2024 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 17852178)
Yeah, I'm not convinced Herbert is any better than Rivers. Great stats, nearly zero impressive wins.

I'm gonna hold out and give him time with Harbaugh before I drop him, but he's underwhelmed in terms of winning for sure.

htismaqe 12-10-2024 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17852179)
A first round pick
2 2nd round picks

Seems they've done it at WR as well. Not much to show for it, granted their best player got his knee blown out.

I'm not suggesting they draft another WR in the first.

There's like 7 positions they could draft in the first that has positional value over guard. This team desperately needs playmakers at every level of both the offense and defense. Taking a guard in the first would be a gross misuse of resources.

O.city 12-10-2024 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 17852190)
I'm not suggesting they draft another WR in the first.

There's like 7 positions they could draft in the first that has positional value over guard. This team desperately needs playmakers at every level of both the offense and defense. Taking a guard in the first would be a gross misuse of resources.

I'm not for a guard that early. Wouldn't be the way I'd go.

I'm just saying if there's a guard they think can be an elite player there, take him over the next FAU.

The high ceiling low floor guys are tough for me at this point.

htismaqe 12-10-2024 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17852193)
I'm not for a guard that early. Wouldn't be the way I'd go.

I'm just saying if there's a guard they think can be an elite player there, take him over the next FAU.

The high ceiling low floor guys are tough for me at this point.

Yeah, I get it. I just can't stomach the whole high floor, low ceiling guys at this point. We have many of those guys already. We already have George Karlaftis. We don't need another one.

O.city 12-10-2024 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 17852202)
Yeah, I get it. I just can't stomach the whole high floor, low ceiling guys at this point. We have many of those guys already. We already have George Karlaftis. We don't need another one.

Then be ok with the Kingsley's and the Fau's. It's just the other side of that coin.

I'm not against it. It's the way you're gonna have to get some high end guys.

I've just come to the conclusion that I'll take as many Karlaftis and Bolton type guys as I can get and work back from there.

htismaqe 12-10-2024 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17852207)
Then be ok with the Kingsley's and the Fau's. It's just the other side of that coin.

I'm not against it. It's the way you're gonna have to get some high end guys.

I've just come to the conclusion that I'll take as many Karlaftis and Bolton type guys as I can get and work back from there.

That's just the thing. I'd rather have Kingsley than another guard. I'd rather have a shot at elite. Taking a guard in the first just feels like defeatism to me.

RunKC 12-10-2024 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 17852202)
Yeah, I get it. I just can't stomach the whole high floor, low ceiling guys at this point. We have many of those guys already. We already have George Karlaftis. We don't need another one.

Yeah we’ve had this conversation so many times over the last few years with guys like Bolton and Karlaftis. I don’t understand the Kendra Colburn pick. Why pick a run stopping DT in any rd anymore?

They tried getting boom or bust players in Kingsley and FAU. Just didn’t work out.

Uche is a direct correlation to FAU IMO. They wanted athleticism and speed for Felix and he just hasn’t brought it.

O.city 12-10-2024 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 17852211)
That's just the thing. I'd rather have Kingsley than another guard. I'd rather have a shot at elite. Taking a guard in the first just feels like defeatism to me.

Seems like he's gonna be a guard, so you can have both!

O.city 12-10-2024 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 17852219)
Yeah we’ve had this conversation so many times over the last few years with guys like Bolton and Karlaftis. I don’t understand the Kendra Colburn pick. Why pick a run stopping DT in any rd anymore?

They tried getting boom or bust players in Kingsley and FAU. Just didn’t work out.

Uche is a direct correlation to FAU IMO. They wanted athleticism and speed for Felix and he just hasn’t brought it.

I dunno.....Travis Jones would look pretty good in Red and yellow right now.

htismaqe 12-10-2024 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17852231)
Seems like he's gonna be a guard, so you can have both!

I don't think Kingsley will end up at guard. He's just not built for it.

kccrow 12-10-2024 08:46 PM

My take...
 
QB: Agree with bringing Wentz back. We haven't been in a position to burn a 5th rounder on a dude to develop back there, I wish we could.

RB: I'm okay with bringing Hunt back but I'd love to see a guy more like Rico Dowdle that can give you a bit of speed and a punch in the pass game as well as a rookie with some speed. That being said, we seem to prefer hammers with contact balance, which is fine but rarely threatening. Altogether, I think 1 vet + 1 rook is going to be the recipe

WR: I guess I'm going to go against the grain here and say I'd rather go with a combo platter of Josh Palmer, Darius Slayton, and Elijah Moore than bringing back the lot of what we have (suppressing any hope of Tee Higgins). I like DHop but age is starting to show a bit. Hollywood is a big question and the rest I feel would be adequately upgraded with this lot. Throw another rookie in the mix maybe.

TE: Even if Kelce retires, Gray is a solid player and Wiley will develop. I have some hopes for that Baylor Cupp kid too.

OT: Alot of talk about Kingsley to OG that I think is BS. The kid is built to play OT. We knew he was raw as **** coming in. Give the kid a minute. We know Wanya can't hack it after 2 years out there, maybe that's the guy to talk about moving to OG. Do you buy a rental like a Cam Robinson? No. Bolles or Humphries for a 1-year deal? Yeah, I'd do that. I'm not buying a subpar vet for multiple years to fix what might be a one year development issue.

IOL: With Wanya, Caliendo (ERFA), Nourzad, and Hanson, I think you all you do here is add via the draft. I let Smith walk and I don't extend Thuney.

---

DE: I agree on the need to add another pass rusher and I fully expect it to be a primary consideration with our 1st round pick once again but I wouldn't rule out Veach jumping on a guy if he hit's FA and that guy is Patrick Jones II from the Vikings. The jury is out on Omenihu yet but he could be in play as well.

DT: Veach will likely continue his ways of circulating vets at DT and I'm going to wager Wharton is retained first. It would be nice to finish out Jones' career with a cog like BJ Hill next to him though, so this is the year I might join in banging that particular drum.

LB: I'm not sure I'd bring Bolton back, but if he falls into the range of Zaire Franklin/Foyesade Oluokun for salary demands that are commensurate with his play, then I might be in. He's far too much a liability in coverage to demand a cent more. I might see what Jamien Sherwood asks in FA. You can always get competent LB play in FA without paying top dollar.

CB: I'm going to lump CB and S into one need and that is to replace Chammarri Conner in the nickel. He's abysmal. After that, I think you have to prepare for future losses, probably of Watson and Williams as they'll look to retain McDuffie. If they handle it right, they could keep McDuffie and Watson together for a few more years. I'm going to guess they use some money to retain Johnson as an RFA and keep him here one more go. We know this is an area that Veach is highly unlike to spend major resources on in FA.

S: Hicks and Cook will be fine as starters and Conner would be better as a reserve S. A cheap depth signing with some experience, like Jaylinn Hawkins, or a mid-round prospect would do the trick here.

Specialists: Bring Araiza back on RFA deal and Winchester for another go around.

Rough stab at what a 53-man could look like in '25:

QB - Mahomes, Wentz
RB - Pacheco, Hunt, Rookie-D3
WR - Rice, Worthy, Vets (Slayton, E. Moore?), Rookie-D2, Remigio
TE - Kelce, Gray, Wiley
LT - Vet (Humphries?), Suamataia
LG - Thuney, Caliendo
OC - Humphrey, Nourzad
RG - Morris, Hanson
RT - Taylor, Driscoll

-

DE - Karlaftis, Danna
DT - Jones, Wharton
NT - Vet (Hill?), Rookie-D3
DE - Omenihu, FAU, Rookie-D1
LB - Vet (Sherwood?) Tranquill, Leo, Rookie-D2
CB - Trent, Watson, Williams, Rookie-D2, Johnson, Rookie-D3
S - Hicks, Cook, Conner, Vet (Hawkins?)

RunKC 12-11-2024 09:57 AM

Draft another one in the mid rounds. Good class

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">• Colston Loveland – Michigan<br>• Tyler Warren – Penn State<br>• Mason Taylor – LSU<br>• Harold Fannin Jr. – Bowling Green<br>• Elijah Arroyo – Miami<br>• Gunnar Helm – Texas<br>• Terrance Ferguson – Oregon<br>• Jake Briningstool – Clemson<br>• Eli Stowers – Vandy<br>• Oronde Gadsden – Syracuse <a href="https://t.co/dqKG19lEmh">https://t.co/dqKG19lEmh</a></p>&mdash; Jordan Reid (@Jordan_Reid) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jordan_Reid/status/1866514932243517581?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 10, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

duncan_idaho 12-11-2024 12:48 PM

My thoughts:

QB - Bring back Wentz, sure
RB - Find someone with some juice/explosiveness in the draft (does NOT need to be a high pick)
WR - If Kelce returns, probably draft another one in the first two days. Maybe see if Hopkins or Brown wants to come back on a medium-sized deal. If Kelce retires, ramp up the priority of finding another weapon here.
OL - Bye-Bye Trey Smith. If Humphries gets healthy and plays well during the playoff run, consider re-signing him to a 3-4 year deal. Consider Cam Robinson in FA if he is there, or Garrett Bolles, or even Joe Noteboom. Replace Trey Smith with Suamataia or Morris.
DL - Bring back Omenihu
LB - Bye bye, Nick Bolton. I'd look at bringing back Willie Gay, and flank Tranquil with him and Chenal. Perfect LB corps, IMO.
Secondary - I wouldn't be rushing to re-sign Justin Reid. I think they can shuffle at S between Conner, Cook, and Hicks and be OK. I wouldn't be opposed to finding a true FS type, either through the draft or in FA or by converting a CB.

Draft, I'm focusing on:
Interior DL
OL
CB
WR/TE

pugsnotdrugs19 12-11-2024 01:23 PM

Here's the issue I find myself picking with even my own little mock here - I'm not sure it has enough roster turnover.

And you'd think maybe that sounds crazy, why would you wanna turn over a roster that is mostly comprised of guys who only know winning Super Bowls or reaching AFCCGs?

But I still believe this team is going to get back to the Super Bowl and win it. That's three in a row. That's 13 playoff games for the 2021 draft class, 10 for 2022.

I just gotta believe if you keep running it back with this group, it breaks down eventually. And I will trade that for one year if it means threepeating. But can you turn the roster over enough with new blood so not to skip a beat even in 2025?

RunKC 12-11-2024 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19 (Post 17853250)
Here's the issue I find myself picking with even my own little mock here - I'm not sure it has enough roster turnover.

And you'd think maybe that sounds crazy, why would you wanna turn over a roster that is mostly comprised of guys who only know winning Super Bowls or reaching AFCCGs?

But I still believe this team is going to get back to the Super Bowl and win it. That's three in a row. That's 13 playoff games for the 2021 draft class, 10 for 2022.

I just gotta believe if you keep running it back with this group, it breaks down eventually. And I will trade that for one year if it means threepeating. But can you turn the roster over enough with new blood so not to skip a beat even in 2025?

I want Veach to sign as many guys as he can that are valuable. Aside from the obvious…Omenihu, Watson, Pacheco and Chenal if they agree to a fair contract money wise.

They know they need injections youth. That’s why they were fine trading Sneed. It’s also why they aren’t playing Hopkins more than 60% of the snaps to keep their 4th rd pick.

They know they need to start hitting on picks now that the 2021 class is done and the 2022 class is entering a contract year.

Chris Meck 12-17-2024 06:46 AM

I feel like we may be in a place that after this season, we'll need to pay a pass rusher and/or a LT. I think that's going to mean a lot of people walk.

We need a plus DE and we can't roll with a big question mark on Mahomes' blind side in '26.

duncan_idaho 12-17-2024 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 17862907)
I feel like we may be in a place that after this season, we'll need to pay a pass rusher and/or a LT. I think that's going to mean a lot of people walk.

We need a plus DE and we can't roll with a big question mark on Mahomes' blind side in '26.


How high does KC go on Omenihu? He’s going to get a payday, and he fits so well as a complement to Karlaftis and Jones, I want to see him retained. Honestly, I’m not sure there’s a DE they could get who impacts things as much as him.

RunKC 12-17-2024 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 17862924)
How high does KC go on Omenihu? He’s going to get a payday, and he fits so well as a complement to Karlaftis and Jones, I want to see him retained. Honestly, I’m not sure there’s a DE they could get who impacts things as much as him.

Yup. They need to try to keep Hollywood too bc Worthy is the only guy beating man coverage right now and Rice will miss time next year.

With how good the TE class coming out is I’d say get another one in the mid rds with Wiley coming off a big knee injury.

O.city 12-17-2024 09:59 AM

The Hollywood love makes no sense to me. If he wants to come back for a year at like 3 million bucks, sure.

But he's put up 1200 yards combined the last 3 years. There's alot of other guys out there that can do that.

RunKC 12-17-2024 10:13 AM

Kind of a terrible year for WR FA’s tbh. If not Hollywood then Elijah Moore is my preference with Dyami Brown as a lesser option.

Hollywood was cheap this year and fits this offense perfectly. Bring him back. He’s cheap

pugsnotdrugs19 12-17-2024 03:05 PM

Sunday was another feather in Thuney's cap.

He might end up winning another Super Bowl for us playing left tackle. He's so valuable. Getting older sure, but if he desires to play a few more years, he should absolutely be prioritized over Smith.

Chris Meck 12-17-2024 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 17862924)
How high does KC go on Omenihu? He’s going to get a payday, and he fits so well as a complement to Karlaftis and Jones, I want to see him retained. Honestly, I’m not sure there’s a DE they could get who impacts things as much as him.

I don't know, I really don't. I think he's more useful HERE, with Spags and with Jones and Karlaftis, than he would necessarily be in most places.

It'd be nice to have a guy that could win right off the snap, though. Been awhile since we had one of those.

OKchiefs 12-18-2024 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19 (Post 17863504)
Sunday was another feather in Thuney's cap.

He might end up winning another Super Bowl for us playing left tackle. He's so valuable. Getting older sure, but if he desires to play a few more years, he should absolutely be prioritized over Smith.

that’s fine, but his cap number needs to come down

RunKC 12-18-2024 11:36 AM

Lot of people in the know saying Chiefs will/should pay Trey Smith. That’s so ****ing hard.

I get that you can balance Trey’s contract with small cap hits while Thuney’s runs out the next year or two. It’s a tough choice. Verderame reporting that Veach pushed hard to get Trey done in camp makes me think they feel the same way. I just don’t know.

What I do know is that Doug or Kafka need to come back. Make them co-offensive coordinator if Nagy stays.
Also if Chris Ballard is fired I’m bringing his ass back. He fits the role Dorsey has in Detroit. And he’s drafted Braden Smith and Bernhard Raimann who are solid tackles.

This franchise was at its best when they had a ton of smart differing opinions in the building and I think they need to get back to that.

Delano 12-18-2024 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 17864160)
Lot of people in the know saying Chiefs will/should pay Trey Smith. That’s so ****ing hard.

I get that you can balance Trey’s contract with small cap hits while Thuney’s runs out the next year or two. It’s a tough choice. Verderame reporting that Veach pushed hard to get Trey done in camp makes me think they feel the same way. I just don’t know.

What I do know is that Doug or Kafka need to come back. Make them co-offensive coordinator if Nagy stays.
Also if Chris Ballard is fired I’m bringing his ass back. He fits the role Dorsey has in Detroit. And he’s drafted Braden Smith and Bernhard Raimann who are solid tackles.

This franchise was at its best when they had a ton of smart differing opinions in the building and I think they need to get back to that.

What is Joe Blah-meier actually doing? I remember when Andy was majorly tuning this offense for Alex and then Patrick, he brought in spread experts, co-coordinators, etc. I agree the coaching staff needs a major infusion of new ideas. I’ve been impressed with how Embree is developing young wideouts which is a reversal from how I felt last year.

RealSNR 12-18-2024 10:26 PM

Best player available, guys. It’s not hard.

Let small minded teams think year-to-year. We’ve got Mahomes. We need to think just getting as many great players as possible. We’re thinking over the next 10 years.

JPH83 12-19-2024 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 17862907)
I feel like we may be in a place that after this season, we'll need to pay a pass rusher and/or a LT. I think that's going to mean a lot of people walk.

We need a plus DE and we can't roll with a big question mark on Mahomes' blind side in '26.

Thinking exactly the same. Feels like there's going to be a fair amount of necessary churn.

JPH83 12-19-2024 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 17863071)
Kind of a terrible year for WR FA’s tbh. If not Hollywood then Elijah Moore is my preference with Dyami Brown as a lesser option.

Hollywood was cheap this year and fits this offense perfectly. Bring him back. He’s cheap

It's possibly even worse for LTs, and I don't think the draft is great. Suspect we'll have to overpay a vet for insurance AND draft another developmental OT for insurance policy. Lot of capital we've got to sink into that position.

Makes sense to move on from Smith. I like Omenihu but I don't think I'd.pay him what he wants. Would live Holywood back on a similar deal

O.city 12-19-2024 08:18 AM

We're in the spot where the positions we need aren't usually in FA and or are expensive and get drafted early.

I think we need to be bold again this offseason. If that means trading a guy or letting some guys walk etc. so be it.

smithandrew051 12-19-2024 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17864887)
We're in the spot where the positions we need aren't usually in FA and or are expensive and get drafted early.

I think we need to be bold again this offseason. If that means trading a guy or letting some guys walk etc. so be it.

If the Chiefs pull off the 3-peat, they’ve officially hit the highest peak of any team in NFL history. A record that won’t likely be broken any time soon, as you’d need 4 straight to surpass that.

I’m all for a significant reset if that happens. I wouldn’t oppose letting just about everyone walk in FA and trading away some guys.

It’s time to load up on picks and clear cap. Next season may be a good step back, but it’s for the best long term.

Couch-Potato 12-19-2024 07:54 PM

Hypothetically, what would you suspect Noah Gray’s stats would be like next year without Kelce?

JimNasium 12-20-2024 06:53 AM

I put this in another thread and my comment was largely panned by the collective genious [sic] of ChiefsPlanet. I truly believe that next year should be a mini-reset. Let’s get some roster churn going and get some young talent in here. It makes me nervous to think about bringing back/extending guys like Trey Smith, Bolton, Reid, Dhop. I don’t mind a few one year vet deals, but let’s take a breath after making NFL history and set this team up for another run with young players on first contracts.


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