Trade the pitcher most in the organization feel has the most upside and best stuff for a 31 year old ss who is .5 better WAR player than you already have? Yeah, I'm calling bullshit. If Martinez is going, package him, Wong and Wacha together and go get a difference maker.

You could add a secondary piece to that and go get cliff lee if your deadest on improving the rotation or a ss like Tulo

Why would you trade your two best pitching prospects for anyone? Your takes are just awful.

Ramirez has 75 wRC+ this year. That's terrible. Kozma's is 60.

Yes, he's quite a bit better, but it's still ****ing horrific.

Those three players likely project to 8-10 WAR combined per year. You'd better be getting Tulo AND someone else for that.

Alexei Ramirez was a pretty solid shortstop a few years back but hes sucked balls this year. I know he never set the world on fire but what happened he wasn't that bad of a player?

When baseball players are on the wrong side of thirty and aren't pumping themselves full of more junk than The Guardian they start to suck. Holliday, Pujols, et. al.

Because in the end they are just prospects at this point and if you have the chance to win a WS (like we do this year) sometimes you gotta make a move. I'm all about the future, but look at the nationals this year. Think they're glad the shut Strasburg down last year?


At this point, Wacha is a 3 or more likely 4 or 5 starter, he's massively overrated here.

And you also have to look at the fact that not everyone is going to turn out to be what they profile as. Yes, the cardinals are as good as anyone at developing players but knowing that, wouldn't you be more inclined to give them a chance to develop lesser known players while having high level guys in the majors?

That's probably true, I was just using that as an example.

If te Rockies would make that's be and throw in a de la rosa ( just an example no idea if they would) you make said move 11 times out of 10

I LMFAO when they shut him down last year. WTF was the point in having a stud phenom like that if you're not going to pitch him when it matters most? Were they ****ing serious? ROFL

Prospects are great for many reasons. They're cheap, they give you a major pipeline if talent to your club if you do it right, which we do, and they can also be used to go get known commodities to get you over the hump or flat make you te best team in baseball

How the **** is Francisco Liriano doing so good this year, didn't his arm fall off in Minnesota?

From Bernie

Let's take a look at this nonsense, shall we?



Ramirez soon will turn 32.


He's a nice shortstop, but ...



Defensively Pete Kozma is a better shortstop.
Here are the latest rankings culled from Bill James Online...


Defensive Runs Saved:
Ramirez ... 4 runs saved, 11th among MLB shortstops.
Kozma ... 5 runs saved, 6th among shortstops.



John Dewan's Plus-Minus Ratings:
Ramirez ... +1, including a minus 1 on ground balls.
Kozma ... + 7, including a plus 11 on ground balls.



OK, what about offense?


Isn't Ramirez an offensive upgrade over Kozma?


Yes, but only to a point. Since the start of last season, Ramirez has a .295 onbase percentage and a .360 slugging percentage. He can steal some bases, but that isn't a part of the Cardinals' playbook. Nor should it be.
Basically Ramirez is less awful offensively than Kozma.
Which is hardly an endorsement.



Especially when we consider the Ramirez contract obligations.
Ramirez is owed about $2.5 million (maybe closer to $3 million) for the rest of this season.



Ramirez will make $9.5 million guaranteed in 2014, $10 million guaranteed in 2015, and has a team option for $10 million in 2016. The club can buy out the option for $1 million.



Even if you wipe out the option year, Ramirez is owed between $22 million and $23 million guaranteed.


So why would the Cardinals take on that salary — AND surrender one of their best pitching prospects — for a relatively minor offensive upgrade at shortstop?

His throwing a two seamer a lot more than a four seamer, which took his fastball from ungodly awful to a touch below mediocre. He's also throwing the hell out of his slider, which is one of the better pitches in baseball.

Damn, Gast needs shoulder surgery. Well, it was nice knowing you, John.

And that is another reason I'm not dead set on not moving prospects.