***OFFICIAL*** 2013 STL Cardinals Thread
 

From Bernie's column:

People have asked me why we’re not more emotional,” Matheny said in his office after Sunday’s game. “They say that we look subdued, always intense. That our actions are methodical, robotic at times. That’s what got us here. This isn’t the time to change it.”

It’s hard to argue with the manager’s assessment. The Cardinals finished with 97 victories, most by a Cards team since 2005, and tied with Boston for No. 1 in the majors this year.


Their 54-27 showing at Busch Stadium matches the 1985 team for the best single-season home winning percentage (.667) by the Cardinals since 1944.

A postseason theme has emerged, and it echoes the mantra that surfaced before the start of 2013: remember the fall of 2012. Remember falling to San Francisco in the NLCS.


The Cardinals’ veterans still haven’t forgotten. They still aren’t over it. It’s why Matheny resists GM John Mozeliak’s urgings to smile and put on a happier face.


Here's the most impressive aspect of the Cardinals' division championship: they prevailed over two other outstanding teams, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati.



The 97-win Cardinals were better this year (regular season) than they were in 2011, when they won 90 games, and 2012, when they won 88.
Here are a few numbers that help put the Cardinals' Central title and No. 1 NL seed in perspective:



* Since MLB switched to a three-division format in each league in 1994, this was only the sixth time that a division had three 90-plus win teams. St. Louis won 97, Pittsburgh 94, and Cincinnati 90.
* Since the format change, this was only the second time that an NL division had three 90-win teams. In 2002 the NL West had Arizona (98 wins), San Francisco (95) and Los Angeles (92).
* The 2013 Cardinals faced more esteemed and difficult competition at the top of the division than any of the division-winning teams managed by Tony La Russa.

The Pirates were hardly pushovers; the Cardinals had to work like mad and kick in with a strong finish to put the division away, and didn't clinch until Game No. 160.



The Cardinals went 9-10 against Pittsburgh this season and were 11-8 vs. Cincinnati.


The Cardinals won only three of 10 games at PNC Park in Pittsburgh and split the 10 games at Cincinnati. The Cardinals were 6-3 against both teams at Busch Stadium.


The Cardinals (1st), Pirates (3rd) and Reds (5th) ranked among the top five in wins in the NL. The three teams were among the top 11 in wins in MLB. All three teams finished in the top five in the majors for best overall ERA, and each were in the top five MLB for best starting-pitching ERA.


The original purpose to this piece was to point out that the Cardinals managed to finish with the league's best record while competing in a division that had three 90-win teams for only the second time in the last 19 years of National League baseball.



The Cardinals really earned this.
Thanks for reading ...
— Bernie

Cool. We are definately spoiled.

I've been hearing that Tavares has been tearing up winterball pitching in the Dominican Republic. I'm just glad Mo hasn't traded him, hopefully he'll be a cornerstone for a decade or so.

Unless he's moving him as part of a deal for Verlander the guy is about as untouchable as it gets.

You mean, you wouldn't trade a top-notch prospect for James Shields? :evil:

Our Time

I was stropping a straight razor to cut myself, then remembered I'm not a Royals fan.

****, if it weren't for the Cardinals I would have probably driven a fertilizer bomb into the Chiefs or Missouri sports complexes by now.

:LOL:

:LOL:
We missed you.

Scouts (not cardinals people) are saying he has an ALL-Star ceiling but could also have a HOF ceiling.

Man, that sounds......awesome.

People have compared him to Roberto Clemente. That ain't too shabby.:thumb:

Well we will have him for at least 6 years on the cheap. And no one on the Caridinals FO is saying Taveras is going down to the minors. If he makes the team out of spring training, he stays with the team all year. He could fill in for Beltran and Jay and pinch hit. Beltrans knee gives out, he's some damn good insurance.

Clemente? That is high praise. Does he have that kind of power & arm?

He has speed, power and hits for average. Don't know about the arm. I'm sure someone here does.

Won rookie of the year for Winter ball 2013.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...s_mlb&c_id=mlb

Hey, a Hector Luna sighting!

This doesn't fit the pattern of a team with a horrendous farm system.

A lot to be happy about for the future. Albert who?

In all seriousness, I'm a Chiefs fan, Iowa fan, and Cardinals fan growing up. Thank goodness for the Cards; the only team that is routinely successful!

The last two years being a fan of a team that doesn't quit, comes from behind and plays with some grit, didn't suck either. A lot of other teams fans were sure jealous of the way our team played the game. wished their team played like ours.

Taveras' hitting is ranked 60/80: Good ML hitter floor, HOF ceiling.

nickname?????

Pujols who

Let's not count our chickens yet. I lurked last year; you got a little too cocksure during the LCS :).

yeah, its my fault.:doh!:I should be on Mo's payroll if this is true, correct?

Nothing will ever surprise with this team again. Every time we think they are done, they make an improbable run the playoffs.

And Trevor Rosenthal spent the winter working out with Chris Carpenter in STL. Just how awesomely cool is that? Talk about getting started the right way? And a bonus.....Waino is buddying up with Shelby Miller. The torch is passing....

That's just damned impressive for a 21-year old.

Hope he makes the team out of spring training but waiting another year wouldn't be so bad. We would get a minimum of 6 full years instead of loosing one year to part time play.

If he is as advertised, we won't be able to keep him after 6 years.

Looks like Mo is going to bring in Ronny Cedeno for Furcal's backup

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...5a9b2533c.html

Somehow a facepalm doesn't even seem sufficient.

Everything we do is just underwhelming. We gave Randy Choate 3 years when Mike Gonzalez could've been had for cheaper and without a 3 year commitment. We gave Wigginton $6 million over 2 only to see the Cubs get Hairston, a far better hitter against lefties AND a capable defender for $7 million over 2.

Now we go after this yutz as our 'competition' and insurance in case of Furcal's back injury.

Moe's plan appears to be praying that all the pitchers that Luhnow drafted for him come through in spades.

I think Hairston was waiting the market out, trying to get a bigger contract. He just ran out of teams, but it seems like he was seeking a much bigger contract than what he got. Heck, it seems like they gave Choate nearly as much as Burnett got, just 1 less year.

MLB.com announce the top outfield prospects in all of baseball. Who's #1?

Talk about setting the bar high. Last year's Top 10 outfielders list was led by the two players who ended up as the Rookies of the Year. Bryce Harper of the Nationals and Mike Trout of the Angels obviously have graduated, but this year's Top 10 outfielders list has a ton of future rookie-award candidates on it. And there are some new names, with only three outfielders returning from 2012.


1. Oscar Taveras, Cardinals: The Cardinals' signing of Taveras out of the Dominican Republic in 2008 for a mere $145,000 could go down as one the biggest bargains in recent memory. Perhaps the best pure hitter in the Minors, Taveras handled a double jump to Double-A last season by going to the Futures Game and earning Texas League Player of the Year honors. Taveras has done nothing but hit for plenty of average, and the power continues to come, along with improved plate discipline. He has everything to be an All-Star-caliber outfielder who hits in the middle of a big league lineup for years.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...s_mlb&c_id=mlb

:thumb:

Check that:20-year old

MLB.com picked Taveras as the 3rd best prospect in all of baseball. Called him a young Barry Bonds on the show.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...47916&c_id=stl

Tied for the lead of all teams with the most players on the top 100 prospects team, 6.

Taveras is a beast.

I don't get the Barry Bonds comparison (will have to go watch the clip). It makes sense if you're just talking about his bat. But Taveras isn't as fast/the base-stealing threat Bonds was in his youth, and Taveras also doesn't throw like a girl like Bonds did (making him a viable RF or even CF in a pinch and adding some defensive value).

I am weighing carefully between targeting Taveras or Jurickson Profar as my rookie must-have in my fantasy baseball auction/keeper league.

I like Taveras' bat more, but Profar's positional scarcity and ability to help with his legs (while playing in a hitter's paradise) probably give him a slight edge. Whichever one I nab, they will make a nice addition on the shelf next to Mike Trout ($8), Bryce Harper ($5) and Chris Sale ($4).

I'd be interested to hear thoughts on Shelby Miller and Matt Holliday. I can keep Miller for $4 at my last keeper spot and am trying to sort out how likely he is to make the rotation at some point this year. Holliday is my other option at my last keeper spot. He's a bit pricy ($32 - $300 cap, 24 players) and I'm worried about his late-season drop-off/age.

What say you, Cards fans?

yes. If a pitcher goes down or performs poorly, he's first up. We have 3 candidates that could **** up. He will see the mound quite a bit.

Holliday is a consistent .300/20-25/100 hitter every season for the 7-8 years. He usually starts off slow and then he's really hot and then the fall off at the end.

All questions about Holiday are reserved for frazod :evil:

:#

ROFL

I saw the Bonds comparison, and I didn't get it either. Young Bonds didn't have near the power that I've heard Tavares has, but was faster & a better base stealer. The comparison I've heard that makes the most sense (and still sounds pretty good) is Vlad Guerrero. If he's that good, I'll take it.

I would hope so ROFL

Just scored my tickets for my fifth straight Opening Day in STL. Just booked my flight!

Jason Parks @Professor Parks I just asked a pro scouting dir about the biggest weakness in Oscar Tavares's game: "He doesn't play for us.That's all I can think of."

$145K bonus?LMAO Wonder if the Cardinals got "Pujols" lucky again?

Say, did any of you see MLB Network's top 50 prospects show? It's supposed to air again at 6pm et (5 pm ct) tonight. Cards well represented, as are the Royals. Also, the Rays have a couple 9f ex-Royals. LMAO

I'm not sure Oscar has the power that Vladdy has...afterall, I'm pretty sure Vladdy was 'enhanced' during his peak power years. And really, I don't see Oscar being the base-stealer that Vlad was during his peak either.

Maybe Chase Utley? But I think Tavares is a more aggressive hitter than Utley; probably won't have the OBP that he had. Maybe Bernie Williams? But again, Bernie drew a ton of walks.

Really, if you combine Bernie's batted ball profile with Torii Hunter's aggressive approach, I think you have Oscar. But a lot of those guys I'm a little reluctant to compare him to started drawing more walks as they got a little older, so maybe that's in store for Tavares as well. If he ever really refines his eye, he could easily be a Bernie Williams or Bobby Abreu type hitter.

Let's just compare him to All-Stars right now. We'll worry about comparing him to HOFers when he gets his 1000th hit or so...

I try not to get my hopes too high, the last Cards prospect with this much hype was probably J.D. Drew, and he turned out to be good, not great.

I don't remember Drew being the 3rd best prospect or higher in baseball right before he hit the majors. Wen have had our share of flops but every team does.

Not sure where he ranked, but he was hyped for nothing else because he spurned the Phillies; as we all know, dissing an east coast team like the Phillies is a mortal sin, punishable by having batteries thrown at you at Veterans Stadium.

Rumors are that the Cards have scheduled a 1:30 press conference to announce that Carpenter is retiring.

I guess you defer to the guy that just decided he didn't have the drive to answer the bell when pitchers and catchers report, but shit man - you couldn't have told us this several months ago? That might've been handy information to have, no?

Well that frees up some payroll, I guess. Too bad there's nobody left to sign.

Time to make a FA push for Michael Bourn and get to work on trading Holliday+ for Andrus.

They aren't trading Holliday.

I know.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't. Holliday for Andrus would be a win/win for both squads. Though if the Rangers weren't willing to part with Andrus for Upton, they aren't going to give him up for Holliday either.

You would think with a strong a farm system as the Cards have, finding a shortstop wouldn't be so tough. We don't need an All Star just a real solid guy.


Same for 2nd base. How far out is Wong another year or more?

No farm system has good ML-caliber talent at every position.

I'm really reluctant to get excited about Wong right now.

His hitting profile is starting to look a hell of a lot like Daniel Descalso's and Danny D has had the bat knocked out of his hands at this level. He's youngish, but he's not showing any real high-end tools down on the farm.

I'm thinking Wong is most likely to be little more than a placeholder.

EDIT: Presser had started so I just hit submit. I don't mean a placeholder, really. I mean just a decent player. He's not going to be much of a differencemaker out there, just a decent ballplayer.

DKnobler ‏@DKnobler

Cardinals announce Chris Carpenter "can't continue to throw" at this point. Not yet a retirement announcement, but it doesn't sound good

"After several attempts at throwing bullpens, Carpenter informed [Moe] that he's still experiencing the same stingers, pain, etc... that he experienced last spring and that he can no longer continue to throw"

...he's to seek medical advice, etc...

"It's very unlikely that he's going to pitch for us in the 2013 season"

SS is also the hardest to position to find, IMO.

There isn't a ton of SS talent in the US, as there is a lot of competition for those athletes who can play it at a high level (Soccer, football, basketball, etc.) And in the Latin America countries, you're scouting guys at 15/16 and trying to project arm strength, body size, quickness as adults.

Tough row to hoe.

So is Miller probably a lock for the rotation now that Carp is gone (assuming Lohse isn't brought back now)?

"We're comfortable with what we have"

Of course you are, Moe. You always are. WTF do you ever think needs to be upgraded on this roster and do you ever do anything but dumpster dive to improve it?

We're going to be ****ed once we run out of Luhnow draftees.

Wainwright
Westbrook
Garcia
Lynn
Rosenthal
Miller
Kelly

When Garcia inevitably goes down, you still have six potential starters for five spots.

We have two top-50 overall prospects in Shelby and Rosenthal. Time to give them a chance.

You'd like one or both of them to serve a bullpen apprenticeship for a month or two so they can A) continue to polish their stuff and B) limit their innings.

You could do that with both.

Waino, Westbrook, and Lynn have earned spots and are reasonable bets to stay healthy.

Garcia is a huge ?

Worst case scenario: Garcia is the broken down **** he appears to be in every important start.

Kelly, Rosenthal, and Miller play musical chairs with the final two spots. Each gets two months in the pen and four months in the rotation.

Don't forget Carlos Martinez, he's young but is on track for Memphis this year; has incredible stuff.

BTW-Happy trails, Carp.Game 3 of 06 WS & Game 5 of NLDS (against Halladay) are 2 great memories; he'll be missed.

Like Hamas listed, I'm comfortable with what we have too. We still have 7 pitchers for 5 spots.

Wainwright
Westbrook
Garcia
Lynn
Rosenthal
Miller
Kelly

Carp cant will the old bones for one more year. He has earned the thanks of a grateful Cardinal nation. those post season performances will never be forgotten by me and I'm sure others.
We only need a Shortstop of the future. Even if he traded our stud young pitching who would you have wanted?

ESPN (Kieth Law) says the Cardinals have the #1 farm system in the MLB.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story...lan-bundy-more

You just don't see baseball players with passion like that anymore. I sure hope some of that Carp attitude wore off on Rosenthal while he was working out with Carp this offseason.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Cardinals have lead MLB in position player fWAR over the last 10 years, 20 years. 2nd over 30 years, 40 years</p>&mdash; Steve McEwen (@SMcEwen_eh) <a href="https://twitter.com/SMcEwen_eh/status/300354099659022336">February 9, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Sounds awesome. What does it mean?

While the news about Carpenter was not surprising it still sucks the same. Hopefully he can get healthy and pitch again at some point but if not he had quite and run with the Cards. That gif that Hamas posted was one of the great moments of being a Cards fan.

We have been fielding good teams at a reasonable prices for 20+ years.

I sure hope that he decides to coach. You just cant turn off that competitiveness.

That's not what that means at all.

According to Fangraphs, we have the first or second best cumulative team over the last 10,20,30,40 years.

Fangraphs is fWAR, Baseball Reference is rWAR.

Did anyone catch what Jonathon Mayo said about Trevor Rosenthal? He said that some scouts told him that he was as good of a RHP prospect as they'd seen in the last 10 years.

This one about pitching atop a starting rotation for a long time?
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Just what the hell would we have done with $25 million of Pujols salary on the payroll?

Providing some payroll perspective

Jenifer Langosch/MLB.com
With Friday’s announcement that the Cardinals have reached a one-year agreement with third baseman David Freese on a 2013 salary, the Cardinals have wrapped up negotiations with all five of their arbitration players. It doesn’t exactly solidify all the contracts for this season (we’ll get to that in a minute), but the rest will be smooth sailing from here.

With Freese’s deal — which likely values around the midpoint of the $2.4 million the Cardinals offered and the $3.75 million Freese sought — the organization has established 2013 salaries for 16 of the players on its 40-man roster. Here is a rundown of those base salary commitments, which total approximately $108 million*.

(*That figure is approximate because it is not yet known how much Freese’s one-year deal is worth. For the sake of calculations, I used the midpoint figure of $3.075 million.)

• Matt Holliday: $17 million
• Yader Molina: $14 million
• Carlos Beltran: $13 million
• Chris Carpenter: $12.5 million (if he remains on the DL all season, the Cardinals will recoup some of this through an insurance policy)
• Adam Wainwright: $12 million
• Jake Westbrook: $8.75 million
• Rafael Furcal: $7 million
• Jaime Garcia: $5.75 million
• Jason Motte: $4 million (plus a $1 million signing bonus, which was not factored into that $108 million figure)
• Edward Mujica: $3.2 million
• David Freese: $3.075 million (again, this is an educated approximation)
• Ty Wigginton: $2.5 million
• Randy Choate: $1.5 million
• Mitchell Boggs: $1.475 million
• Ronny Cedeno: $1.15 million
• Marc Rzepczynski: $1.1 million

These will be the bulk of the Cardinals’ financial commitments, unless, of course, the organization makes a late play in the free-agent market. This does not, though, equal the final sum of commitments. All of the players on a team’s 40-man roster count against a club’s final payroll number (which won’t be known until after the season).

Players with less than three years of service time — and the Cardinals have 24 of those on their 40-man roster — have their contracts renewed much more quietly over the next few weeks. Teams control these salaries and most will be at the Major League minimum ($490,000 in 2013) or only slightly above.

Also, keep in mind that even though everyone on the 40-man roster will be assigned a Major League salary, a player will only earn it if he is on the Major League club. If he is sent to the Minors, he’ll earn a Minor League salary ($79,900 in 2013). A pro-rated salary will be paid accordingly to players who spend part of the year with the big league team and part of the year in the Minors.
All of these salary figures, as well as performances bonuses, pro-rated shares of signing bonuses, buyouts of unexercised options, cash transactions and other residual costs, will ultimately be used to determine a team’s final payroll — and again, those final numbers can’t be known until the end of the season.

But given the $108 million the Cardinals have already committed to 16 players, you can see why it’s been estimated that the organization’s 2013 payroll will come in around $115 million.

It would seem, too, that given these already-established commitments, the payroll actually has the chance of approaching the $120 million mark. That would be the case if the Cardinals choose to take on salary while making any in-season additions (i.e. Trade Deadline acquisitions).
Last year, the Cardinals had an Opening Day payroll of approximately $112 million (according to the Cot’s Contract database). The organization had an end-of-the-year payroll of about $115.5 million. The Cardinals first opened the season with a payroll of at least $100 million in 2010.
Follow me on Twitter: @LangoschMLB

That was good, but I was talking about his comments on the Top 50 prospects show.

JUPITER, Fla. • The Cardinals and Adam Wainwright’s representative engaged in preliminary talks about an extension for the righthander within the past week but as a result have decided to put negotiations on hold, both sides confirmed Tuesday.


Wainwright cautioned that “on hold” shouldn’t be misread as an end.
“It doesn’t mean that it’s over,” the Cardinals’ ace said after the team’s first official workout for pitchers and catchers Tuesday at their spring training complex. “The doors are still open. It just didn’t work out right now. … All that means is we couldn’t come to a number that worked for both sides as of yet.”


Wainwright, 31, is entering the final year of a contract that was worth $36 million over six seasons, and both the Cardinals and the pitcher have stated an interest in discussing an extension this spring, one that could carry Wainwright to the end of his career.


Cardinals Chairman Bill DeWitt Jr. reiterated Tuesday the organization’s interest in pursuing an extension with Wainwright before he reaches free agency. The pause in discussions doesn’t change the club’s optimism.
“He is a significant part of the organization, has been for many years, and is an important presence to have on a (pitching) staff,” DeWitt said. “We have been successful when it comes to retaining our core players. That is something that we have made an emphasis. Deals of this magnitude aren’t supposed to be easy to finalize.”


This is the third consecutive spring that the Cardinals have reached spring training with a core player entering his walk season. In 2011, three-time MVP Albert Pujols and the Cardinals couldn’t come to an agreement before spring and he announced that he would test free agency, a path that took him to the Los Angeles Angels. A year ago, catcher Yadier Molina and the club negotiated a five-year, $75 million extension during spring training that kept the Gold Glove Award-winner from becoming a free agent this past winter.


Molina did not want negotiations to carry over into the regular season, but he did not apply a deadline in the way Pujols did. A week before agreeing on the extension with the Cardinals, Molina’s agent described a “hold” in negotiations. Nine days after that pause in talks the Cardinals announced the deal.
Like Molina, Wainwright has not given the Cardinals a deadline.
He would like to establish some urgency.


“I think, especially from my side of it, there needs to be some urgency just so this thing doesn’t drag on,” Wainwright said. “If you want to do a deal, then let’s get it done. That type of thing. It’s not a peace of mind in the sense of going out to the mound wondering if this is the day it’s going to happen or not. It’s more like this: Are we going to do it or not do it?”
Said Cardinals general manager John Mozeliak: “There is still a lot of time. There are no deadlines in place. There’s still plenty of room and lots of opportunity for something to happen. Both sides remain open to discussions, and they could continue at any time.”


There has been an escalating market for frontline starters, especially in the past year. Seattle ace Felix Hernandez and the Mariners reportedly agreed to a deal Tuesday that will pay the righty as much as $175 million over seven seasons. That would make him the highest-paid pitcher in the history of the game. Since 2008, Hernandez is the sixth pitcher to sign a contract worth more than $125 million in guaranteed salary. Zack Greinke was the oldest of the six when he signed, at 29. Hernandez will be 33 when his deal expires.
Wainwright will be 32 at the end of this season.
Wainwright’s age, especially when compared to the younger standouts like Matt Cain or Cole Hamels, will dictate the length of the contract. But in the above deals the per-season salary (or, annual average value) for an elite starter has been established at greater than $20 million. For example, Cliff Lee was 32 when he signed a five-year, $120 million contract as a free agent with the Phillies.
Lee had won a Cy Young Award two seasons earlier. Wainwright has two top-three finishes for the league’s top pitching award. He is a full season removed from the elbow surgery that kept him from pitching in 2011.
Wainwright’s ERA since 2008 is 2.99, and that ranks fifth-lowest among pitchers with at least 750 innings pitched. Hernandez is fourth with a 2.92 ERA. Lee’s 2.89 ERA is third.


The Cardinals acknowledge that to finalize a deal with Wainwright it will probably take the highest average annual salary the club has ever paid a pitcher.


The most recent talks did not reveal a meeting point, so both sides stepped back. No further discussions are scheduled, but they are expected.


“No hard feelings and it’s not over,” Wainwright said. “Isn’t that part of the negotiating process? If you come out and get a deal done within the first 10 minutes of negotiating, that’s pretty weird. I don’t think there is reason for alarm.