The Myth that Nelson Sucks
 

Simply put, it’s wrong.


He’s having a pretty good season, and at least half of CP thinks he sucks. It’s a shame.

but but Sutton!!!

staylor, white knighter of mediocre DBs the world over

how many penalties does he have? Thats why people think they suck

It's because he isn't capable of dealing with top level receivers, he's not awful but he's not great either. The Chiefs don't have a #1 CB so basically they all end up looking bad when they get that matchup..

If you added a guy like Peterson and bumped everyone else down that would do wonders for that secondary.

Hammock Parties, wrong about everything all of the time

There are a lot of Steve Nelsons all over the league just most of them don't get asked to line up on 1's..same for Fuller and Scandrick. Those guys have value the problem is...they are all over matched against an elite WR.

Outside of maybe 10 corners, they all are.

Yet, here we are 6-1, and have already faced elite WR's.

That dog doesn't hunt anymore, WE are elite, at least for now.

That's just it. Nelson is a valuable player if he isn't over-extended. And in fairness that's not his fault. As a slot guy I think you can do a lot worse. Long-term I don't think he can handle being a #2. That was my beef with him this off-season, or more specifically, with us allowing that to be the plan.

Nelson does suck. I have never seen him look back for the ball. He is constantly penalized. Can’t catch easy interceptions. The dude doesn’t even see the field for 28 other teams.

Having a decent game against a team that came into a prime time game at Arrowhead and completely laid an egg does not make Nelson a good corner.

Kissel with their excuse they aren't going after Peterson

I don't hate Nelson, but how often was he matched up with AJ Green last night? I recall mostly Scandrick. A harsher grade otherwise?

It spoke loudly that Blake Bortles seemed keen to go after him.

Anyway, I think he's young and evolving. We should expect improvement from him throughout the season and hopefully we're seeing some of it. There's no part of me that dislikes Nelson at all as he's JAG-ish but green enough to have potential going forward,

This wasn’t his only good game, and let’s mot pretend like the Bengals don’t have a great duo in Green and Boyd.

He sucks. Every week teams come out with the game plan to throw at him because the whole league knows it. He isn't good all of a sudden because he decided not to get a bunch of penalties or get lit up by anyone last night.

You can’t get torched and have an above average PFF grade. It just doesn’t happen.

PFF is usually useless, but their corner grades are almost always spot on.

Nelson is PFF’s #48 corner. That doesn’t happen if you’re getting abused every week like you’re imagining he has been.

Outside of QB, I'd say DB is the hardest position to play in the NFL.

He doesn't suck, he's just a #4 corner playing #2.

were any of those 6 targets last night drops? cause AJ Green was dropping that shit.

Oh so there are 100+ corners better than Nelson?

:rolleyes:

Probably at least 60 or 70.

Yet he’s PFF’s 48th ranked corner despite playing on the outside on an island and being targeted early and often.

Nelson got raped so badly last week in New England that he had to literally tackle Josh Gordon. Still got a 40+ yard PI.

Oh I guess he’s the first corner to get beat by an elite talent like Gordon

Did I say that? I don't think I said that. That's not at all what I said.

Umm you said he’s a #4 corner. That’s exactly where that would put him.

You act like this dude is good staylor. He’s not bad, but he isn’t good.

He’s a meh player that the Chiefs have no business paying after this year.

Scandrick is just as good as him.

If he is only giving up about 40 yards a game how is this possible?

Only if you're saying that each team has a minumum of two legit starting quality corners.

Only if you're saying that each team has a minumum of two legit starting quality corners.
I think his ceiling is a reasonable #3, mostly a #4 guy. Just his ranking among the people currently playing the position doesn't actually speak to his real ability, just his RELATIVE rating. It's not the same thing at all.

Lol wut?

If you’re saying he’s a #4 corner at best on any team, you’re saying there are at least 100 corners better than him. It’s really simple.

I swear it’s like some of you don’t realize that guys like Cooper, Mitchell, and even Gaines were all starters after they left here.

Do you even watch the rest of the league?

Cooper and Mitchell are still playing better than Nelson .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DID I SAY ON ANY TEAM? No. You're just trying to argue for the sake of arguing.

I think he's of max #3 mostly a #4 quality. NOT ON ANY TEAM. On a WINNING TYPE DEFENSE TEAM. He's small, looks like he lacks top end speed, and has average at best ball recognition skills. He's not SHITTY, he's just not a quality #2. He's a #3 at best a probably a #4 on a GOOD DEFENSE. In my opinion. Whatever.

Do you ****ing read and comprehend before you start arguing?

Pff is wrong a lot.

Pff said Ryan Fitzpatrick was the number 1 qb through 3 weeks. [emoji1745]*[emoji3603]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last night was the first night he wasn't committing DPI on a half dozen plays. It's not black or white. The truth actually lies in the middle, as it usually does.

Cooper has played in two games this year and is a backup at this point.

Mitchell has been struggling all year and he’s PFF’s #78 corner. Nelson is having a much better season.

Thanks for proving my point. You guys don’t have a ****ing clue about the rest of the NFL.

Gaines has been pretty bad for Buffalo, including a number of his classic penalties.

Last night Dalton threw to Green almost exclusively. Nelson wasn't covering Green. So, saying he graded out the best in that particular game means nothing.

The best thing I can say about Nelson is he doesn't get abused as often as Fuller does. Fuller is just trash. I don't know how he was rated so highly last year, because he is slow, his hips are slow, and he seems to have questionable technique.

I cannot be the only person watching the all-22 noticing he gets toasted whether he lines up inside or out.

So, in as far as he isn't Fuller, Nelson is OK.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk

I’m not saying he hasn’t. It’s actually pretty much my point. As bad as everybody thinks those guys are/were they are still NFL starters.

Hence why saying Nelson is a #4 corner at best is ****ing reeruned.

The Myth that Nelson Sucks
 

Says the guy that failed to mention that Mitchell broke his ****ing arm 3 weeks ago, and cooper has been out with a hamstring for 4 weeks.

I’m well aware of Coopers injury, but I forgot about Mitchell’s.

That doesn’t change the fact that what I said was true.

Let me explain what I'm saying again-you're not understanding me.

64 "starting" CB's, right? In base defense.

Nelson's rating out at #48.

so, bottom quarter of starting CB's. That's probably about right. He doesn't suck, he's just being asked to do things beyond his ability. He's kind of/sort of held his own, but he gets PI's a lot and does get burnt some. He's not a legit #2. There are a LOT of starting CB's in the league that also aren't up to the task. Hence-he's #48. That's not really that big of a stretch to understand, right? Relative to others, he's #48. Out of #64.

Add in the nickel corners and that number looks better, but considering that a lot of #2's aren't all that great, then how good are the #3's on those teams? So in other words-that ranking doesn't really SAY anything at all, does it? Not really. His size and physical limitations are what they are. He's miscast as a #2. He's a slot guy, #3 or #4 CB on a PLUS DEFENSE.

Ok? OK.

LMAO

He's the best player on the last ranked defense in the NFL.

He sucks!

Of course Dalton is going to key on Green. That said, if you're not going to give a CB credit when they aren't targeted, then you aren't being fair. If Nelson's assignment was open, he would get targets. Clearly, more often than not, he wasn't.

Nelson is what he is.

He's a good man corner who's usually in position but doesn't have good ball awareness.

This is, in particular, a huge issue when he's matched up with WR's who DO have good ball tracking skills.

If Nelson could turn his head and track the ball he'd have a ton of interceptions. He's in good position most of the time he ALLOWS catches.

Sometimes players like that are the most frustrating. Guys with one glaring weakness that holds them back from being significantly better than they are.

Pretty much every team we play targets Nelson from the very first snap. Even when we go to a dime package they still seem to go after him. Tells you all you need to know.

So which half of CP thinks he sucks? I missed that poll.

He's Tom Bradys favorite Chief

Yep. Been saying it since Week 1. The guy needs to turn his head around.

Problem is, when you're playing man as a corner, you can't turn your head to find the football until it's the perfect time. Normally, you aren't going to get a lot of interceptions when you are playing man in the secondary. You're taught not to turn your head to look for the ball.

That's why good man corners are hard to find. They have to have PERFECT timing, otherwise they draw a bunch of PI's because they're hitting too early. Which happens to be the case with Nelson more often than not.

Pretty much.

The good ones don't get many chances because they cover their guy well.

We give up a billion passing yards and everyone thinks our corners suck. They've actually been pretty good. It's our safeties and linebackers that have been the problems

This is somewhat true. The real weak link in the pass defense, even on Sunday night is at safety. I saw them in Cover 2 several times against the Bengals where the safety was slow or took the wrong angle to the boundary. Parker does it WAY too much for a seasoned vet and I saw Lucas do it too.

That being said, our corners, especially Nelson and Fuller, haven't been stellar. For Nelson, it's a matter of limiting penalties, which he did Sunday night. The whole group is making progress.

Scandrick has been a real surprise. Imagine if we still had Amerson. Yikes. Fuller has been disappointing. I wasn't expecting Marcus Peters type play, but he's been fairly mediocre.

Nelson would be helped immensely by better safety play.

He's kinda trapped in the middle of Fuller and Scandrick, IMO. Fuller is a better athlete with more fluid movements and better quickness. He can be a little better out wide than Nelson because he's less likely to get straight up physically beaten. Scandrick, OTOH, is a roughly similar athlete to Nelson but he's a wiley veteran that knows some tricks that Nelson just doesn't. He's more aware and he's more cagey. He plays a little closer to the edge but it also makes him generally more effective, IMO.

Nelson is neither a superlative athlete nor is he a particularly intuitive cover guy. He's someone that can hang with WRs for a few steps because he's not a complete oaf out there, but if he's asked to hang for 2 seconds or more, he's probably beat. Your best hope with him is that he can mirror the first move because it's going to go downhill quickly from there given his relatively pedestrian athleticism. So he needs those safeties helping him out and to this point in the season they haven't been all that often.

Nelson's a JAG. If he's starting for you, you should be looking to upgrade. If he's your Nickel - you're probably okay there. He's been better than he was last year but maybe not quite as good as he was in the slot 2 years ago. Personally, I have no interest in paying him because adequate slot corners with physical limitations shouldn't be that hard to draft and develop.

But for the rest of the year, if the safeties get healthy (and Lucas continues to play well), you can cover for him. He's...okay. I'd say that Scandrick has clearly been better than him to this point and Fuller has more potential (and also looked decent on Sunday, IMO), but Nelson's a fine complementary defensive back who's worth having around until he costs real money.

I know he had a pick 6 on Sunday, but my god how awful of angles does Parker take? Like 3 times he takes a bad angle that gives up 20 plus extra yards.

Jesus.

It’s just so rare that I’ve seen Nelson make a play where he doesn’t look outmatched. Most plays I see him on look like pass interference, and he succeeds when refs don’t call it. Encouraging to see a good PFF grade, and obviously he isn’t getting burned too badly, so maybe my perception is wrong.

Parker has been abysmal. The Pick 6 was fun, but he's constantly out of position. I thought he was gambling to make up for some decline in footspeed but at this point I think the opposite is true. Gambling would be giving him credit for realizing he's not as fast as he used to be.

I think he simply has no idea that he's a step slower. You watch how frequently guys just defeat his angle and it looks like he's just surprised that he didn't get there sooner.

I still don't think you can put Murray and Lucas out there without Parker's veteran understanding of the coverage. But man, if Sorensen or Berry (Hahahahahaha!!!) ever make it back, I'd have to take Parker off the field. He's just not getting it done and he's turning 5-6 yard plays into 18-20 yard plays a couple of times/gm.

Scandrick is the same way. So was Ty Law back in his day.

The 'physical' brand of corners always play like that, especially when they're in man coverage. There's very little sexy about playing man - that's just like riding a bull. You really are just hanging on for dear life and waiting for the buzzer to sound.

Being ugly but effective is all you can ask of anyone but maybe the top 6-8 cover guys in the league. Zone coverage is different; you can read and react - hopefully cut under some routes and make plays that look like you saw them coming all the way. But that's just not a reasonable expectation in man.

He made a tackle the other night, and coming down got hit in the balls. Poor guy was in pain for about 10 minutes, and I felt bad for laughing. But between plays it looked like he was going to die. He showed up between the snap and the whistle, but I'm telling you I thought he was going to take a knee at one point.

Is that what happened? I remember it - he was in a crouch when the play ended and looked like he was trying to stretch out. Then he kept stomping his right foot, even right up to the snap. I thought his groin had grabbed on him because he was obviously uncomfortable.

Is his GIFS are wrong then I DON'T WANNA BE RIGHT!!
AMA RIGHT??

Put Murray and Lucas out there. It can't be worse. He's awful. He was a necessary evil early, but now, just no.

I don't know if they'll just outright cut him when the other 2 (1) comes back but they should.

Sully, where you been? Haven't seen you post in a while.

It's obvious why they tried to move on from him yet having 5 safeties get injured and here we are...

Contract year and is average.

In today’s nfl, average corners are very valuable.

If we don’t extend him, he will get a surprising FA contract somewhere. More than most think.

That’s a huge reason Veach needs to go get Patrick Peterson...the difference between Nelson and Petersonis probably only gonna be like 4m per.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure. It seemed pretty obvious when he got up from the pile he had gotten hit in the dingaling.

I'm around. Don't feel inclined to post much the past few years. Pick my spots, and all...

Aside from the fact that everyone on CP seems to agree PFF is worthless - (except in this one instance where they support my preconceived notions...)

I get that people are searching, wishing, and hoping for anything that might be a sign the defense can rise to the level of being somewhat competitive, and that we aren't doomed to a one and done again this year.

Berry will come back, we just need to fire Sutton and everything will be fine, we'll make a a trade, etc...

The homeristic trend now seems to be back, after passable games against struggling offenses in the Jaguars and Bengals, to claim the defense isn't really that bad and that we'll play home games in the postseason and the D will show up.

Well... it's possible but they only looked decent in two very poorly quarterbacked games. Those aren't the kind of QBs who are going to come calling in the postseason. (Heck they didn't even have enough to handle Marcus Mariotta last year, when they were better)

Nothing fundamental has changed about the red carpet defense in the past three days. They've been lit up by every quality offense they have played. They just don't have the horses.

The Bengals were a struggling offense?

Sometimes it just takes a bit longer for some to get it.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...=292756&page=6

:)

Dalton basically played at the same level Bortles did against us.

Great post. Couldn’t agree more.

He's average to a tick below average. He's better than Phillip Gaines but not as good as Fuller. He's injury prone. He has a hard time getting his head turned around. He gets DPI's a lot. He drops picks -dropped two against Cincy. His tackling is average to less than average. He's not very good in run support. Besides that..... he's basically Eric Warfield with slightly better coverage skills.

I know right?

The were the #6 scoring offense in the league before facing the Chiefs.