[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

No, it's not easy. But you HAVE to get production out low income guys to have a decent team in a salary cap sport. Herm did not do that. Herm ****ing sucked shit. His team that he built sucked shit. He did not do us any favors. He was horrible. You refuse to admit it.

The QB thing, I don't know why you're hung up on it. Herm had to do something. He blew a third rounder on a guy that was horrible. Won 0 NFL games ever. Dorsey spent 2 seconds on a guy that is servicable. Either one is very good, but to act like Herm did the better thing is just absurd.

I didn't say Herm did the better thing. I said that when Dorsey took over, there was an urgency to win now When Herm took over, there was an urgency to tear apart and rebuild. An Alex Smith like trade probably didn't make sense during the Herm years in way it did when Dorsey took over.

This must be where you and I disagree. The roster that he filled out was shit. He had dudes that flat out couldn't play at a lot of positions. We are looking at a competent personnel guy fill out the Chiefs in 3 years after an abysmal season. Look at the depth on the Chiefs team vs what it was in 08. It's not even funny. Herm hit on some guys. Whoo hoo. Any personnel guy can hit on some guys. Herm just filled the roster with complete hogshit outside of your 10 guys or whatever number you want to pick and say, "LOOK AT WHUT THE HERMZ DID, GUIZ". The team was shit.

Herm found a few guys, sure. But pointing to those guys as the basis for telling me I'm absurd for saying he wrecked the franchise is complete and utter shit. As as been pointed out, any football guy can come up with a few dudes, even the master of team trashing Pioli. Finding 6 guys that are good and a few more that belong on a roster does not excuse the complete and utter ****-up he dragged this franchise through. Are ways good teams turn the roster over and the good teams don't go 2-14.

Did Herm do an amazing job? No. But wreck is an absurd word. Wreck implies that he left Pioli with a mess. He inherited a mess and left a really good situation for Pioli.

Sure, not going out and over-spending on free agents is a good thing. I'm not saying he should have. You keep thinking I am, but I'm not. You can find FA's that have VALUE. Similar to a draft prospect, you can look at tape of a FA, and say I can work with that in my system. They don't have to be stars, but they have to outperform their contract. That is how good teams run FA's, save for Green Bay that never brings anybody in.

Herm ****ing failed miserably at personnel because he could not bring in an FA that was worth a shit. Sure he ran 120 or whatever the number was off UDFA's through here and all that yielded....Dantrell Savage. Let's not pretend he didn't take a bunch of swings and whiffs. Like that goddamned UDFA WR that he wanted to run the option for him (**** Herm. Seriously.).

Herm failed miserably at constructing a roster that could be competitive. You can whine about DV, despite the remarkably higher number of guys that went on to play 3 years than Herm had. You can whine about the cap, that he had 3 years to fix. You can whine about Herm being misunderstood and that the ENTIRE NFL was missing the boat on "good" players like Tank Tyler and Turk McBride. You can whine about having to turn the roster over, despite other teams doing it and not being a ****ing joke. But the bottom line is this:

tl;dr Herm failed at building a roster that was even remotely close to competing. **** Herm.

Most GMs can hide blemishes on the roster by making a few big FA moves over 3 years, but also sprinkling in a ton of small moves. While adding Howard, Parker, etc... is brilliant, we also spent a shitload on Vance Walker, Fasano, etc.... So overall, we spent a lot of money on these stopgap small moves in total. I agree that we didn't do great from the FA haul. But it's also unfair to compare him to, say, Pioli who inherited $57M in cap space. $57M allows you a lot of wiggle room to **** up on guys like Winston and Boss and Breaston.

So because Herm had no cap room to work with by 2008, how many of these small moves did we hold off on making that could have hidden a few of our blemishes? Given Carl Peterson's history of trying to put lipstick on a pig (arguably, probably the only reason we signed Huard to that ridiculous contract), I think we're really undermining how radical a direction it was for Herm to say enough with this band-aid bullshit, let's do a true rebuild. Over the many years in Kansas City, it is one of the only times we made the bold move to commit to a rebuild of this size.