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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale
Tell me, other than being pretty, what good qualities did this film have?
Interesting characters? Nope. Main character has no motivation,
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Main characters are Rey and Ren. They seemed pretty motivated to me.
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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale
Finn's story was time filler and his character arc was exactly the same as TFA (him overcoming his cowardice)
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I didn't care for Finn's story as much as the rest of the movie, but I don't, and have never seen him as a coward. He had the stones to defy FO orders to fire the town, the stones to break Poe out in order to escape the FO, the stones to try to rescue Rey as she's being taken by Ren and then the stones to infiltrate star killer base (again to rescue Rey). Not much cowardice there IMO. In TLJ, his knee-jerk reaction to leave was more-so about preventing Rey from returning to what he believed was a sinking ship. Then he returns to the fight to try to infiltrate the snoke ship and ultimately tries a suicide run to disable the battering ram. I've found him as a character that, while not obviously heroic, time after time finds courage to try to help his new-found friends.
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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale
Luke is a bitch,
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I don't agree. I found Luke's evolution entirely plausible. The Jedi order, slaughtered... Luke's new Jedi school, slaughtered. Is it all that surprising that he comes to the conclusion that the Jedi way isn't working... and decides to seclude himself for research and reflection? I really liked Luke and found him to be the least "bitchy" version of Luke we've seen and his confrontation with Ren at the end of TLJ is far more in-line with actual Jedi teachings than the Jedi of the clone wars, etc. Which seems to be in-line with what he's come to believe after all of these years.
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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale
Snoke can alter space/time, and apparently force ghosts can use the force to devastating effect.
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I'm not sure why so many find the new force powers introduced in TLJ so sacrilege to Star Wars. Before ESB we didn't know the force could be used to move physical objects, before Return, we didn't know the force could be used to shoot bolts of lighting from your fingertips, before the prequals, we didn't know the force could be used catch the aforementioned lightning in your hand, or used to jump incredible distances, or bring back the dead (as palpatine claims the Jedi won't teach). Why then is a force version of face-time so out of the question? And fwiw, Johnson ran all of this past George Lucas's guy at Lucasfilm, that is the keeper of this kind of stuff, and was given an unequivocal green light, so if he is cool with it, why shouldn't we be?
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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale
Maybe Luke will come back and be a bad ass since he was a ridiculously weak Jedi compared to Snoke.... Luke dies projecting an image. Snoke alters time/space with no effect..
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I don't claim to know the physical toll it takes to do either of these force actions. Apparently it is more strenuous to do the projection than the force face-time? Dunno. Or maybe Snoke WAS more powerful than Luke, or maybe Luke just didn't keep up with his cardio in his exhile... don't really know. But do we know enough to come to a conclusion that it isn't realistic in the SW universe?
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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale
but hey, his freakish power is undermined by his obscene stupidity and looney tunes style death. Nice writing. Let's not go with the OBVIOUS set up here. Let's just make them both die in really stupid ways and then praise how it subverted expectations!
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I think his freakish power was ultimately undermined by his over confidence. He didn't think it was possible for Ren to deceive him in this way and never saw it coming. I disagree that they died in stupid ways. I was shocked when Snoke bought it. Thought it was totally freakin' unexpected and awesome. And I loved how Luke went out. Completely heroic, completely awesome and completely realistic (as it would have been completely unrealistic if, after years of exile, he comes out and starts somersaulting all over the place and mopping the floor with Ren).
Of course, it SHOULD go without saying, that all of this is just my opinion.