[BigRock]

Originally Posted by Micjones

Weren't you sold on the credibility-straining article from Maureen Orth (who never knew Jackson personally), who fully believes Michael to be guilty?

Should I again bring up the fact that Michael's lawyers, who often went after people that made certain claims, never once challenged anything printed in the Vanity Fair columns?

But it doesn't matter. As I said before, we can throw out any subjective material from the Vanity Fair columns and just focus on the facts archived within them. You're the one who was so big on people ignoring facts, remember?

Clearly, though, you have no interest in any facts that don't support your side of the story.

Originally Posted by Micjones

Mind you, the biographer Taraborrelli has said on the record that he did not know if Jackson had molested Chandler or not.

Assuming you're correct -- which, let's be honest, has been rare here -- is that supposed to overule him saying he believes Michael is innocent?

Originally Posted by Micjones

This is the SAME biographer who was critical of Michael's choices in life on a number of occasions both personally and in print. I think that dispatches this idea that the biography was merely fluff

Oh, OK. Because the biographer was critical of some of Michael's life choices, it doesn't really matter that his book is the ONLY place you'll find references to two major items suggesting Michael's innocence.

I see.

Originally Posted by Micjones

Taraborrelli's accounts of Katz

Taraborrelli's accounts of Katz are irrelevant. As I've already mentioned, Katz had sessions with both the accuser from the criminal trial and his brother, and he believed they were telling the truth. Katz, as he's required to do, contacted Child Protective Services because he believed the boy had been molested.

This is not speculation. This is not conjecture. This is a matter of public record. Of course, it's not a detail you'll find on Wikipedia, so I can understand how this might be new information to you.

This doctor, who you yourself held up as a grand expert, believed the accuser when he said he'd been abused by Michael Jackson.

Does that not give you pause?

Originally Posted by Micjones

the sodium amytal, and the strip search

Two claims that you'll only find in one specific book, at least one of which has been specifically refuted on the record by the LA District Attorney. Yet you freely accept both claims as the gospel truth.

Again, I point out how odd it is that you're so willing to believe any little nugget that suggests Michael's innocence, while you put on your tap shoes and shuffle around actual documented facts supporting his guilt.

Originally Posted by Micjones

You mean the same TSG article that says, "If the harrowing and deeply disturbing allegations in these documents are true..."

I'm sorry, do you not understand the difference between facts and allegations?

- It is a FACT that more than two boys accused Michael Jackson. A third accuser testified at Jackson's criminal trial.

- It is a FACT that tons of porn was removed from Neverland. You can see the search warrant article at The Smoking Gun, to say nothing of the evidence introduced at trial.

- It is a FACT that they found fingerprints from Michael, an accuser, and the accuser's brother on dirty magazines taken from Michael's bedroom.

- It is a FACT that Michael plead the fifth on the subject of child molestation.

And so on and so on down the list I made earlier. These aren't "allegations". Do you see the difference?

Just be honest: you have no interest in honestly discussing anything here. You're all about discussing the facts until ones come up that don't fit your position, and then you're as guilty of driving around those speed bumps as anyone, if not moreso.

Your entire argument boils down to this: