Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho
They are now. They started being that in 2014/2015.
In 2012, when Matheny took over the defending World Champs, Theo Epstein was about 3 months into the job and just restarting the rebuild process. The Cubs weren’t good until 2015 and their farm system didn’t reach elite levels until 2014.
Matheny took over a team with an established, elite hitter (Holliday), one of the 2-3 best catchers in baseball (Molina), a legitimate ace starter (Wainwright), several good emerging young players (Allen Craig, David Freese, Lance Lynn, Jaime Garcia, Jon Jay) and a top 5-10 farm system at the outset of 2012 that became the top farm system as the season wore on.
It also was a team that was able to attract Carlos Beltran in free agency.
Matheny won a lot of games early because of what he inherited, but he also burned through several young arms (he’s a great example of bullpen abuse - not just overusing guys in actual games, but also of “getting them hot” multiple times in a game, which is just as damaging),
|
He took over a very good MLB roster and they stayed near the top of the League for 5 years. It seems to me that's just as expected. Cards fans can't accept they've been passed by several teams (incl their rival) and Matheny is the fall guy.
Quote:
|
he struggled with young players who were not part of his clique (Wong, Tavares, Shelby Miller, Carlos Martinez have all had difficulties with him), and FA goodwill dried up.
|
Once Tavares died, that pipeline looked a bit thin. I don't agree they had a very good collection of talent at all, it's middle of the pack to me. Certainly not the Cubs insane level (no point even listing them all, but I will point out Gleyber Torres and Eloy Jimenez never even made it to Wrigley, the talent is so good).
The Cubs, Astros are on a diff level. Dodgers, Nats a bit behind.
Quote:
|
The Cubs surpassed the Cardinals in 2016, but up to that point, the Cardinals were the stronger organization.
|
Dunno about that, Cubs beat them in the 2015 playoffs, had a better year metrics wise, and were brimming with incredible young talent. I'd say it happened 2014 at latest. Possibly June 2013 when Bryant was drafted.
Quote:
Matheny’s ineptness in so many key phases of managing (clubhouse, player development, bullpen) is a key part of the Cardinals’ fall.
Mozeliak owns a big part of their decline, too. But Matheny owns a huge portion of it.
|
Could be. But it's hard to win with an aging roster and middle of the pack pipeline. GM was able to dump Shelby Miller and Heyward at the perfect time, wrapped up carpenter cheap, and has developed some nice cheap young arms so there's that.