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Originally Posted by Peyton's Princess
That whole "Manning needed an extra return TD" argument is bullshit. No one knows that those drives wouldn't have ended in TD's either way, and no one knows how the game plays out otherwise if they didn't happen. It's a stupid ****ing argument.
Did Flacco outplay Manning through 4 quarters? I'm not sure. It was close. He made good throws to his receivers who made good plays (abusing Champ Bailey). Peyton Manning also made two really good TD throws that were dead on as well. Manning also led a "game winning" drive...and the Broncos also elected to run on 3rd and 7 when a 1st down would have ended the game outright.
That is totally debatable that Flacco outplayed Manning. It was close. He definitely outplayed him in overtime though I'm not sure that has anything to do with any plays Flacco made...just the fact Manning played like horseshit and looked like his arm was about to fall off in OT.
Lets not act like Flacco was some world beater of a man completing 53% of his passes for a 65 QBR against Denver. If Rahim Moore doesn't happen, your new phenomenon about Joe Flacco being elite doesn't happen.
The dude just isn't elite. At no point, up until a few wow throws this postseason, IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER, have I ever watched Joe Flacco and thought..."wow, he could be great."
Doesn't pass the eye test. Not one bit. One Super Bowl where you get the bounces doesn't do much for me.
The Pats could have put that game away in the 1st half if they played Patriots like offense...but they couldn't convert 3rd and shorts...and let Flacco hang around...hang around...hang around...and then Tom couldn't do shit and the game got out of hand.
But I am not trying to sell what he did short. He played really well this postseason. He got gifted some Eli luck and ran with it. It was impressive.
But one stretch in a long enough career doesn't suddenly make me think, "oh man, this guy is elite." He has talent, but his inconsistency is just too much for me to put him in the top 8. He's fringe. Personally, I'd take 13 QB's over Joe Flacco.
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You seem to be conflating me with other people. I don't think Joe Flacco is a top five QB. He's not elite. But he had an elite postseason, just like Eli did, as you rightly point out. I'd definitely take Flacco over Romo solely for the age factor and I think Flacco still has potential to grow and develop as a QB, whereas Romo is leaving his prime.
Regarding the return factor: I think you're underestimating it. While you are right that it's impossible to know what happened, we all know what a demonstrable effect return TDs have on momentum. When Vermeil was here he always talked about how difficult it was to beat a team that had a return touchdown because it upsets the balance of the game so much, and I agree with that.
I'm higher on Flacco than you, and obviously lower than Romo, but I don't think he's in the Rodgers-Brady category. But he's earned entrance into the Eli category, and their play in the postseason elevates them above good fantasy QBs, to me at least.