The #1 reason CP should say YES to Al Saunders - (And the main reason he won't)

[B_Ambuehl]

Forget about the fact that he's coordinated the top offense in the nfl the last 4 years. Forget the fact that he's obviously the best candidate available and already on the staff. Forget the fact that whether he stays or goes could decide whether hall of famers on the offensive line stay or go.

The real reason Saunders should be named head coach is right here. The real reason Saunders WON'T be named head coach is also right here as well.

This was from last summer and I bookmarked it for future reference.

Some of you may recall a guy from the coalition by the name of "former db" from training camp last year. He's a media guy and former football player from Pittsburgh who is also a die hard chiefs fan. He covered the Chiefs training camp last year and provided some really good interviews and info. Anyway, he had this to say about a conversation with Frank Ganz last summer:

http://www.chiefscoalition.com/Forum...=29295&hl=ganz

Some of you already know I'm up here in Pittsburgh. Frank Gantz Sr. lives here too and we're very familiar with each other because he is, of course the former coach and he knows me from my job as a television reporter.

Now that thats out of the way, I spotted Gantz and his wife in a grocery store, Whole Foods (bunch of healthy stuff).
He was wearing Chiefs shorts, t-shirt and cap, he made me laugh.

Anyway here are some of the things he shared with me based on the conversations he has with Vermeil about three times a week.

NEW COACH:
Gantz believes Herman Edwards will get strong consideration as the next Chiefs head coach, for a couple of reasons. First, he says head coaches wear out their welcome very fast, even if they're winners. Most importantly, he says the Chiefs front office is enamored with Edwards. Al Saunders will be considered too HOWEVER... HOWEVER, Saunders and Carl Peterson are the two primary parities in regards to the political in-fighting within the organziation. Gantz says the Saunders doesn't back down to Peterson, gets in his face and will tell him his ideas are wrong. They don't share the same philosophy in regards to player evaluations either. I got the strong impression, and Gantz feels this too, that Saunders would be the person to knock Peterson's ego sideways. So Gantz wouldn't be surpirsed if Saunders is passed over as Vermeil's successor.

LARRY JOHNSON:
He says the Chiefs are very sorry Derrick Blaylock is gone. They say that Larry Johnson can't do nearly as many things as Blaylock. They must reconfigure a lot of packages minimize Johnson's short-comings. Gantz says Johson can run, but there's a lot more to the game than just running the rock.

BOOMER GRIGSBY:
May be a starter. Gantz and I had fun talking about the MLB position, as does everyone else. Vermeil told him that Boomer is awesome and that Vermeil isn't letting on to how well this guy REALLY is to the media. Apparently, Boomer is ALWAYS, ALWAYS in position to make the tackle and his technique is flawless. Here's the funny part of our conversation, Gantz asked me why did Grigsby last until the 5th round. I'm like, DUHHHHH!!! He laughed like hell. Gantz and I both think the battle at MLB is between Boomer and Scanlon. He really likes Kawitka Mitchell but it doesn't seem like he's the answer. Everybody is caught up with Boomer's mentality and core toughness to play the position. I informed Gantz of Boomer's gymnastics background and he was even further impressed with the kid.

KENDRELL BELL:
He's NOT healthy from what Vermeil shared with Gantz. Now I thought Bell came back to practice after straining his groin. Perhaps Vermeil is keeping his health undercover but Gantz' voice was noticably grim when talking about Bell's health.
I just hope he is 100 percent by training camp.

GANTZ:
We plan on bumping into each other at training camp because Vermeil asked him to address the team and Gantz is excited to do so. He and I both believe the Chiefs were brilliant in drafting the punter in the third round. Now, while we talked for about 20 minutes, his wife was smoothly filling the cart. She's a wonderful lady, very understanding of two football nuts talking Chiefs football at the deli counter.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by tk13

You don't know if Al is going to be mediocre though. You have absolutely no clue. You are just making an assumption. You could sit here and talk until your head fell off of your shoulders, and it would not make your point any more logical.

I wouldn't call Al's job here the last 5 years mediocre either really.

And you have absolutely no clue that he won't be mediocre. You don't know if he'll continue with this offense or not.

It's ALL assumption.

However, most in the "Keep Al" camp are treating their assumptions as foregone conclusions.

I never said my argument was logical.

This team is SICK. When you excise an abcess, you inevitably have to remove some of the good tissue with the bad. Al's only crime was that he was associated with Dick Vermeil.

And for me, that's enough to make me not want him.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by jspchief

Neither do you.

We are all expressing opinions based on nothing but our own guesses and assumptions.

I guess the biggest difference to me is that some people believe that Al can fix this team, while I believe he can't.

I don't expect some new coach to come in and fix our current team. I expect him to build his own team.

Look at the teams that are in the play-offs this year. How many of them are built from a young nucleus, and how many of them are extensions of a crumbling empire?

Joe New Coach won't win us the Superbowl next year. But in 2008, we might have something that resembles the '06 Bengals, rather than something that resembles the '06 Rams.

[tk13]

Originally Posted by jspchief

Neither do you.

We are all expressing opinions based on nothing but our own guesses and assumptions.

I guess the biggest difference to me is that some people believe that Al can fix this team, while I believe he can't.

I don't expect some new coach to come in and fix our current team. I expect him to build his own team.

Look at the teams that are in the play-offs this year. How many of them are built from a young nucleus, and how many of them are extensions of a crumbling empire?

Joe New Coach won't win us the Superbowl next year. But in 2008, we might have something that resembles the '06 Bengals, rather than something that resembles the '06 Rams.

I never once claimed to know that Al was going to succeed. I don't, he could be a miserable failure.

But I wasn't the one making the claim he was mediocre. You can't accuse me of something I didn't assume. All I've said is he deserves a shot. If guys like Gregg Williams and Ron Rivera deserve a shot, then Al Saunders deserves a shot, somewhere.

And I'll say what I've said before. We aren't a crumbling empire. I don't think we have 10 years left or anything, but this is not anything close to a crumbling empire. We have four offensive linemen for sure Waters/Wiegmann/Black/Welbourn... and it's no guarantee Roaf will retire, he's said he wants to play.

Everybody seems to be dumping on Gonzalez... he's 29 years old. He only needs 3 catches and 81 yards to reach the third best totals of his entire career. Considering his two best seasons ahead of this one have been 100 catch, 1200 yard type seasons, that's not too shabby. It's not like Gonzo has gone in the tank.

But, if you wanna scrap this team and wait until '08 to win you might as well completely dismantle it, because you're probably gonna waste the rest of Gonzo's prime and LJ's best years in the process. I don't expect a new coach to come here and completely clean house like DV did, whether it's Al or not. That has no bearing on this discussion to me. That's not why I'd be interested in Al, because we have to get better, we wouldn't be "extending" anything, just hiring an accomplished coach, just like we would be if we hired Rivera or Childress or whoever.

[tk13]

This is like arguing with two women. I never made any claims that he'd be successful, only that he has a good resume and is not any less deserving of a head coaching job than anybody else that's been named on this thread.

Other people make an assumption, I call them out for it, and then they somehow turn it on me making an assumption I never made. This got messed up somewhere.

[Logical]

The main reason I want to see Al gone is a new Head Coach from outside the organization may have some leverage and we might see the entire coaching staff swept away. I think that is crucial to our effort to get a fresh start.

[stevieray]

So now we're down to getting a new HC and new Coordinators, scrapping this old offense and hoping it's rebuilt by 2008?

[Logical]

Originally Posted by stevieray

So now we're down to getting a new HC and new Coordinators, scrapping this old offense and hoping it's rebuilt by 2008?

I don't know about that Stevie, the age of our offensive players is more the issue than the coordinator in that regard. Salary cap due to their time under contract will be far too negative to keep them all around even if they are able to still perform. We let the window get away from us, thus the 5 point game average score drop this year, it will only get worse until the rebuilding occurs.

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by tk13

I never once claimed to know that Al was going to succeed. I don't, he could be a miserable failure.

But I wasn't the one making the claim he was mediocre. You can't accuse me of something I didn't assume.

I'm not accusing you of anything. I'm just stating the simple fact that every one of us is talking out of our asses at this point. Surely you understand that what htis is saying is his opinon? I don't think he's trying to pass it off as fact any more than you are trying to claim Saunders is guranteed to be a successful head coach.

Hitsmaqe thinks Al will be mediocre.
You think he will be good.
etc, etc, etc.

It's all based on personal opinions. You act like Htis' opinion is so ludicrous because it's not based in fact, but it's not like anyone else's opinion is based any more in fact.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by tk13

I never once claimed to know that Al was going to succeed. I don't, he could be a miserable failure.

It's not about success. It's about people (not necessarily you) assuming that hiring Al = keeping THIS offense intact. It's anything but a guarantee.

Originally Posted by tk13

But I wasn't the one making the claim he was mediocre. You can't accuse me of something I didn't assume. All I've said is he deserves a shot. If guys like Gregg Williams and Ron Rivera deserve a shot, then Al Saunders deserves a shot, somewhere.

I never said Al was mediocre. Al was part of a TEAM of coaches that was mediocre. That TEAM needs to go. Football is more than just a little about mentality and this team has a loser mentality. If several of us view hiring Al as trying to continue the existing regime, you can damn bet several of the players look at it that way too.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by stevieray

So now we're down to getting a new HC and new Coordinators, scrapping this old offense and hoping it's rebuilt by 2008?

Who's to say Al won't take this offense in a new direction? Mike Martz did it in St. Louis.

[tk13]

Originally Posted by jspchief

I'm not accusing you of anything. I'm just stating the simple fact that every one of us is talking out of our asses at this point. Surely you understand that what htis is saying is his opinon? I don't think he's trying to pass it off as fact any more than you are trying to claim Saunders is guranteed to be a successful head coach.

Hitsmaqe thinks Al will be mediocre.
You think he will be good.
etc, etc, etc.

It's all based on personal opinions. You act like Htis' opinion is so ludicrous because it's not based in fact, but it's not like anyone else's opinion is based any more in fact.

But, I never claimed he would be good. I don't know that. I think he has a good resume of success that is comparable to any coach we'll interview though.

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by stevieray

So now we're down to getting a new HC and new Coordinators, scrapping this old offense and hoping it's rebuilt by 2008?

Sort of, yes.

For instance, a new coach could look at bringing in a young QB right away, and he would get to learn under Green for a few years. I don't think Saunders would bring in true competition for the QB spot.

A new coach could look at the players that don't fit his defensive schemes, and start getting rid of some of them.

"Rebuild" isn't a dirty word. It's going to have to happen. But if we start early enough, we won't end up like the Titans, where it all hits at once because they put it off in favor of prolonging their "almost there" team.

[stevieray]

Originally Posted by Vlad Logicslav

I don't know about that Stevie, the age of our offensive players is more the issue than the coordinator in that regard. Salary cap due to their time under contract will be far too negative to keep them all around even if they are able to still perform. We let the window get away from us, thus the 5 point game average score drop this year, it will only get worse until the rebuilding occurs.

ha! like the rebuilding guarantees success?

The next regime will be just as scrutinized and thrown under the bus the first chance that presents itself.

You need to read IdahoJims article on this offense being "old".

Five points a game? You can't expect the same production in different seasons. It's still one of the NFL's best.

OTOH, my gut says big shakeup at Arrowhead, it will be intersting to see how it plays out.

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by tk13

But, I never claimed he would be good. I don't know that. I think he has a good resume of success that is comparable to any coach we'll interview though.

The fact that you think he deserves a shot at head coach sort of implies that you think he'd be good.

Unless you're telling me you want the Chiefs to consider a guy that you don't think will be good.

[FringeNC]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

It's not about success. It's about people (not necessarily you) assuming that hiring Al = keeping THIS offense intact. It's anything but a guarantee.



I never said Al was mediocre. Al was part of a TEAM of coaches that was mediocre. That TEAM needs to go. Football is more than just a little about mentality and this team has a loser mentality. If several of us view hiring Al as trying to continue the existing regime, you can damn bet several of the players look at it that way too.

What's this psycho babble about the team having a loser mentality? Does Trent Green Does LJ? Does Roaf? I think not.

Almost all of us agree that the problem is the D. I guess it all boils down to whether you consider DV/AS responsible for the putrid D because of the supposed soft ship they run or whatever. You do hold them responsible for the D; I don't. Nor do I give Tony Dungy credit for having a great offense in Indy. I think he has absolutely nothing to do with it.