2023 Free Agency

[O.city]

Figured we could get one of these going as well.

Who's some guys we like, would like to see in KC?

[JohnnyHammersticks]

Originally Posted by O.city

Definitely could. McKinnon is 30 though and seemed to wear down a bit last year I thought.

Either way, I'm good.

He scored 8 TDs in our last 6 regular season games.

Hope he continues to "wear down" like that.

[Chris Meck]

The point is, which I think some of you are missing, is that a big, space eating run stuffer is not an expensive or hard to find player.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by JohnnyHammersticks

He scored 8 TDs in our last 6 regular season games.

Hope he continues to "wear down" like that.

I think it's more that they have to be careful how often he plays because he'll get injured etc.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

The point is, which I think some of you are missing, is that a big, space eating run stuffer is not an expensive or hard to find player.

The point kccrow is making is that you would ideally want more than that next to Jones to optimize the situation.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by O.city

The point kccrow is making is that you would ideally want more than that next to Jones to optimize the situation.

The key word is 'ideally'.

And what you 'need' next to Jones is a big body that requires a double team so that you can't double them both on run downs, and then for passing sets you move guys around to take advantage of individual match-ups.

What we're missing right this minute is the big boy.

A three down stud would be really nice, but is not a 'need', it's a 'want'.

[smithandrew051]

I’m liking the Chiefs today

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by kccrow

I think the Chiefs are going to count primarily on the growth of their young investments at WR to take over for JuJu and Mecole. I mean we're talking about 1st and 2nd rounders taking over those spots. I'd be a lot more concerned if it were 5th and 6th rounders. Right now we're out Watson and Kemp. I'm not too worried about matching that. Any investment there will pretty much do. No, I don't have reservations about Skyy Moore taking on the Mecole role at all. The only reservation I'd have is Toney not staying healthy. That's where an upgrade from Watson but not necessarily going "all-in" might be a decent play. I wouldn't mind a WR relatively early (top 4 rounds). I'm more concerned about replacing the productivity of Jerick McKinnon in the passing game right now than I am about replacing Watson.

I agree - but that still leaves us with the need to backfill the snaps/production that Toney and Moore provided via their previous usage. Though I don't think Moore can take on Mecole's role at all. He's just not that level of athlete. And he doesn't make up for it with contact balance or elusiveness. He was largely awful when asked to do some of the things we did with Mecole unless he was just schemed wide the hell open. Mecole, OTOH, could get real skinny and get real fast and simply create yards after the catch. Elijah Moore would've been an interesting option there but barring him I think Zaccheus and the kid out of NOLA (Callaway?) present intriguing Hardman replacements. Skyy, OTOH, just isn't that kind of player. Not better, not worse, just much different. If there's a guy on the roster who can run those Mecole plays, it's Toney and frankly I think that's a waste of a guy with #1 receiver ability.

And with the reliability issues Toney presents (injury) and the real concerns that Moore just ain't that good, you're really working without a net if you're leaning into them too heavily.

I'm not saying we need 8 additions to WR or anything - I think we need 1 who can at least be on par with the possible risk/reward posture of Toney/Moore and MVS.

I think if you have 4 guys like that you can probably count on getting 'hits' out of 2 of them. But man, if you're looking at 3 of them, there's a real possibility you only come out of there with 1 genuine contributor and even that level of contribution may not be what you hoped.

I'm just fine with a numbers game at WR - but damn man, at a point you need some actual numbers. That's why I suggested something as simple as Chark/Zaccheus/2nd day pick to round out the group. At that point you do have a fair amount of options that really MIGHT be good.

But you gotta add SOMETHING prior to the draft, IMO, or you're going into that draft desperately needing substantial talent with a high probability of immediate contributions at WR.

[kccrow]

Danny Shelton and Brandon Williams aren't guys I'd hang my hat on for anything at this point in their careers. Both are washed.

I don't know what Veach would do for sure but starting caliber DTs should be on the docket IMO.

I'm hoping he does something like signing A'Shawn Robinson on a 1-year deal and makes a couple of picks... It doesn't have to be a 1st on a guy like Mazi Smith but maybe a 3rd on Zacch Pickens and a 5th on Dante Stills or something like that would go a long way toward actually addressing how bad the DT position is.

That still gives you some room to address some other things in the 1st, 2nd, and 4th x 2.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I agree - but that still leaves us with the need to backfill the snaps/production that Toney and Moore provided via their previous usage. Though I don't think Moore can take on Mecole's role at all. He's just not that level of athlete. And he doesn't make up for it with contact balance or elusiveness. He was largely awful when asked to do some of the things we did with Mecole unless he was just schemed wide the hell open. Mecole, OTOH, could get real skinny and get real fast and simply create yards after the catch. Elijah Moore would've been an interesting option there but barring him I think Zaccheus and the kid out of NOLA (Callaway?) present intriguing Hardman replacements. Skyy, OTOH, just isn't that kind of player. Not better, not worse, just much different. If there's a guy on the roster who can run those Mecole plays, it's Toney and frankly I think that's a waste of a guy with #1 receiver ability.

And with the reliability issues Toney presents (injury) and the real concerns that Moore just ain't that good, you're really working without a net if you're leaning into them too heavily.

I'm not saying we need 8 additions to WR or anything - I think we need 1 who can at least be on par with the possible risk/reward posture of Toney/Moore and MVS.

I think if you have 4 guys like that you can probably count on getting 'hits' out of 2 of them. But man, if you're looking at 3 of them, there's a real possibility you only come out of there with 1 genuine contributor and even that level of contribution may not be what you hoped.

I'm just fine with a numbers game at WR - but damn man, at a point you need some actual numbers. That's why I suggested something as simple as Chark/Zaccheus/2nd day pick to round out the group. At that point you do have a fair amount of options that really MIGHT be good.

But you gotta add SOMETHING prior to the draft, IMO, or you're going into that draft desperately needing substantial talent with a high probability of immediate contributions at WR.

I'd agree, if nothing is done they are telegraphing that first pick is a WR.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

I don't think Danny Shelton should be in any plans at this point.

Agreed - he's really not on my radar.

There's a reason he wasn't playing ahead of Nnadi and we signed Williams off the street rather than give him any real run.

Shelton was lousy when he was 'good'. I think he had one halfway decent season in his career then he was struggling to get run with some of the worst teams in football in 2020 and 2021. Then we threw him a life raft (presumptively a very large one) right before camp in 2022 and he still couldn't get on the field.

He's a non-entity.

[Mecca]

Interesting tidbit, Dawand Jones didn't do anything at Ohio State's pro day which means he's run a 40 and done nothing else....that likely won't help his stock.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

The key word is 'ideally'.

And what you 'need' next to Jones is a big body that requires a double team so that you can't double them both on run downs, and then for passing sets you move guys around to take advantage of individual match-ups.

What we're missing right this minute is the big boy.

A three down stud would be really nice, but is not a 'need', it's a 'want'.

The issue is, there's not "passing downs" in the NFL anymore. That's every down.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I agree - but that still leaves us with the need to backfill the snaps/production that Toney and Moore provided via their previous usage. Though I don't think Moore can take on Mecole's role at all. He's just not that level of athlete. And he doesn't make up for it with contact balance or elusiveness. He was largely awful when asked to do some of the things we did with Mecole unless he was just schemed wide the hell open. Mecole, OTOH, could get real skinny and get real fast and simply create yards after the catch. Elijah Moore would've been an interesting option there but barring him I think Zaccheus and the kid out of NOLA (Callaway?) present intriguing Hardman replacements. Skyy, OTOH, just isn't that kind of player. Not better, not worse, just much different. If there's a guy on the roster who can run those Mecole plays, it's Toney and frankly I think that's a waste of a guy with #1 receiver ability.

And with the reliability issues Toney presents (injury) and the real concerns that Moore just ain't that good, you're really working without a net if you're leaning into them too heavily.

I'm not saying we need 8 additions to WR or anything - I think we need 1 who can at least be on par with the possible risk/reward posture of Toney/Moore and MVS.

I think if you have 4 guys like that you can probably count on getting 'hits' out of 2 of them. But man, if you're looking at 3 of them, there's a real possibility you only come out of there with 1 genuine contributor and even that level of contribution may not be what you hoped.

I'm just fine with a numbers game at WR - but damn man, at a point you need some actual numbers. That's why I suggested something as simple as Chark/Zaccheus/2nd day pick to round out the group. At that point you do have a fair amount of options that really MIGHT be good.

But you gotta add SOMETHING prior to the draft, IMO, or you're going into that draft desperately needing substantial talent with a high probability of immediate contributions at WR.

On Skyy... maybe it's actually best if he is the guy in the JuJu role and Toney is the guy in the Hardman role, to be honest. Skyy is actually a really hard cover with his ability to run routes and does have outstanding hands. I'm making the assumption that his biggest problem last year was not learning the playbook fast enough/well enough to be a major contributor. I think his skills project well to a slot possession type. Toney's athleticism plays more into the move/gadget role. I rightly don't care who emerges as the better player and I know Reid will put them in the best roles to succeed.

I do agree adding a vet of some type is prudent before the draft. I really like Callaway because of how good he looked when he actually got significant PT in 2021 but it's probably wishful thinking by me to think Veach would add him. I picked him because of his route running and ability to win in contested situations. I think he'd be a nice hedging of your bets if the Moore/Toney pair doesn't fill JuJu's role adequately or one gets hurt. I feel like going for broke with a D-Hop or otherwise, is just simply not giving your young guys a chance. It's that problem of going all-in at the potential cost in the future because you didn't grow your own talent. I'd be more inclined to continue to add speed via the draft.

I don't much want anything to do with Chark. Taking a chance on him a couple of years ago would have been a thing for me. Now, just not interested as he can't stay healthy for more than 2/3 of the season.

At the end of the day you might have to pick your poison on where to best add the highest-end talent is and right now I think my vote is firmly in the trenches.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

The issue is, there's not "passing downs" in the NFL anymore. That's every down.

There are maybe 5-6 teams in the league that have a true interior rusher anywhere near the level of Jones.

Passing downs are of little concern, IMO. At least not when it comes to DT, especially when Omenihu can do some inside rushing.

From a pure roster construction standpoint, Meck is 100% right - while having another multi-purpose interior lineman who can collapse the pocket AND stuff the run would be really nice, it's no sort of need. We could send Danny Shelton out there and still get better interior pressure than 80% of the league.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I agree - but that still leaves us with the need to backfill the snaps/production that Toney and Moore provided via their previous usage. Though I don't think Moore can take on Mecole's role at all. He's just not that level of athlete. And he doesn't make up for it with contact balance or elusiveness. He was largely awful when asked to do some of the things we did with Mecole unless he was just schemed wide the hell open. Mecole, OTOH, could get real skinny and get real fast and simply create yards after the catch. Elijah Moore would've been an interesting option there but barring him I think Zaccheus and the kid out of NOLA (Callaway?) present intriguing Hardman replacements. Skyy, OTOH, just isn't that kind of player. Not better, not worse, just much different. If there's a guy on the roster who can run those Mecole plays, it's Toney and frankly I think that's a waste of a guy with #1 receiver ability.

And with the reliability issues Toney presents (injury) and the real concerns that Moore just ain't that good, you're really working without a net if you're leaning into them too heavily.

I'm not saying we need 8 additions to WR or anything - I think we need 1 who can at least be on par with the possible risk/reward posture of Toney/Moore and MVS.

I think if you have 4 guys like that you can probably count on getting 'hits' out of 2 of them. But man, if you're looking at 3 of them, there's a real possibility you only come out of there with 1 genuine contributor and even that level of contribution may not be what you hoped.

I'm just fine with a numbers game at WR - but damn man, at a point you need some actual numbers. That's why I suggested something as simple as Chark/Zaccheus/2nd day pick to round out the group. At that point you do have a fair amount of options that really MIGHT be good.

But you gotta add SOMETHING prior to the draft, IMO, or you're going into that draft desperately needing substantial talent with a high probability of immediate contributions at WR.

I'm all about trusting the regime here, probably as much or more than any regime in history. But there's a real risk that the WR group, if you don't add much, could just blow apart.

The Hopkins thing just makes too much sense at this point to me to not have some validity, cost wise being the issue.