Cardinals 2018 STL Cardinals Thread - Page 222

**BigRedChief** · 02:21 PM

Opening day lineup

Fowler RF
Pham CF
Carpenter 3B
Ozuna LF
Martinez 1B
Molina C
Dejong SS
Wong 2B
Pitcher

Edit:
Matheny fired 07/14/2018

Opening Day Roster

Spoiler!

**BigRedChief** · 08-27-2018, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDj23

Nice deflection

And moving the goal posts.

**BigRedChief** · 08-27-2018, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAChief

No one here is claiming anything about your little underachievers this year.

You go on a run like this at this time of year and yeah, you start thinking about the possibilities. The Cubs have flaws that if they don't take care of business (as they should) that final series could be relevant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

If you were honest you would realize how stupid you sound thinking the Cubs are in any way shape or form not the premier team of the NL for the forseeable future.

THIS! JD, show me the posts in here where someone says we are a legitimate threat to your division title. All I see is "hope" posts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAChief

I hate to break your bubble, but you guys are far from the dynasty you thought you would have, and if you are honest, that is probably what is chaffing your ass right now.

If I had been him in 2015, I'd been thinking 5 years of owning and threat to go to the WS and win every year. That team was hot and with young talent thanks to tanking and losing 100 games for a few years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

If I'm honest?

Why start now?

Frazod · 08-27-2018, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

If I'm honest?

The Cubs have been to 3 straight NLCS' and are the best team in the NL right now while missing a key part of their rotation, their MVP, and their closer for significant chunks of the season.

If you were honest you would realize how stupid you sound thinking the Cubs are in any way shape or form not the premier team of the NL for the forseeable future.

So why do you keep leaking estrogen all over this thread?

jd1020 · 08-27-2018, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frazod

So why do you keep leaking estrogen all over this thread?

I'm not leaking anything.

People quoted me and I responded.

jd1020 · 08-27-2018, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

THIS! JD, show me the posts in here where someone says we are a legitimate threat to your division title. All I see is "hope" posts.

I posted hope too.

I sincerely hope that the Cardinals FO sees all the excitement over a team full of 1-2 WAR players having unsustainable success and chooses to make them the future while guys like Carpenter say their goodbyes.

jd1020 · 08-27-2018, 10:48 AM

If anything has changed with the season for the Cubs this year in regards to their future is that they should be fully committed to moving on from Russell because of the emergence of David Bote over the last couple years in the minors and continued success in MLB so far.

Ian Happ could (should) probably be traded too, but with Maddon's love for players who can be versatile defensively he'll likely play the Zobrist role after his contract expires at the end of next season.

And if the Cubs really wanted to go all in they could look to move Schwarber and blow past the luxury tax and go after Machado or Harper. Signing Machado would likely mean Bryant goes to the OF so I doubt that happens. And I'm not convinced Theo is ready to trade Schwarber so I doubt either one of those happen.

But a package of Russell + Caratini + ?? should return a decent pitching option.

**BigRedChief** · 08-27-2018, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

If anything has changed with the season for the Cubs this year in regards to their future is that they should be fully committed to moving on from Russell because of the emergence of David Bote over the last couple years in the minors and continued success in MLB so far.

Ian Happ could (should) probably be traded too, but with Maddon's love for players who can be versatile defensively he'll likely play the Zobrist role after his contract expires at the end of next season.

And if the Cubs really wanted to go all in they could look to move Schwarber and blow past the luxury tax and go after Machado or Harper. Signing Machado would likely mean Bryant goes to the OF so I doubt that happens. And I'm not convinced Theo is ready to trade Schwarber so I doubt either one of those happen.

But a package of Russell + Caratini + ?? should return a decent pitching option.

You are focused on this year for the Cardinals, Understandably so. We are not a real threat to your division dominance this year. Next year, that story isn't set yet.

One thing you have ignored with your posts is the value of our young players has jumped up significantly.
Gomber
Gant
Poncedeleon
Hudson
Hicks
Bader
O'Neill
Flaherty

Mikolas this off season will have trade value too

Have all increased their trade value, agree? Expendable trade value put together with our surplus OF and Kelly = A potential great player in 2018.

jd1020 · 08-27-2018, 11:32 AM

How many of those players do you think the Cardinals are actually going to trade?

I don't think anyone is going to be looking to trade for Tyler O'neill. And if they are it wont be at the price you seem to think he is worth. He is fools gold.

Bader wont be going anywhere because he is your CFer.

So which pitchers are you trading to replace the majority of your lineup? Outside of Flaherty you are gonna have to package at least a couple of them just to get in the door in a conversation for a middle of the order bat.

VAChief · 08-27-2018, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

How many of those players do you think the Cardinals are actually going to trade?

I don't think anyone is going to be looking to trade for Tyler O'neill. And if they are it wont be at the price you seem to think he is worth. He is fools gold.

Bader wont be going anywhere because he is your CFer.

So which pitchers are you trading to replace the majority of your lineup? Outside of Flaherty you are gonna have to package at least a couple of them just to get in the door in a conversation for a middle of the order bat.

You never know for sure on prospects until you get a significant look. It's not like ONeill was some C prospect who hit a few lucky dongs when called up. He has been a top 100 prospect for the last couple of years. Yes, he has a high strikeout percentage, although his plate discipline show signs of adjustment. Hitting a home run every 14 at bats and slugging well over .500 is encouraging. He needs to continue to improve with plate discipline, but his power potential is not a fluke.

What was Baez strikeout percentage in his first partial year when they brought him up. Bueller, Bueller, anyone? 40% and his OPS was around .550 not .850. Totally different players, but Baez made the adjustment to more tolerable levels. We won't know about ONeill until we see more.

Time will tell. One thing is for sure, your setting yourself up for a shit ton of crow if you are wrong.

VAChief · 08-27-2018, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

I'm not leaking anything.

People quoted me and I responded.

People quoted you and you acted like it was no big deal you were wrong in your assessment. It wasn't just attributable to losing teams. You seem threatened by simple facts.

VAChief · 08-27-2018, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

If I'm honest?

The Cubs have been to 3 straight NLCS' and are the best team in the NL right now while missing a key part of their rotation, their MVP, and their closer for significant chunks of the season.

If you were honest you would realize how stupid you sound thinking the Cubs are in any way shape or form not the premier team of the NL for the forseeable future.

No one here is suggesting the cubs aren't still the team to beat. The Dodgers were the heavy favorites coming in this year and it looks like they will come up short, so that leaves the baby bears.

The Cards are having fun. Who knows if the wave will last long enough this season, but you are short selling their near term potential. You want to believe that ONeill will be the new Grichuk etc. However we don't know enough to say for sure now what is there.

All we do know is that they are winning at an astonishing clip for over a month now.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 08-27-2018, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

How many of those players do you think the Cardinals are actually going to trade?

I don't think anyone is going to be looking to trade for Tyler O'neill. And if they are it wont be at the price you seem to think he is worth. He is fools gold.

Bader wont be going anywhere because he is your CFer.

So which pitchers are you trading to replace the majority of your lineup? Outside of Flaherty you are gonna have to package at least a couple of them just to get in the door in a conversation for a middle of the order bat.

When you say O'Neill is fool's gold, do you mean Yu Darvish fools gold or Addison Russell fool's gold?

jd1020 · 08-27-2018, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

When you say O'Neill is fool's gold, do you mean Yu Darvish fools gold or Addison Russell fool's gold?

You mean Addison Russell the elite defender who's been dealing with a shoulder and finger this year? You know the same thing you want to excuse Paul DeJong for minus the shoulder.

How much has Paul DeJong's OPS dropped for the month since we last talked? 70 points?

VAChief · 08-27-2018, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

How much has Paul DeJong's OPS dropped for the month since we last talked? 70 points?

.738 is DeJong's current OPS or the same as Russell's best year. DeJong had a broken hand hardly the same as a finger. I don't think he will be the .857 OPS guy he was last year, but I think he can be an adequate defender, 20 homer, 80 rbi guy, hitting 6th or 7th, probably in that above average .780 to .800 range once he completely gets healthy. We have 4 years of sub .700 and just above OPS history to view Russell offensively. He is a fine defender, and there is nothing wrong with going with a defensive glove at short, but let's not be silly and think that was how he was hyped.

jd1020 · 08-27-2018, 01:51 PM

Russell was never hyped as a hitter. Ever.

He has always been a guy that has been labeled as "if" at the plate with the assumption that maturing will bring his bat up to speed. Even in his "good" offensive year he was just a 94 wRC+ hitter. That's only 8 points higher than his current numbers. Now you could credit the decline in power this year to his shoulder and finger because it was clearly bothering him because just above every swing he took his lead hand was flying off the bat.

Regardless, I would be very surprised to see him on the Cubs next year. Theo has already moved past protecting Russell in trade rumors and has actively thrown his name out, according to rumors from insiders and anonymous exec's.

01-02-2018, 05:51 PM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $2869627 VARSITY	2018 STL Cardinals Thread Opening day lineup Fowler RF Pham CF Carpenter 3B Ozuna LF Martinez 1B Molina C Dejong SS Wong 2B Pitcher Edit: Matheny fired 07/14/2018 Opening Day Roster Spoiler! St. Louis has opted to carry 12 position players and 13 pitchers to begin the new season, with a four-man bench and eight-man bullpen. Outfielders: Dexter Fowler Tommy Pham Marcell Ozuna Infielders: Matt Carpenter Paul DeJong Kolten Wong Catchers: Yadier Molina Francisco Pena Utility: Jose Martinez Greg Garcia Yairo Munoz Jedd Gyrko Starters: Carlos Martinez Michael Wacha Luke Weaver Miles Mikolas Jack Flaherty Relievers: Dominic Leone Tyler Lyons Bud Norris Brett Cecil Sam Tuivailala Matt Bowman Jordan Hicks Mike Mayers On the DL: Adam Wainwright Luke Gregerson Last edited by BigRedChief; 07-17-2018 at 02:21 PM..
Posts: 79,212

08-27-2018, 10:48 AM	#3321
jd1020 In Search of a Life Join Date: Nov 2010 Casino cash: $7702645	If anything has changed with the season for the Cubs this year in regards to their future is that they should be fully committed to moving on from Russell because of the emergence of David Bote over the last couple years in the minors and continued success in MLB so far. Ian Happ could (should) probably be traded too, but with Maddon's love for players who can be versatile defensively he'll likely play the Zobrist role after his contract expires at the end of next season. And if the Cubs really wanted to go all in they could look to move Schwarber and blow past the luxury tax and go after Machado or Harper. Signing Machado would likely mean Bryant goes to the OF so I doubt that happens. And I'm not convinced Theo is ready to trade Schwarber so I doubt either one of those happen. But a package of Russell + Caratini + ?? should return a decent pitching option.
Posts: 24,336

08-27-2018, 11:32 AM	#3323
jd1020 In Search of a Life Join Date: Nov 2010 Casino cash: $7702645	How many of those players do you think the Cardinals are actually going to trade? I don't think anyone is going to be looking to trade for Tyler O'neill. And if they are it wont be at the price you seem to think he is worth. He is fools gold. Bader wont be going anywhere because he is your CFer. So which pitchers are you trading to replace the majority of your lineup? Outside of Flaherty you are gonna have to package at least a couple of them just to get in the door in a conversation for a middle of the order bat.
Posts: 24,336

08-27-2018, 01:51 PM	#3330
jd1020 In Search of a Life Join Date: Nov 2010 Casino cash: $7702645	Russell was never hyped as a hitter. Ever. He has always been a guy that has been labeled as "if" at the plate with the assumption that maturing will bring his bat up to speed. Even in his "good" offensive year he was just a 94 wRC+ hitter. That's only 8 points higher than his current numbers. Now you could credit the decline in power this year to his shoulder and finger because it was clearly bothering him because just above every swing he took his lead hand was flying off the bat. Regardless, I would be very surprised to see him on the Cubs next year. Theo has already moved past protecting Russell in trade rumors and has actively thrown his name out, according to rumors from insiders and anonymous exec's.
Posts: 24,336