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Old 06-27-2016, 11:23 AM  
DaFace DaFace is offline
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Personal finance and investing megathread extravaganza

I know lewdog (and maybe others) have mentioned the desire to have a place to chat about personal finance stuff. We'll see if there's enough interest to keep this going in the long-term, but at least for now, here's a place to chat about whatever personal finance topics come up.



If you're just getting started thinking about saving and don't know where to begin, this flow chart can help. Ask for advice in the thread for more help!

Last edited by DaFace; 01-24-2018 at 03:49 PM..
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Old 08-28-2018, 07:28 PM   #2296
DaFace DaFace is offline
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Can we not let R8ers **** up an otherwise really good thread? Kthxbye.
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Old 08-28-2018, 07:51 PM   #2297
SAUTO SAUTO is offline
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Originally Posted by eDave View Post
That's SAUTO walking around money.
. Most days.


I invested in 5 vehicles this week.

2001 Silverado 4x4 128 k. Needs brake lines, nice truck brand new tires.
2003 lesabre 100k needs a 250 dollar trans. Couple hours to replace.
2008 Durango limited 5.7 hemi. Needs a fricking radiator...
2009 4x4 Silverado that needs a bedside and bumper. 175k.
2005 equinox that needs head gaskets. 4hours labor and 200 bucks in parts.

I have 2950.00 in all of them.

The time to buy is when you see it and you make your money when you buy. I don't have stocks. I hustle
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Old 08-28-2018, 08:05 PM   #2298
lewdog lewdog is offline
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Originally Posted by SAUTO View Post
. Most days.


I invested in 5 vehicles this week.

2001 Silverado 4x4 128 k. Needs brake lines, nice truck brand new tires.
2003 lesabre 100k needs a 250 dollar trans. Couple hours to replace.
2008 Durango limited 5.7 hemi. Needs a fricking radiator...
2009 4x4 Silverado that needs a bedside and bumper. 175k.
2005 equinox that needs head gaskets. 4hours labor and 200 bucks in parts.

I have 2950.00 in all of them.

The time to buy is when you see it and you make your money when you buy. I don't have stocks. I hustle
I bought some Ford stock last month.

You're doing better than me.

Keep hustling man. You've got your shit together.
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Old 08-28-2018, 09:10 PM   #2299
Buehler445 Buehler445 is offline
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Can we not let R8ers **** up an otherwise really good thread? Kthxbye.
Seconded.
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Old 08-29-2018, 12:55 AM   #2300
DRU DRU is offline
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Looks like its based on whole life insurance. Uhh, no thanks. Whole (or permanent) life insurance is pretty expensive as an investment vehicle, with a comparatively lousy rate of return. If you're a higher income earner and have maxed out your 401(k), IRAs, etc., and/or have some unique reason to have whole life, then sure, whatever, but for the vast majority of people, I wouldn't bother with it. Term insurance is substantially cheaper.

All that said, I do have a modest amount of whole life, which I got back in like 2000. Now, about 18 years later, the cash value of the policy equals the amount I have paid in premiums. Now, there was the peace of mind of having life insurance in case something happened to me years ago as well, of course, but still, that's a lousy return where the stock market since 2000 is up about a bazillion percent.

I would have been MUCH better if I took like X% of that whole life premium and put it into term insurance, fixed for 20 years, so I would have the same death benefit as with the whole life, and put the rest of it into index mutual funds or something.
The type of plan you got (and most people know of with whole life) is unfortunately not very efficient. The type of policy used with this system is one designed to maximize cash value. For example, My policy had cash value equal to what I paid in premiums in year 4. Every bit of what I put in each year now goes 100% into cash, which earns 5% (contractually guaranteed) uninterrupted compound interest + a dividend that has been paid for over 100 years.

It grows tax free, it comes out tax free any time I want throughout my life, and I can use it on anything I want with no limitations, and it passes on to beneficiaries tax free.

I can be pulled out and used for investments that will earn greater returns while at the same time continuing to earn that 5% + dividend inside the policy. The dollars are working for me in two places at the same time. The policy return is just a nice little tail wind behind any other investment I make with it.

Again, what you said about whole life is the common misunderstanding about it. That design of policy is indeed not good. Properly designed, it's an extremely valuable tool.

No, I'm not an insurance salesman. I'm just somebody who had lots of questions about why Dave Ramsey and others say whole life is so horrible, and others say a "properly designed" policy is so valuable. I studied it a long time, I figured it all out, and it's true. These things rock. I now have 2 policies on myself and one on my wife. I'm able to use the cash I put into them just days after opening them, and use the money while earning interest on it in savings at the same time.

State Farm, All State, American Family, etc. can't do policies like this. It's only available from mutual companies like MassMutual, Penn Mutual, Northwestern Mutual, etc. Many of their reps don't know about it either, or don't like to offer it because the high cash value design eliminates 90% of their commission (which is another area whole life gets a bad rep and this type of policy avoids).

It really is worth a further look. Don't take it from me, but don't let "whole life" scare you away. Study the concept, study the math, and study how it will guarantee you to reach the huge compounded gains you see on compound interest charts since you never have to use your actual money to buy stuff. Your money sits there untouched, earning interest the whole time, and turns into tax free income whenever you want to start using it that way.

Until then, you can use it for cars, taxes, vacations, holidays, weddings, college, etc. And of course, cash flowing investments that are super-charged by the extra return you get from the policy. You'll never have limitations on how much you can put in, and you'll never have limitations on how much you can take out, when you can take it out, or what you can use it for. It grows tax free and comes out tax free. There's really nothing else like it, but people get scared away as soon as they see "whole life". It's a shame.

The death benefit is secondary to a design like this, but with the maximized cash value buying up paid up additions every year you end up with a massive death benefit, which again gets paid down to your family tax free. This could go into a trust that could pay premiums on similar policies for everybody else in the family, and now you are the Rothschilds. It can go on forever, and the "family bank" can spit out cash like crazy year in and year out forever.

Last edited by DRU; 08-29-2018 at 01:01 AM..
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Old 08-29-2018, 10:13 AM   #2301
R8RFAN R8RFAN is offline
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Originally Posted by DaFace View Post
Can we not let R8ers **** up an otherwise really good thread? Kthxbye.
sorry I hit too close to home with that broke dick comment, I sorry
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Old 08-29-2018, 12:11 PM   #2302
Buehler445 Buehler445 is offline
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sorry I hit too close to home with that broke dick comment, I sorry
Dude. Give it a rest.
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Old 08-29-2018, 02:24 PM   #2303
DenverChief DenverChief is offline
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Looks like its based on whole life insurance. Uhh, no thanks. Whole (or permanent) life insurance is pretty expensive as an investment vehicle, with a comparatively lousy rate of return. If you're a higher income earner and have maxed out your 401(k), IRAs, etc., and/or have some unique reason to have whole life, then sure, whatever, but for the vast majority of people, I wouldn't bother with it. Term insurance is substantially cheaper.

All that said, I do have a modest amount of whole life, which I got back in like 2000. Now, about 18 years later, the cash value of the policy equals the amount I have paid in premiums. Now, there was the peace of mind of having life insurance in case something happened to me years ago as well, of course, but still, that's a lousy return where the stock market since 2000 is up about a bazillion percent.

I would have been MUCH better if I took like X% of that whole life premium and put it into term insurance, fixed for 20 years, so I would have the same death benefit as with the whole life, and put the rest of it into index mutual funds or something.
Really? I pay ~$30.00/quarter for $180,000 policy on myself and another ~$10.00/quarter for an $80,000 policy on my spouse. I over pay into the policy by $30/each ($60/$40 per quarter) with a guaranteed minimum 3% return on my cash value. Every 4 years that is re-evaluated if the rate is higher than 3% that is effective for the next 4 years. If it is lower, then 3% is the minimum. IDK about you but that seems pretty damn cheap for a whole life policy with some pretty good guaranteed return or better. Cash out the policy tax free at retirement or take a loan out at anytime.

I also have a term life policy thru my job for about $12/month.

Last edited by DenverChief; 08-29-2018 at 02:34 PM..
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Old 08-29-2018, 02:32 PM   #2304
eDave eDave is offline
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Sitting in that much cash is pretty dumb.

Absolutely no reason to do that. Have your money make more money.
Eh. Most of us can withdraw that kind of scratch and post a pic. And we won't have to empty our accounts to do it.
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Old 08-29-2018, 02:35 PM   #2305
O.city O.city is offline
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Originally Posted by lewdog View Post
Sitting in that much cash is pretty dumb.

Absolutely no reason to do that. Have your money make more money.
I always keep about 10k in cash on hand just in case something crazy happens.

Ie, we had some work done on the house we just bought, offered the guy cash and got a 15%discount.

I know it's not the best bet, but I have my investments as well.
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Old 08-29-2018, 02:40 PM   #2306
displacedinMN displacedinMN is offline
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I probably don't fully understand your options, but if you've got money in an IRA earning 1.5 percent, presumably it's some sort of CD or something. If that's true, don't put any more money into that and pick pretty much any other option rather than sitting on your toilet holding it in cash.
I wanted to dump it in my public retirement account. They won't let me do that. So now I will talk to my 403b. That has much better yield than the IRA.
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Old 08-29-2018, 02:48 PM   #2307
DaFace DaFace is offline
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Really? I pay ~$30.00/quarter for $180,000 policy on myself and another ~$10.00/quarter for an $80,000 policy on my spouse. I over pay into the policy by $30/each ($60/$40 per quarter) with a guaranteed minimum 3% return on my cash value. Every 4 years that is re-evaluated if the rate is higher than 3% that is effective for the next 4 years. If it is lower, then 3% is the minimum. IDK about you but that seems pretty damn cheap for a whole life policy with some pretty good guaranteed return or better. Cash out the policy tax free at retirement or take a loan out at anytime.

I also have a term life policy thru my job for about $12/month.
I guess I'd have to see the details on your policies (which I don't care enough to do), but something about this doesn't seem right. $175k of whole life coverage should be more on the scale of $50/month. Here's a calculator just to play with the numbers.

https://smartasset.com/life-insuranc...surance-quotes
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Old 08-29-2018, 04:27 PM   #2308
DenverChief DenverChief is offline
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I guess I'd have to see the details on your policies (which I don't care enough to do), but something about this doesn't seem right. $175k of whole life coverage should be more on the scale of $50/month. Here's a calculator just to play with the numbers.

https://smartasset.com/life-insuranc...surance-quotes
Check that. It's 120k/80k and the payments are $130/$90 (60 over on each) so 70/30 for just the policy, a quarter.
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Old 08-29-2018, 04:54 PM   #2309
lewdog lewdog is offline
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R8ers is retired with a few hundred thousand dollars and thinks he’s rich.

Lulz
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Old 08-29-2018, 05:18 PM   #2310
R8RFAN R8RFAN is offline
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R8ers is retired with a few hundred thousand dollars and thinks he’s rich.

Lulz
Wrong, I am not retired and have several hundred thousand dollars , few is 3 several is less than 10
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