can we please stop talking about time of possession? Please?

[Buehler445]

Everyone is talking about time of possession. That is mind bogglingly stupid. Winning is about offensive and defensive efficiency. Scores and stops. It has nothing at all to do with time. If Mahomes scores in one play every possession that’s really efficient but won’t take up any time. Moreover if we take a 12 minute drive and fumble at the 2, that isn’t going to win any games but by god we’ll win the time of possession.

****ing pussies like Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack of **** Edwards talk about time of possession. Winners talk about scores and stops.

[kcclone]

Originally Posted by Beef Supreme

Why the **** would you think starting a thread about time of possession is gonna stop people from talking about it?

Yes. Then he proceeded to bump said thread three weeks later to tell people not to talk about it again.

He’s unglued and is arguing just to argue.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Beef Supreme

Why the **** would you think starting a thread about time of possession is gonna stop people from talking about it?

Originally Posted by kcclone

Yes. Then he proceeded to bump said thread three weeks later to tell people not to talk about it again.

He’s unglued and is arguing just to argue.

Because that’s ALL mother****ers, including our goddamned head coach were talking about after Houston. So I pointed out that focusing on TOP is dumb. Dudes freaked out and put me on blast.

Now there is a game where we won TOP by 7 minutes and lost. Now none of those dudes that had me on blast are to be found.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Originally Posted by kcclone

Yes. Then he proceeded to bump said thread three weeks later to tell people not to talk about it again.

He’s unglued and is arguing just to argue.

Try plowing a god damn corn field and see if you don't come unglued!!!!!

[BWillie]

Originally Posted by Titty Meat

This team needs to play more TOP the defense is awful

With such a great offense we should try to maximize the amount of possessions Mahomes sees every game. We should focus on a ball hawking forcing turnover type defense so that we can try to get the ball back as much as possible - sometimes at the expense of giving up big plays.

Think Marcus Peters style corners who look to get picks but aren't cover corners. Terrell Suggs & Von Miller types to swipe at the ball and force fumbles.

[scho63]

TOP is a MAJOR factor in games. You can't have a weak defense be on the field for 40 minutes of a 60 minute game and expect them to perform in crunch time in a close game. You're just wearing them down.

[lcarus]

Originally Posted by BWillie

With such a great offense we should try to maximize the amount of possessions Mahomes sees every game. We should focus on a ball hawking forcing turnover type defense so that we can try to get the ball back as much as possible - sometimes at the expense of giving up big plays.

Think Marcus Peters style corners who look to get picks but aren't cover corners. Terrell Suggs & Von Miller types to swipe at the ball and force fumbles.

I just wish we could stop the run. That's all. If we can stop the run, teams will be forced to pass and then it becomes our passing offense vs theirs. I like our chances at that point. It also stops the whole vagina Herm style offense of "we're gonna run the ball 3 yards at a time and try to get 10 minute scoring drives to limit your possessions because we know you're better than us".

[bevischief]

Originally Posted by rabblerouser

Well, when we win, maybe we'll be able to talk about scores and stops. Until then, it's time of possession.

This.

[loochy]

Originally Posted by scho63

TOP is a MAJOR factor in games. You can't have a weak defense be on the field for 40 minutes of a 60 minute game and expect them to perform in crunch time in a close game. You're just wearing them down.

If they could get stops they wouldn't be on the field for 40 minutes.

[Titty Meat]

Originally Posted by BWillie

With such a great offense we should try to maximize the amount of possessions Mahomes sees every game. We should focus on a ball hawking forcing turnover type defense so that we can try to get the ball back as much as possible - sometimes at the expense of giving up big plays.

Think Marcus Peters style corners who look to get picks but aren't cover corners. Terrell Suggs & Von Miller types to swipe at the ball and force fumbles.

We try that and it doesnt work anymore.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by BWillie

With such a great offense we should try to maximize the amount of possessions Mahomes sees every game. We should focus on a ball hawking forcing turnover type defense so that we can try to get the ball back as much as possible - sometimes at the expense of giving up big plays.

Think Marcus Peters style corners who look to get picks but aren't cover corners. Terrell Suggs & Von Miller types to swipe at the ball and force fumbles.

Did that yesterday. Chiefs had 11 possessions, Titans 10. Chiefs scored on 8. Titans only 4.

Chiefs D forced a fumble/recovery on the Titans first possession. On their second-to-last possession the Chiefs D forced a turn-over on downs. Chiefs D forced four punts.

Chiefs offense didn't score enough TDs. Because Pat over-threw Kelce, Hill and Watkins.

Time for a new narrative.

[Titty Meat]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Did that yesterday. Chiefs had 11 possessions, Titans 10. Chiefs scored on 8. Titans only 4.

Chiefs D forced a fumble/recovery on the Titans first possession. On their second-to-last possession the Chiefs D forced a turn-over on downs. Chiefs D forced four punts.

Chiefs offense didn't score enough TDs. Because Pat over-threw Kelce, Hill and Watkins.

Time for a new narrative.

How many possessions in a row did we come away with points in the 2nd half? When you score 32 points you should win. Your problem isnt the offense.

[IUsedToBeATightEnd]

Originally Posted by Giant Octopodes

Yes, that is correct. Looking at just raw production, and ignoring the circumstances which led to that production, is short-sighted. And you say excuses, I say reasons, but let's not argue over semantics. I am indeed arguing you should look at specific reasons why you might have poor production, instead of just looking at high level overviews. I think it is more productive and more likely to result in success, especially as there is indeed a correlation, likely for the reasons I previously elaborated upon.

Again I'm not saying getting points is a bad thing. At all. I'm simply saying that historically, demonstrably, defenses perform better when they have to defend for 20 minutes than when they have to defend for 40. Part of that is on the defense, in getting stops and getting off the field, while part of that is on the offense, in keeping extended drives alive. Both are the responsibility of the head coach, which is probably why Reid said what he said.

You indicated they need to get points and get stops. I'd argue that points weren't the issue there. I'd argue that 24 points is good enough to beat the majority of teams in the NFL, and it was giving up 31 points which ultimately led to the defeat. If you want fewer points scored, you need greater defensive drive efficiency. If you want greater defensive drive efficiency, they need to be less tired, so you need to increase offensive time of possession, however you can.

That might not have anything to do with getting points offensively, and might have more to do with incorporating more run plays and short yardage plays to make the same scoring drive take 5 minutes instead of 2. The Chiefs had only 2 drives of greater than 4 minutes, and only 1 which was 10 plays or more. They averaged 4.9 plays per drive, and averaged almost exactly 2 minutes per drive. The Texans had 7 drives of 4 minutes or greater, and 6 drives of 10 or more plays. This is indeed an issue which contributed (though of course it was not the sole cause) to the Texans winning. To say it's a garbage stat which should be ignored is indeed as previously stated short sighted.

I agree with the Topic starter that TOP is irrelevant.
What really matters is being able to run the ball consistently, 3-4 yds gain per carry, on 10 minutes drives.
When we do that I'm sure no one will worry about TOP no longer LOL.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

The definition of a possession is exactly why TOP is ****ing reeruned.

The fumble by Williams had a real impact on the game because it took away the potential for a score by us (essentially gave them a stop) AND they scored.

That is the shit Reid should be working on, not ****ing Time of Possession.

**** stats, scores and stops.

That's the ****ing story.

So now you want to change the definition of possession? Just to suit your narrative? Even though your team can't "possess" the ball on defense? That only the OFFENSE can possess the ball?


reeruned idea.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

So now you want to change the definition of possession? Just to suit your narrative? Even though your team can't "possess" the ball on defense? That only the OFFENSE can possess the ball?


reeruned idea.

I don't have a goddamned narrative. You are trying to make stats where there aren't any. All I care about is what wins games, and Time of Possession does not. I couldn't give a flying **** if a fumble return for TD counts as a possession, because it sure as **** counts on the scoreboard and therefor should be where are coaches are applying their focus.

See: Chiefs @ Titans 11/10/19

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Titty Meat

How many possessions in a row did we come away with points in the 2nd half? When you score 32 points you should win. Your problem isnt the offense.

Four.

TD, FG, TD, FG, botched snap for FG, blocked FG.

I'm not saying the offense is the problem. I'm also not saying the defense played great, because obviously, they didn't.

What I am saying is that if your going to micro-analyze the defense or blame them for every little thing, at least use the same lens for the offense. The offense wasn't perfect either. They failed to execute drives that should've resulted in TDs at least twice. If they converted just one of those for a TD we aren't having this conversation.

And the fact is that last year this offense scored more TDs than FGs most of the time. This year it's been different. There are plenty of reasons for this, but no one is going to admit most of that either because they're ignorant, or they want to be willingly obtuse so they can continue to support their narrative.