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Old 08-20-2019, 02:43 PM  
Mecca Mecca is offline
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Spiderman is [no longer] out of the MCU
https://deadline.com/2019/08/kevin-f...er-1202672545/

It was fun while it lasted, but Sony once again is stupid and has cancelled this deal. Might as well call it Sony hates money.
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Old 08-20-2019, 04:00 PM   #16
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This version of Spider Man won't make much sense if the MCU components are cut out. I guess you can retcon Uncle Ben as his primary motivator/mentor but we've already spent 5 movies setting up Tony Stark as that figure. Hell, all of his equipment is Stark based tech. This is going to be weird, and Sony having to write their way out of it doesn't seem feasible given their track record.
I'd be curious to know how the agreements even work. Can they even mention the name "Tony Stark" without Disney's approval? If not, that's gonna be...problematic.
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Old 08-20-2019, 04:06 PM   #17
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Let’s talk about something most folks won’t talk about: Endgame wasn’t very good.

It just felt prolonged and boring. I don’t know that I would rank it a top 3 MCU movie
What the **** are you smoking? Endgame was great.
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Old 08-20-2019, 04:12 PM   #18
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I mean...maybe?

I don't think Phase 4 is going to be the license to print money that the originals were. They will have audiences, for sure - but they'll be smaller. And what will really hurt them are the misses, presuming there are some.

Thor 2, Iron Man 3 and Age of Ultron were just utter shite. But the damage was minimal to non-existent - the next movie came out and the machine just kept churning. The intertia of the MCU was unstoppable.

I don't know that I see that in Phase 4. There's a lot of change here and any stumble could continue to cast ripples.

Maybe you're right and Sony should just do what it takes to get this done, but I definitely think we've seen Peak MCU and there's not far to go but down from here. Perhaps Sony isn't quite so willing to go blindly forward with that sort of ship.
I don't think it's going to be an issue. Thor is still around, and Ragnarok netted over 800 million on a budget under 200. Captain Marvel was over 1.1 billion. Black Panther was over 1.25 billion. Even Ant Man and the Wasp was over 600 million, as was the first Doctor Strange. Every single one of those is more than any DC movie has ever made and they're all part of whatever team up is coming.

I don't know how stuff like The Eternals and Shang-Chi are going to do, but I'd be surprised if they don't find some way to get people in theaters.

And I don't think it's going to hurt them at all to have shows on Disney+ either.

And then there's the X-Men and Fantastic Four.

Twenty years ago who would've thought the MCU would be what it is now? And that was done primarily without Spider-Man. I wouldn't bet against them at this point.
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Old 08-20-2019, 04:15 PM   #19
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They got the Guardians of the Galaxy way more popular than I would've thought possible. They'll be fine.
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Old 08-20-2019, 04:39 PM   #20
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Interesting. Sounds like Sony is going to try and press on with the same creative team. Tom Holland and director Watts.

I’ll bet they shoehorn him into the Venom franchise
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Old 08-20-2019, 04:50 PM   #21
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Let’s talk about something most folks won’t talk about: Endgame wasn’t very good.

It just felt prolonged and boring. I don’t know that I would rank it a top 3 MCU movie
Even if what you said was true, which it isn't, this isn't really an indictment of anything. In a series with Iron Man, The Winter Soldier, Infinity War, Guardians of the Galaxy and Thor Ragnarok, some really, really good movies are being left out of the top 3.
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Old 08-20-2019, 04:55 PM   #22
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But Marvel's not making a trivial ask here.

They're asking for ten times the profits of their original agreement; they were getting 5% and now they want 50%. That's not nothing.

From a strictly dollars and cents standpoint, Marvel has to be hugely responsible for the profits here to make this work. Moreover, nothing says Sony couldn't go back if momentum dries up.

For instance, lets say they agree with Marvel and Feige directs and the next Spiderman makes $1B in gross - well generally speaking you're talking in the 40-45% range in terms of how much of the gross actually gets back to the studios after theaters, etc... are paid. So lets just say $425 million back to the studio.

now we have a $160 million budget. Let's chip in another $100 million for marketing costs (which seems conservative but we'll stand there). Now we're down to $165 million in profits and that's BEFORE we get to additional incidentals like profit cuts for key figures in production. Then you add back in rentals, on demand, etc... but you can't include merchandising because Sony already lost that.

Now this mostly becomes a wild-ass guess at this point but let's say that there's a pool of roughly $300 million in profit available to Sony and Marvel after all is said and done there. Everyone's paid and all the revenue streams have paid roughly what they're gonna pay - that seem fair? If not, why not?

Let's work from that - Marvel wants $150 million of it under the new agreement. Leaving $150 million behind for Sony.

Sony can easily coast on the momentum of 'Into the Spiderverse' (which kicked ass without Marvel's help) and make at least a couple of movies with profits in excess of the $150 million they'd end up with after Marvel's cut. And that's all they need to do - coast. They can make at least one of them and if it's good, they've make another one. And if it's a success, another.

Venom got great returns and made a ton of money without Feige and the MCU. Sony can do that with Spiderman, especially now that they have momentum on their side. And they don't have to be as successful as they would've been - just 51% as successful. If so, they'll be money ahead. And if (when?) the momentum stalls - you go back to Marvel and discuss another merger.

But Sony's gambling on themselves a bit and that's not a terrible idea. They've shown some signs that they may not suck at this right now.
Marvel can also kill off spiderman again. Which I heard is happening. Stop games from being made and action figures. Let Sony kill off profits themselves like they did with Garfield. Marvel has shown they will play the long game.

Hopefully they compromise.

Wonder if the mcu cod create a new character. Now that it is known who Spidey is. He needs. New identity. Then start right after far from home with that.
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Old 08-20-2019, 04:57 PM   #23
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I don't think it's going to be an issue. Thor is still around, and Ragnarok netted over 800 million on a budget under 200. Captain Marvel was over 1.1 billion. Black Panther was over 1.25 billion. Even Ant Man and the Wasp was over 600 million, as was the first Doctor Strange. Every single one of those is more than any DC movie has ever made and they're all part of whatever team up is coming.

I don't know how stuff like The Eternals and Shang-Chi are going to do, but I'd be surprised if they don't find some way to get people in theaters.

And I don't think it's going to hurt them at all to have shows on Disney+ either.

And then there's the X-Men and Fantastic Four.

Twenty years ago who would've thought the MCU would be what it is now? And that was done primarily without Spider-Man. I wouldn't bet against them at this point.
Shangchi will make 2 billion in Asia if done correctly.
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Old 08-20-2019, 05:47 PM   #24
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There is still time for them to re-negotiate but this leak hurts.
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Old 08-20-2019, 06:01 PM   #25
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There is still time for them to re-negotiate but this leak hurts.
If anything I think it'll have the opposite effect. Now that the fans know they might feel the pressure to get a deal done.
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Old 08-20-2019, 07:04 PM   #26
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Old 08-20-2019, 07:41 PM   #27
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Disney is evil. Sony needs to stand up to them and say no. Someone has to. Also Spiderverse had nothing to do with Disney.
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Old 08-20-2019, 09:34 PM   #28
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Interesting. Sounds like Sony is going to try and press on with the same creative team. Tom Holland and director Watts.

I’ll bet they shoehorn him into the Venom franchise
That's why they're doing this, they probably made a crazy offer to Disney for a new deal, one they knew Disney wouldn't accept and they were going to plan to bring Spider-man into Venom 2 at the end somehow to setup a must have third film even if the second one sucks.
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Old 08-20-2019, 10:10 PM   #29
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This feels over.

@Borys_Kit: EXCLUSIVE: SPIDER-MAN divorce goes up a level as Sony responds, says it's Disney's decision to end partnership. "We are disappointed." https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...r_breakingnews
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Old 08-20-2019, 10:17 PM   #30
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Would love to see Sony succeed with this move, even know I know they will fall flat on their faces.

I'm sick of Disney ruling the world.
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