Okay, so what *is* your plan for the 2023 passrush?

[Direckshun]

Alright, it's bleeding into multiple threads, so let's forge a master thread to control all others, and into this thread we will pour our cruelty, our malice, and our will to dominate all life. Truly a thread to rule them all.

You guys shat on me when I wanted to pour two 1sts into Brian Burns. You guys shat on me when I wanted to pour two 1sts into Josh Allen. And just for fun a couple of you guys were jerks when I wanted to go sign Bradley Chubb this coming offseason.

Just a bunch of meanies.

So what is your plan, exactly? This team needs a front four that can get pressure, Karlaftis isn't developing with the speed we'd like, and Jones is the only guy who can get to the QB.

What's your plan?

Here's the free agent passrushers this coming offseason. And the Chiefs do have 11 draft picks, but only one 1st, one 2nd, and one 3rd.

Are you going to burn a 1st? You're probably going to need that 1st (plus additional ammo) to get the offensive tackle you're simultaneously complaining we need to replace Brown at LT. If you take the 1st for DL, you're tagging and/or extending Brown, and you should say so.

I assume you're cutting Frank Clark, so the Chiefs will have about $50m to play with, but this is your 2023 depth chart right now:

DE: Danna, Herring
DT: Jones,
DT:
DE: Karlaftis, Kaindoh

That's it, suckers. You're probably going to need to add two DEs, and three DTs, minimum.

Current Chiefs who will be RFA: Wharton

Current Chiefs who will be FA: Saunders, Nnadi, Dunlap, Stallworth, Shelton, Azur Kamara

So what's your plan? kccrow's? His top three DEs are Karlaftis, Mike Danna, and Dawuane Smoot. I'm underwhelmed and ashamed.

Whatever your plan is, be prepared for me to hate it. I just hate it already.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Of all the DLineman I could see the Chiefs making a very serious play for, Payne is #1 on the list if he's available. He's a hell of a lot like Jarran Reed and he's only 26.
That said, I fully expect Washington to franchise him this year as he's the only guy on their FA list worth doing it for.

Possible for sure. I think they are at the point where they need to pick who they’re committing to, and I think Payne is third in line.

Tag and trades may be in play. Maybe even a tag and trade swap…

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Given the fact that Hughes declined to be moved at the deadline and the reports were that he chose to be closer to home and that's why he signed with Houston, I wonder if we DIDN'T reach out to him.

Frankly, it's not the direction I'd have preferred anyway. Find a young vet. I really liked the idea of an RFA offer to Dorance Armstrong, for instance. We've mentioned guys like Key and Green ad nauseum. Barnett was a guy I really liked the idea of.

Give me a toolsy 26 yr old who's underperformed a little and is looking for a pillow contract for a bounce-back. Clelin Ferrell was a previous suggestion - good call. Arden Key is likely to be a FA again. Lorenzo Carter is going to be cheap, IMO and he has great tools. I really like that idea. Rasheem Green is likely to be a FA again. Could Malik Reed be a guy who's used as a situational rusher in a strict LEO sort of role? LJ Collier is a TEXTBOOK Veachlclamation Project. Ben Banogu was really interesting coming into the draft but really hasn't done shit; he wouldn't cost a thing and is worth a look, IMO.

Zach Allen has played awfully well so he's probably priced himself into 'real' player money, but if he falls through the first wave, I'd absolutely be interested in giving him Derek Barnett's deal and I think he'd be worth it and then some.

And I'm sure there are a half dozen or more that I've missed. But go find a 25-26 yr old kid coming off his rookie deal who hasn't quite gained a footing with his present team but has some stand-out attributes to put to use as a dedicated rush specialist. And as Duncan suggested, do the same at DT; someone like Dre'Mont Jones would be interesting (but he's probably gonna get a real nice deal).

All of this I reckon. There's not much elite coming up at DE in FA but lots of young and OK and I can't imagine all will break the bank. I reckon you could pick one up without breaking the bank and a good DT and still draft for both positions. Lots of ways to make this DL better

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Given the fact that Hughes declined to be moved at the deadline and the reports were that he chose to be closer to home and that's why he signed with Houston, I wonder if we DIDN'T reach out to him.

Frankly, it's not the direction I'd have preferred anyway. Find a young vet. I really liked the idea of an RFA offer to Dorance Armstrong, for instance. We've mentioned guys like Key and Green ad nauseum. Barnett was a guy I really liked the idea of.

Give me a toolsy 26 yr old who's underperformed a little and is looking for a pillow contract for a bounce-back. Clelin Ferrell was a previous suggestion - good call. Arden Key is likely to be a FA again. Lorenzo Carter is going to be cheap, IMO and he has great tools. I really like that idea. Rasheem Green is likely to be a FA again. Could Malik Reed be a guy who's used as a situational rusher in a strict LEO sort of role? LJ Collier is a TEXTBOOK Veachlclamation Project. Ben Banogu was really interesting coming into the draft but really hasn't done shit; he wouldn't cost a thing and is worth a look, IMO.

Zach Allen has played awfully well so he's probably priced himself into 'real' player money, but if he falls through the first wave, I'd absolutely be interested in giving him Derek Barnett's deal and I think he'd be worth it and then some.

And I'm sure there are a half dozen or more that I've missed. But go find a 25-26 yr old kid coming off his rookie deal who hasn't quite gained a footing with his present team but has some stand-out attributes to put to use as a dedicated rush specialist. And as Duncan suggested, do the same at DT; someone like Dre'Mont Jones would be interesting (but he's probably gonna get a real nice deal).

Yeah, I'm not advocating specifically for Hughes. I'm just saying we need somebody in that mold. Not another big SDE.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Yeah, I'm not advocating specifically for Hughes. I'm just saying we need somebody in that mold. Not another big SDE.

Hughes is fine as next year's Ingram/Dunlap older vet with a little bit left in the tank guy.

I like those kind of pick-ups, they help teach the young'uns by example of how to be a pro, and can give you some decent rotational snaps.

That just can't be ALL that we do to address the situation.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Hughes is fine as next year's Ingram/Dunlap older vet with a little bit left in the tank guy.

I like those kind of pick-ups, they help teach the young'uns by example of how to be a pro, and can give you some decent rotational snaps.

That just can't be ALL that we do to address the situation.

I don't dislike Hughes or someone similar, obviously.

But here's the thing - I would add 2 and maybe 3 rookies to this DL. If you add 3 rookies AND an older Ingram/Hughes sort of vet, you don't really have much room left for the Lorenzo Carter kind of guy I'd like to add to the mix.

And I think I'm settling on Carter as my irrational, under the radar, 'I want' guy. He's an exceptional athlete and really long. He's added some size as he's matured and I think there's room for a little more.

I think you can get a quick twitch, 6'5'', 265 lb player who you can get on a really reasonable 2-3 year deal for his age 28-29 seasons. He's shown some sporadic pass-rush juice in the past though he's played almost exclusively in a 2-point stance.

Get a little bit more good weight on him and teach him to play with his hand in the dirt. Then rotate him in as a 3rd down pass rusher to fly off a wide edge and wreck shit. Still wish we'd have found a way to get him in that Fenton deal but it is what it is.

[JPH83]

If we could afford it I'd say a veteran like Hughes + a younger guy along the DL + a couple of draft picks. There's a lot of guys who'll be going out the door and a few that deserve to. Nnadi, Kaindoh, Clark, Dunlap, Herring maybe, and the practice squad DTs.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I don't dislike Hughes or someone similar, obviously.

But here's the thing - I would add 2 and maybe 3 rookies to this DL. If you add 3 rookies AND an older Ingram/Hughes sort of vet, you don't really have much room left for the Lorenzo Carter kind of guy I'd like to add to the mix.

And I think I'm settling on Carter as my irrational, under the radar, 'I want' guy. He's an exceptional athlete and really long. He's added some size as he's matured and I think there's room for a little more.

I think you can get a quick twitch, 6'5'', 265 lb player who you can get on a really reasonable 2-3 year deal for his age 28-29 seasons. He's shown some sporadic pass-rush juice in the past though he's played almost exclusively in a 2-point stance.

Get a little bit more good weight on him and teach him to play with his hand in the dirt. Then rotate him in as a 3rd down pass rusher to fly off a wide edge and wreck shit. Still wish we'd have found a way to get him in that Fenton deal but it is what it is.

What if it's two rookies, Carter, and Hughes?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

What if it's two rookies, Carter, and Hughes?

De/dt?

I can live with that. But you're working without a net. I was thinking draft 3 and 2 hit.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

De/dt?

I can live with that. But you're working without a net. I was thinking draft 3 and 2 hit.

well, I'm assuming we'd extend Jones, bring back Saunders and Wharton.

Dunno if Wharton's ready to play game one, or if he's the same. So yeah, I get your meaning.

But big body run stuffers are inexpensive, so that shouldn't be too hard to fill that Nnadi slot.

[Dull Tools]

I heard on Time's Ours that Karlaftis had the most pressures of any rookie this year. Is that correct? Can't see it anywhere else.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Dull Tools

I heard on Time's Ours that Karlaftis had the most pressures of any rookie this year. Is that correct? Can't see it anywhere else.

2nd from what I can tell.

Travon Walker has the most. Karlaftis, Hutchinson and Ebiketie are tied at 2. 5th is Thibodeaux but he's waaaaay in back of those first 4.

He's first in hurries, but not in total pressures. Walker has 1 fewer hurry but 3 more sacks and 1 more hit.

The issue w/ Karlaftis isn't raw numbers as much as win rate. Among guys with 75 or more pass rush snaps, he's 8th in win rate behind Paschal, Clemons, Thomas, Bonitto, Thibodeaux, Ebiketie and Hutchinson. He's right there with Jackson, Walker and Enagbare.

But it could be worse - he could be Boye Mafe - man, that guys been shite.

[RunKC]

This is on reddit. Karlaftis is tied with Hutchinson for most pressures but is 4th in pressure rate. This was a copy/paste from PFF

Also the tweet last week showed Karlaftis was 2nd best behind Hutchinson in pass rush reps without stunts or blitzes.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

2nd from what I can tell.

Travon Walker has the most. Karlaftis, Hutchinson and Ebiketie are tied at 2. 5th is Thibodeaux but he's waaaaay in back of those first 4.

He's first in hurries, but not in total pressures. Walker has 1 fewer hurry but 3 more sacks and 1 more hit.

The issue w/ Karlaftis isn't raw numbers as much as win rate. Among guys with 75 or more pass rush snaps, he's 8th in win rate behind Paschal, Clemons, Thomas, Bonitto, Thibodeaux, Ebiketie and Hutchinson. He's right there with Jackson, Walker and Enagbare.

But it could be worse - he could be Boye Mafe - man, that guys been shite.

This is it. This is where he needs to be better. People keep reading the numbers how they want and talking about how he's nearly there. Sure, he is, but good QBs don't care about "nearly" being pressured or DEs "nearly" beating the OT, the ball's gone by that point.

It's also why in the draft they really need to focus on speed this year imo. If I remember people weren't hugely high on guys like Ebikitie and Bonitto and I get it, because you can't see them out there every snap. But man we need some speed and bend, I don't care what Spags "type" is or isn't, just get some juice. I think you can in R2.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

2nd from what I can tell.

Travon Walker has the most. Karlaftis, Hutchinson and Ebiketie are tied at 2. 5th is Thibodeaux but he's waaaaay in back of those first 4.

He's first in hurries, but not in total pressures. Walker has 1 fewer hurry but 3 more sacks and 1 more hit.

The issue w/ Karlaftis isn't raw numbers as much as win rate. Among guys with 75 or more pass rush snaps, he's 8th in win rate behind Paschal, Clemons, Thomas, Bonitto, Thibodeaux, Ebiketie and Hutchinson. He's right there with Jackson, Walker and Enagbare.

But it could be worse - he could be Boye Mafe - man, that guys been shite.

You argue not to look at numbers like pressure singularly and yet use it as a singular basis for an argument against Karlaftis here? Very unlike you.

The numbers may point to the same (not sure I haven't checked), but I'm curious if they do.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by kccrow

You argue not to look at numbers like pressure singularly and yet use it as a singular basis for an argument against Karlaftis here? Very unlike you.

The numbers may point to the same (not sure I haven't checked), but I'm curious if they do.

I've been wholly content with Karlaftis to this point - to whatever extent I didn't give that impression, that was not my intent.

Though it also seems like I got my numbers wrong, so there's that to contend with.

Karlaftis is a solid player who's only going to get better.