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Old 06-27-2016, 11:23 AM  
DaFace DaFace is offline
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Personal finance and investing megathread extravaganza

I know lewdog (and maybe others) have mentioned the desire to have a place to chat about personal finance stuff. We'll see if there's enough interest to keep this going in the long-term, but at least for now, here's a place to chat about whatever personal finance topics come up.



If you're just getting started thinking about saving and don't know where to begin, this flow chart can help. Ask for advice in the thread for more help!

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Old 03-23-2017, 06:59 PM   #826
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Personally, I play craps.

On a more serious note, though, you should really stop "gambling" on stocks and throwing your money away since you seem terrible at it. And you should definitely stop posting financial advice for others, and probably stop posting altogether.
Oh my. Have you ever traded options?
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Old 03-23-2017, 07:01 PM   #827
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Don't worry about the money you didn't make. I scoped out NVDA 6 months ago and didn't put in a dime. Dumb. Have to move on.

I try to stay away from long options as much as I can. I am not a big fan of having a significant amount of money tied up for a long period of time without a dividend. Having said that, they definitely have there place to make money. Been looking long call options on MU at 25 but have not pulled the trigger.
Oh boy!
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Old 03-23-2017, 07:03 PM   #828
lewdog lewdog is offline
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Personally, I play craps.

On a more serious note, though, you should really stop "gambling" on stocks and throwing your money away since you seem terrible at it. And you should definitely stop posting financial advice for others, and probably stop posting altogether.
That's terrible reasoning.

He has other investments and this is his "play" money. You won't always be a winner and I am sure he's learning from his mistakes. If you don't want the risk, don't do it, that's my choice. But I understand options stock trading (thanks Scho!) and why some do it.
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Old 03-23-2017, 07:29 PM   #829
O.city O.city is offline
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Is it worth it for me to max out an IRA for the wife and I or could I get better returns elsewhere?
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Old 03-23-2017, 07:33 PM   #830
Buehler445 Buehler445 is offline
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Is it worth it for me to max out an IRA for the wife and I or could I get better returns elsewhere?
Depends on what your returns are. But if you're SE, a Roth is probably a better option. If there is a chance you might need the money I'd keep it out into some other mutual fund.
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Old 03-23-2017, 08:02 PM   #831
DaFace DaFace is offline
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Is it worth it for me to max out an IRA for the wife and I or could I get better returns elsewhere?
In terms of RETURNS, you can do basically the same thing with an IRA as you can with any other brokerage account, plus you get the tax benefits. So unless you're considering something outside of stocks and bonds, an IRA is pretty much always better than a brokerage account.

As Buehler said, the key is whether you need access to the money after you put it in. IRAs are meant to be a permanent deal, so you won't get to pull it out until you retire unless you want to pay penalties (though you can pull out Roth CONTRIBUTIONS early without penalty).
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Old 03-23-2017, 08:05 PM   #832
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Originally Posted by O.city View Post
Is it worth it for me to max out an IRA for the wife and I or could I get better returns elsewhere?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace View Post
In terms of RETURNS, you can do just as well with an IRA as you can with any other brokerage account, plus you get the tax benefits. So unless you're considering something outside of stocks and bonds, an IRA is pretty much always better than a brokerage account.

As Buehler said, the key is whether you need access to the money after you put it in. IRAs are meant to be a permanent deal, so you won't get to pull it out until you retire unless you want to pay penalties (though you can pull out Roth CONTRIBUTIONS early without penalty).
If he's a dentist and his wife is working, I doubt he would qualify for the Roth based on income level.

Roth IRA Income Limits (for single filers) Phase-out starts at $118,000; ineligible at $133,000
Roth IRA Income Limits (for married filers) Phase-out starts at $186,000; ineligible at $196,000
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Old 03-23-2017, 08:35 PM   #833
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Personally, I play craps.

On a more serious note, though, you should really stop "gambling" on stocks and throwing your money away since you seem terrible at it. And you should definitely stop posting financial advice for others, and probably stop posting altogether.
On a serious note, you should bend over and shove your head up your ass because you don't know shit and maybe putting your head up your ass will help you discover some.

Do you think my only investment is playing options? No jackass it's my 10% play money so stop giving me advice when you have no idea of my situation.

I'm not telling ANYONE to buy options and all my posts warn how it is risky and I give links to the CBOE and other learning before anyone even thinks about options.

Lastly I just started taking six months off and don't have to work for the next year because of my "crappy" investments. I quit my job and moved to Scottsdale.

Shut your piehole and maybe you can learn something......
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Old 03-24-2017, 04:51 AM   #834
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If he's a dentist and his wife is working, I doubt he would qualify for the Roth based on income level.

Roth IRA Income Limits (for single filers) Phase-out starts at $118,000; ineligible at $133,000
Roth IRA Income Limits (for married filers) Phase-out starts at $186,000; ineligible at $196,000
It depends. I don't know their income, but if he and his wife both max out a 401k/403b/whatever, max out HSA if they have a HDHC plan, etc. they could bring their AGI low enough to contribute to a Roth.
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Old 03-24-2017, 06:54 AM   #835
Buehler445 Buehler445 is offline
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If he's a dentist and his wife is working, I doubt he would qualify for the Roth based on income level.

Roth IRA Income Limits (for single filers) Phase-out starts at $118,000; ineligible at $133,000
Roth IRA Income Limits (for married filers) Phase-out starts at $186,000; ineligible at $196,000
If those are AGI numbers his might not be so bad with student loan interest. I'd have to look it up but I'm pretty sure it comes off in 1040 adjustments.

Not to be presumptive, O. It matters on my 1040, and I went to NOT-dental school.
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Old 03-24-2017, 10:29 AM   #836
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Thanks guys. We can't do a Roth, and I can only write off so much interest on the student loans. It sucks and it's bullshit, but whatever.

I can set up a 401k thru my office and max it out, which is something I'm starting this year as well. I don't really think I will need or atleast hope I won't need the $ until retirement, but I wonder if I'd be better off paying that in my student loans instead. It's at 7% and I graduated with 301k a few years back. I've got it down under 200k, but I've been throwing alot at it just to get out from under it asap.

Not sure that's wise, but it makes me feel better.

On a side note, fwiw, it's interesting to see how pts view dentists. They seem to think I'm just rolling in cash. Don't get me wrong, I do well, but between having student loan debt, buying a practice and all the shit thay comes with that, I was about 650k in debt before I had a single pt in the chair.

It's not all sunshine and rainbows. Sure there are ways to go about getting into dentistry with less debt and I wish, with hindsight, I'd have done a military residency and gave the gov service for some debt repayment, but it is what it is. I lucked into a really good practice opp that's turned out well for me so I'm not upset, just tend to be tired.
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Old 03-24-2017, 10:32 AM   #837
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It depends. I don't know their income, but if he and his wife both max out a 401k/403b/whatever, max out HSA if they have a HDHC plan, etc. they could bring their AGI low enough to contribute to a Roth.
This was an option I considered. I don't know much about the HSA, but we do have a hdhc plan for myself but the kids are a bit different as the wife feels they need good coverage.

Instead of the hsa, I tend to keep quite a bit of cash in my practice llc account for emergencies. Dunno if that's wise or not.
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Old 03-24-2017, 11:50 AM   #838
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Thanks guys. We can't do a Roth, and I can only write off so much interest on the student loans. It sucks and it's bullshit, but whatever.

I can set up a 401k thru my office and max it out, which is something I'm starting this year as well. I don't really think I will need or atleast hope I won't need the $ until retirement, but I wonder if I'd be better off paying that in my student loans instead. It's at 7% and I graduated with 301k a few years back. I've got it down under 200k, but I've been throwing alot at it just to get out from under it asap.

Not sure that's wise, but it makes me feel better.

On a side note, fwiw, it's interesting to see how pts view dentists. They seem to think I'm just rolling in cash. Don't get me wrong, I do well, but between having student loan debt, buying a practice and all the shit thay comes with that, I was about 650k in debt before I had a single pt in the chair.

It's not all sunshine and rainbows. Sure there are ways to go about getting into dentistry with less debt and I wish, with hindsight, I'd have done a military residency and gave the gov service for some debt repayment, but it is what it is. I lucked into a really good practice opp that's turned out well for me so I'm not upset, just tend to be tired.
Oh hell, there are phase outs for student loan interests. Forgot that. My bad.

I'm with you on the money thing. My gross receipts are pretty damn high. My net income is far lower. My net cash flow to management is really pretty dang low. So I'm handling a shitload of money, and trying to hang onto a couple bills as they flow by.

Regarding your debt service, servicing your business debt is paramount. If

you have to borrow money for anything, you will be borrowing against the equity in the business. That's not to say, don't pay attention to your student loans, especially if those rates are higher, but you really need to mind the equity in your practice, especially since it is in an LLC.

If you're good with that, plowing out student loan debt is good, especially if they are at 7%.

I'm glad you're doing well though. I have a friend that graduated vet school a few years ago with somewhere near your numbers. Now she's looking for hardship exemptions and shit. I told her she's way tougher than me. If I wasn't able to service debt, I'd melt down. Like full on nuclear meltdown. That is probably my biggest fear.

I'm also with you on the tired bit. I'm not so much tired of the job. I've worked a metric ****ton of hours, which sucks and I'm trying to do better on, but my bullshit tolerance is used up. Anymore I'm criminally pragmatic, and if you can't help me, or you **** around and waste my time, I might cut your head off. I'm working on that too, but that's a tougher one.

All that being said, I wouldn't change it. I don't miss corporate life. Like at all. Even when I'm working a billion hours.

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This was an option I considered. I don't know much about the HSA, but we do have a hdhc plan for myself but the kids are a bit different as the wife feels they need good coverage.

Instead of the hsa, I tend to keep quite a bit of cash in my practice llc account for emergencies. Dunno if that's wise or not.
Cash on hand is a good idea IMO. You'd like to be able to get a return on it, but I try to keep as much cash as I can because it always spends and it's always there.

That being said, if you have a personal emergency, make sure you talk to an accountant and review your operating agreement before you pull your money out and spend it on a non-business expense. Most guys don't give a shit, but I work very hard not to pierce the corporate veil.

Again, I'm really glad you're doing well. I felt overwhelmed with the $35K I graduated with.
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Old 03-24-2017, 12:30 PM   #839
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This was an option I considered. I don't know much about the HSA, but we do have a hdhc plan for myself but the kids are a bit different as the wife feels they need good coverage.

Instead of the hsa, I tend to keep quite a bit of cash in my practice llc account for emergencies. Dunno if that's wise or not.
You should definitely look into a HSA. I'm not exactly sure how it works for an llc but at least as an employee it lowers your taxable AGI and let's you pay for healthcare items with untaxed dollars. I remember the list of things you can use it to pay for being pretty broad too, such as contact lens solution, glasses, cough syrup. It definitely wasn't just the stuff you'd use your insurance card on

It's also the best retirement vehicle offered to Americans so if you can afford your healthcare deductible then you should invest the HSA in the stock market as it is triple tax deferred unlike a 401k or IRA you never pay taxes on funds going into or coming out of a HSA as long as they're approved healthcare expenditures. Until your 65, after that you can use it for hookers and blow or a boat if you want
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Old 03-24-2017, 12:40 PM   #840
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That's terrible reasoning.

He has other investments and this is his "play" money. You won't always be a winner and I am sure he's learning from his mistakes. If you don't want the risk, don't do it, that's my choice. But I understand options stock trading (thanks Scho!) and why some do it.
If he took his "play" money and put it in a broad market index fund he'd have $41,000 more today than he does. Losing money on stocks over the past 8 years is beyond embarrassing.

If you want to gamble, go to Las Vegas, throw your money away, but don't act like you're doing something half-intelligent or that you have advice others could learn from.
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