Chiefs The whole key to the offseason right here - Page 4

Chris Meck · 02-21-2019, 06:42 PM

I brought this up in another thread, but I feel like it may warrant it's own.

IF you cut Houston, it costs you $7 million, (5.6 if you wait till June 2 but you kinda can't wait that long to free up the cash)

If you tag and keep Ford, it's going to cost you like $16 million.

So you've got $23 million conservatively wrapped up in one position: RDE.

IF you keep Houston at $21 million, and tag and trade Ford's $16 million,

you have $21 million in that RDE position. PLUS you get the pick for Ford, which will be I think a decent #2 and perhaps a low #1.

With the extra high pick, you draft a RDE somewhere in your 4 picks in the top 64, along with a CB, and a S.

You'll have enough for one, maybe two impact FA's and be set for next year, when you can cut Houston for only $1.5 dead cap.

I think we've been looking at this wrong; it's a net savings to keep HOUSTON and let FORD go. He's also the better all-around player.

chiefzilla1501 · 02-21-2019, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

You can (and would) cut him next year rather than pay him $19 m and only have $1.5 m dead cap. As for this year, it won't have anything to do with his market value, which would be pretty high, but not $21 m. Might be a couple or 3 years at $15? Just a guess.

I have no issues with any posturing right now; both sides are going to play hardball, it's just business.

I'm sure Houston's agent has figured out what we did, that it's cheaper to keep him at his current cap number than it is to cut him and pay Dee Ford.

Here's an alternative scenario. You restructure Houston - turn his $16M base into signing bonus and turn his base into a vet min of $450K. Years 2 - 5 are reflective of what he'll be worth in his 30's. Perhaps you create a year 2 or 3 roster bonus so that in the future, it feels like a real contract. This option only adds a few extra million to our 2019 cap since we're paying $7M in dead money anyway. More importantly, makes his contract in 2019 and beyond reasonable for his age.

In that scenario, Houston gets paid the same 2019 $'s, but we take a much smaller cap hit.

Chris Meck · 02-21-2019, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Here's an alternative scenario. You restructure Houston - turn his $16M base into signing bonus and turn his base into a vet min of $450K. Years 2 - 5 are reflective of what he'll be worth in his 30's. Perhaps you create a year 2 or 3 roster bonus so that in the future, it feels like a real contract. This option only adds a few extra million to our 2019 cap since we're paying $7M in dead money anyway. More importantly, makes his contract in 2019 and beyond reasonable for his age.

What dead money? There's no dead money if we keep Houston. Ford is not currently under contract.

Any deal for a restructure with Houston is cool, but would be a negotiation and maybe he will, maybe he won't.

I'm saying that even if he won't, he's still the better deal than Ford. due to the cap hit of letting Houston go, which would be $7 million.

That more than makes up the difference in salary.

Plus the high pick you'll get from Ford.

Chris Meck · 02-21-2019, 08:08 PM

I guess my point is-
we, and all the non-connected fanboy site pundits have been playing checkers, and Veach might very well be playing chess.

chiefzilla1501 · 02-21-2019, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

What dead money? There's no dead money if we keep Houston. Ford is not currently under contract.

Any deal for a restructure with Houston is cool, but would be a negotiation and maybe he will, maybe he won't.

I'm saying that even if he won't, he's still the better deal than Ford. due to the cap hit of letting Houston go, which would be $7 million.

That more than makes up the difference in salary.

Plus the high pick you'll get from Ford.

The point about dead money is that we're paying $7M for Houston whether we cut him or keep him. So what I want to know is, if we restructured, how much more would we have to pay? In my restructure scenario, it's maybe $10M for 2019 (which means we'd pay only pay $2-3M beyond our cap obligations to keep him).

The other thing about my contract proposal is it allows Houston to earn his 2019 "guarantees" (which aren't really guaranteed), but 2020 and beyond can be a contract reflective of his value in his 30's. So that contract for Houston wouldn't be much different than if the Chiefs kept him for one year, then cut him.

YontsRBake · 02-21-2019, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAUTO

That's exactly what they can do.

Look up panthers and josh norman

This scenario requires the player to not sign the tag before its rescinded. Most players tagged sign it in the same week, which I would expect Ford to be advised to do.

Chris Meck · 02-21-2019, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The point about dead money is that we're paying $7M for Houston whether we cut him or keep him. So what I want to know is, if we restructured, how much more would we have to pay? In my restructure scenario, it's maybe $10M for 2019 (which means we'd pay only pay $2-3M beyond our cap obligations to keep him).

The other thing about my contract proposal is it allows Houston to earn his 2019 "guarantees" (which aren't really guaranteed), but 2020 and beyond can be a contract reflective of his value in his 30's. So that contract for Houston wouldn't be much different than if the Chiefs kept him for one year, then cut him.

Oh. well, weird way to look at it I guess, but yeah, he will cost us $7 m regardless, sure. Whether he'll agree to that drastic a restructure, I kind of doubt, but we don't know.

I guess my point is, even if you assume he will NOT restructure-and if you consider the $18 m we can save next year by not doing any restructuring, he's a better financial deal in every way than Ford is.

Plus, you know, he's only two years older than Ford. It's not like it's that drastic there either. But I don't think either is in our long term plans, and the smart fiscal thing is to keep Houston one more year and then cut him, like it was structured to do.

Chris Meck · 02-21-2019, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YontsRBake

This scenario requires the player to not sign the tag before its rescinded. Most players tagged sign it in the same week, which I would expect Ford to be advised to do.

ok, so yeah, there's the catch. You offer the tag, they sign it, you're on the hook as soon as they do. That makes sense.

I wouldn't be worried about nobody wanting Ford, though, so I'd tag him and shop him no worries.

**RealSNR** · 02-21-2019, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

It's been claimed he won't restructure for less guaranteed money.

I can't blame him, I wouldn't either.

Even if they DON'T convert some to bonus or whatever, he's still cheaper to keep than cut and pay Ford.

He's about an equal pass rusher and a much better run defender.

Who said this?

You mentioning this about Houston is the only post I've seen ANYWHERE that makes this claim.

chiefzilla1501 · 02-21-2019, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Oh. well, weird way to look at it I guess, but yeah, he will cost us $7 m regardless, sure. Whether he'll agree to that drastic a restructure, I kind of doubt, but we don't know.

I guess my point is, even if you assume he will NOT restructure-and if you consider the $18 m we can save next year by not doing any restructuring, he's a better financial deal in every way than Ford is.

Plus, you know, he's only two years older than Ford. It's not like it's that drastic there either. But I don't think either is in our long term plans, and the smart fiscal thing is to keep Houston one more year and then cut him, like it was structured to do.

I totally agree that the Chiefs should explore options for Ford. But only because they might be able to get a pick out of it.

**SAUTO** · 02-21-2019, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YontsRBake

This scenario requires the player to not sign the tag before its rescinded. Most players tagged sign it in the same week, which I would expect Ford to be advised to do.

You brought up rescinding the tag, not me. You never said a thing about before or after the player signing so I said how that could happen.

Otherwise yeah you either trade them and the whole franchise tag amount, you pay them the tag amount, or you work out an extension. I'm not sure what you aren't understanding.

Hog's Gone Fishin · 02-21-2019, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAUTO

I think the right move is to trade Ford

Hell no! That's the dumbest thing I keep hearing. Ford is the best pass rusher we have. he's also one of the best in the league and he's in his prime. With the offense we now have it puts teams into passing mode in the 2nd half and the best way to pressure that is a speed edge rusher.

Getting rid of houston or ford either one is just dumb!

And I don't give a shit about the money.

**SAUTO** · 02-21-2019, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

https://fansided.com/2019/02/21/just...rumors-chiefs/
I'm guessing we're working on the OP which responds to reports that the Chiefs will keep one or the other. Seems a lot more smoke around the Chiefs favoring keeping Ford, and cutting Houston. Between the reports that the Chiefs are willing to cut Houston & the reports that Houston won't restructure... can't imagine that smoke happens without the Chiefs putting a restructure ultimatum in front of him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealSNR

Who said this?

You mentioning this about Houston is the only post I've seen ANYWHERE that makes this claim.

Zillas link.

**The Franchise** · 02-21-2019, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simply Red

I'm in the no Houston or Ford camp - I don't care if anyone disagrees - my opinion won't waver.

This. Both can be gone.

Chris Meck · 02-21-2019, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealSNR

Who said this?

You mentioning this about Houston is the only post I've seen ANYWHERE that makes this claim.

oh you know, just a bunch of tweets from pundits, who probably are just speculating like everyone else.

That's it, really. No official anything.

Chris Meck · 02-21-2019, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog's Gone Fishin

Hell no! That's the dumbest thing I keep hearing. Ford is the best pass rusher we have. he's also one of the best in the league and he's in his prime. With the offense we now have it puts teams into passing mode in the 2nd half and the best way to pressure that is a speed edge rusher.

Getting rid of houston or ford either one is just dumb!

And I don't give a shit about the money.

then you're stupid, and you're lining up for another season of a Red Carpet Defense, #31 overall.

both guys play one position in this defense. You have no money at all to sign anyone of any impact to the rest of the defense.

We've been talking about this for quite awhile. Catch up.

02-21-2019, 06:42 PM
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $2014910	The whole key to the offseason right here I brought this up in another thread, but I feel like it may warrant it's own. IF you cut Houston, it costs you $7 million, (5.6 if you wait till June 2 but you kinda can't wait that long to free up the cash) If you tag and keep Ford, it's going to cost you like $16 million. So you've got $23 million conservatively wrapped up in one position: RDE. IF you keep Houston at $21 million, and tag and trade Ford's $16 million, you have $21 million in that RDE position. PLUS you get the pick for Ford, which will be I think a decent #2 and perhaps a low #1. With the extra high pick, you draft a RDE somewhere in your 4 picks in the top 64, along with a CB, and a S. You'll have enough for one, maybe two impact FA's and be set for next year, when you can cut Houston for only $1.5 dead cap. I think we've been looking at this wrong; it's a net savings to keep HOUSTON and let FORD go. He's also the better all-around player.
Posts: 17,455

02-21-2019, 08:08 PM	#48
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $2014910	I guess my point is- we, and all the non-connected fanboy site pundits have been playing checkers, and Veach might very well be playing chess.
Posts: 17,455