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Old 09-15-2019, 02:33 PM  
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Frank Clark ****ing sucks

Guy has done NOTHING in two games. Barely any pressures to speak of against trash OTs.

Yeah, I'm in bitchy gameday mode. Don't care. I'm tired of paying out the ass for defensive players who don't make plays.

At least Justin Houston could dominate against bad teams after we paid him.
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Old 09-23-2019, 03:08 PM   #511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunKC View Post
Hereís Frank Clark drawing the double team on the stunt with Tanoh. Pretty clear that Oakland was focused on him so Hudson could go against Jones 1X1.

Clarkís double team gave both Tanoh and Jones 1X1 opportunities and this is what happened:





It was clear as day that the Raiders were hell bent on taking him away and Daley wisely took advantage of it.

But hey it wasnít a sack so I guess that mean **** all.
That's....not Clark drawing a double team though...
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Old 09-23-2019, 03:14 PM   #512
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DJ is sure in a mood.
For the record - the 2 point conversion play was a good play by Clark. The athleticism/balance to defeat the cut and still knife in there after Sorensen set the edge was a genuinely good play. The guy does deserve credit for that (even if it was someone else that cleaned it up; don't recall who).

But when people are applauding him for being involved in a twist or almost making a tackle on a screen or simply not sitting down on the field when 2 guys have the adaucity to block him when we sent 3...I mean lord, when did Frank Clark start getting graded on the "Kindergartners Fingerpainting" scale?

It's just the damndest thing. Why are people so desperately trying to pretend like his performance to this point has been okay? This wasn't a 6th round flyer. Let's say we'd have traded Fisher in the offseason and then taken that pick PLUS 1st round pick and used it to get Trent Williams. Then extended Trent Williams at a record deal.

Would anyone be so defensive of Trent Williams playing to the same level Clark has played to thus far? No, of course not - because the result would be splashed across our screen every time Williams got Mahomes splattered. And yes, Clark's absolutely played that poorly but people just keep making excuses for him or, even worse, ignoring the fact outright.

I'm mostly just dumbfounded - not by Clark - but by CP. I mean FFS, does the guy pay for the server or something and I just didn't get the memo?
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Old 09-23-2019, 03:14 PM   #513
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Frank Clark's been our 4th best defensive lineman through 3 weeks.

Shorter - you feel better now?
How would Ogbah and Tanoh be doing if they were the focus like Clark?

Seriously dude did you watch the Raiders game? Watch the highlights of that game and almost every play youíll see a RB chip, WR chip or OL double him. Nearly every damn play.
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Old 09-23-2019, 03:18 PM   #514
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Yes and can't disagree with you on that but if the other three didn't have him on the line would they still have produced that well?
If you'd give Clark's snaps to Ogbah and given Ivey the rotational role that Ogbah presently, we wouldn't be quite as good - no.

But we wouldn't be that much worse off either. Like I said, Clark has played at functional starter level to this point - that's...functional. But it's not good. And Flowers could've gotten us 'functional starter' level easily. Preston Smith was a guy I really wanted in the off-season and he'd have done that and then some. Za'Darius Smith has looked great. Both guys cheaper AND we'd probably have Ya-Sin in the defensive backfield which would've sure been nice while Ward was half-assing that hail-mary sent his way.

The point isn't "what if he just didn't exist and we spent $20 million and 2 draft picks on hookers and blow..." - it's the opportunity cost of what was spent on Clark. And right now its troublesome. It will be especially so if we can't bring Jones back who has clearly been the most important part of this DL to this point.
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Old 09-23-2019, 03:23 PM   #515
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Hereís the difference between Ogbah and Clark.

Clark is out for a breather. Itís like they forgot Ogbah was even there. Free rush to the QB. Would never happen to Clark.



And the next play hereís Clark back in. Immediate chip by a TE and G rolling over to help.



Clark is better than Ogbah or any defensive end we have on the roster. Teams constantly focusing on him clearly tells you that.
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Old 09-23-2019, 03:25 PM   #516
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Originally Posted by RunKC View Post
How would Ogbah and Tanoh be doing if they were the focus like Clark?

Seriously dude did you watch the Raiders game? Watch the highlights of that game and almost every play youíll see a RB chip, WR chip or OL double him. Nearly every damn play.
Do you think the best rushers in football just get ignored, Run?

Every great player gets chipped. And no, it doesn't happen to Clark 'nearly every damn play', nor is a simple chip as aggressive a defense mechanism as you're making it out to be. He was ineffective against the Ravens and they were rarely giving him extra attention.

And even when they do - you don't pay complementary players $20 million. You pay $20 million to guys who can draw fire AND produce. That's why they cost $20 million. JJ Watt was out there eating double teams (effectively triple teams as a 3-tech as often as he was) and still wrecking defenses. And that's why he got the money he got. Peak Justin Houston and Von Miller would defeat double teams and simply laugh at a 'chip' as some kind of defense against them.

I reiterate - just how low are we gonna set this bar? "Oh, well I guess he tried hard and the RB chucked him in the shoulder so onto the next play!"

You don't give $20 million and a 1st rounder+ to a guy and then act like him simply being there is enough. It isn't. This guy is getting paid like a ****ing superstar and suddenly we're supposed to grade on a curve because "hey, his job is hard..." or something. Yeah, so is very all-pro player's but funny, when Veach said "Potential DPOY" I figured we'd get someone who might actually demonstrate it.

I can't remember many DPOY votes for a guy because he got chipped by the running back a few times and so actual production was deemed too difficult...
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Old 09-23-2019, 03:26 PM   #517
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The Chiefs rushed 3. They aren't rolling guys to him there I don't think. It's guys finding work.
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Old 09-23-2019, 03:28 PM   #518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunKC View Post
Hereís the difference between Ogbah and Clark.

Clark is out for a breather. Itís like they forgot Ogbah was even there. Free rush to the QB. Would never happen to Clark.



And the next play hereís Clark back in. Immediate chip by a TE and G rolling over to help.



Clark is better than Ogbah or any defensive end we have on the roster. Teams constantly focusing on him clearly tells you that.
Clark drawing the attention is great as long as other people produce because of it. I have no problems with what we have seen out of Clark so far. Teams are running away from him and doubling him in pass protection so other players should be drawing 1-1's and need to capitalize on that. A sack we got in Jacksonville was made in large part by Clark bull rushing the lineman almost into the QB and collapsing the pocket on that side and giving the QB no where to go. NExt thing you know another player is sacking the QB. All people here did was bitch because he didn't do some fancy swim move.
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Old 09-23-2019, 03:30 PM   #519
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So there is literally nothing that happens that you won't use as a defense of Frank Clark.

That 'chip' from the TE blasted Clark back so hard that the RT had time to completely set in his stance and just destroy him. He's slow off the ball, he lets the TE get into his body (no hand-fighting at all) - by any reasonable analysis that's a completely ineffective snap from Clark.

And you use it as proof that he's awesome. Because he was lined up over the TE. You realize that the TE was set in-line right? And they had no way to know that Clark was gonna be over there? That TE was gonna hit whoever was in front of him. And Clark did nothing to actually keep him out of his body.

Again - this is what I'm talking about. Kindergartners fingerpainting man. Clark did a shit job on that snap and instead it's being used as 'proof' that he must be good because the TE situated on that side of the field just happened to hit the guy in front of him before he went into the pattern.

Dafuq?
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Old 09-23-2019, 03:33 PM   #520
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The Chiefs rushed 3. They aren't rolling guys to him there I don't think. It's guys finding work.
Exactly.

People are completely ignoring the play as it's run and acting like it's run BECAUSE of Frank Clark. Rushing 3 and having a guard decide to go hit someone doesn't mean they're doubling Clark.

Running behind arguably the best G in football isn't trying to avoid Frank Clark.

Lining up over a TE who hits the guy before going into the pattern isn't an active decision to focus on Clark.

The LT blowing the pickup so that K-Pass can get around on a twist is not a designed reaction to Clark.

Teams are not game-planning around Frank Clark, lads. And he's not the first guy to ever get chipped by a runningback.

This is !@#$ing comical.
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Old 09-23-2019, 03:34 PM   #521
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I'll wait until at least the end of the season to judge Clark, I think he's been decent but not incredible obviously.
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Old 09-23-2019, 03:42 PM   #522
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Teams are absolutely game planning against Clark. The Raiders doubled and chipped him nearly every goddamn play. The Ravens ran away from his side most of the time.

Hell one of the Ravens 4th down conversions was designed rolling Lamar Jackson to the right. Why the hell do you think that is? Why would they roll him away from Frank Clark?

But hey he’s the 4th best DL on the team bc Ogbah gets a sack due to the OL forgetting he existed and not laying a single hand on him.

Good ****ing God
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Old 09-23-2019, 03:46 PM   #523
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Originally Posted by RunKC View Post
Teams are absolutely game planning against Clark. The Raiders doubled and chipped him nearly every goddamn play. The Ravens ran away from his side most of the time.

Hell one of the Ravens 4th down conversions was designed rolling Lamar Jackson to the right. Why the hell do you think that is? Why would they roll him away from Frank Clark?

But hey heís the 4th best DL on the team bc Ogbah gets a sack due to the OL forgetting he existed and not laying a single hand on him.

Good ****ing God
Because he throws better rolling to his dominant hand?

Clark spent a lot of Sunday on the right side, they kept running that way. Why is that?
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Old 09-23-2019, 03:48 PM   #524
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I'll wait until at least the end of the season to judge Clark
This is the only reasonable way to approach it.

If weíre judging based on 3 games, then Shaq Barrett and Ogbah are better players than Clark, Von Miller, and Bradley Chubb.
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Old 09-23-2019, 03:53 PM   #525
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Teams are absolutely game planning against Clark. The Raiders doubled and chipped him nearly every goddamn play. The Ravens ran away from his side most of the time.

Hell one of the Ravens 4th down conversions was designed rolling Lamar Jackson to the right. Why the hell do you think that is? Why would they roll him away from Frank Clark?

But hey he’s the 4th best DL on the team bc Ogbah gets a sack due to the OL forgetting he existed and not laying a single hand on him.

Good ****ing God
Because the Ravens run a ton of RPO action and Lamar Jackson is ****ing righthanded. Are you serious with this nonsense? Why would a designed roll be to Lamar Jackson's right? Is that seriously the question you're asking right now? Because even if it's a designed run (which the Ravens rarely do; Jackson will almost always have a pass option in there), you still have an illusion to sell and if you roll Jackson to his left I'd say that illusion is gone, wouldn't you? And again - Marshall Yanda.

Just more attributing an effect to a preferred cause. As you've done over and over and over again. Tell me more about how the in-line TE who hit a guy as he went into the pattern but had no idea that Clark was going to be lined up over him when that play was called was the Ravens 'targeting Clark' again.

And no, the Ravens didn't run away from his side because y'all continue to ignore the fact that Clark moved to the left side of the formation for much of the 2nd half. And the Ravens didn't react to it at all. And again, y'know, Marshall Yanda.

This is basic football stuff that I swear to Christ you knew before it involved Frank Clark. You actually cited a missed Twist as proof of Clark's dominance. How in the actual hell has this guy convinced you to simply stop looking at the play in front of you? These are not demonstrations of Clark's excellence at all.

The 2-point conversion? That was good - go with that. Excellent play.

All the rest of this noise? I'm just dumbfounded by this.
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