Hey Small Business Owners...What are you doing to ride the storm out?

[Trivers]

How are you handling HR issues?

Are you applying for SBA loans?
There are several types of loans. And new info is appearing daily.

Capital up to $10MM.
Up to 30 years to repay. Some actually are forgivable.
3.75 to 4%

https://disasterloan.sba.gov/ela/

https://www.inc.com/kevin-j-ryan/sma...incthismorning



My world: Everyone at the software companies are working remotely. The chocolate factory shut down yesterday due to not be considered an essential business. The chocolate elve had already left due to health concerns. I handle all the commercial rentals myself so no impact:

I don't intend to lay-off anybody...if this stretches into June or July...then we may look at cutting salaries by 25 to 50%. With the $1,200 everyone is getting already from the gov, and the 4 month unemployment (+$600/week additional), if we have to do layoffs, then the Team will not be totally without funds.

What are you doing to ride the storm out?

[mililo4cpa]

Originally Posted by O.city

Thats what I'm thinking i'm gonna do. Just file it and see what happens. I'm gonna use it to pay for employees either way and i'd think they want people to stay employed.

the banks are responsible for "underwriting" the PPP Loan (I use "underwriting" loosely, because they are ....I would think that they would be able to verify the existence of the business prior to the date requirement.

This is unchartered waters for me, and probably one of those details that nobody really thought about in the heat of the moment.

I would hope common sense and logic would dictate that those people were employed before, and you're trying to keep them employed during and afterwards....

If I can find an answer for you, I'll post....

[O.city]

Originally Posted by mililo4cpa

the banks are responsible for "underwriting" the PPP Loan (I use "underwriting" loosely, because they are ....I would think that they would be able to verify the existence of the business prior to the date requirement.

This is unchartered waters for me, and probably one of those details that nobody really thought about in the heat of the moment.

I would hope common sense and logic would dictate that those people were employed before, and you're trying to keep them employed during and afterwards....

If I can find an answer for you, I'll post....

Thanks man I appreciate it

[Trivers]

Morning!

Good article from Inc:

https://www.inc.com/kevin-j-ryan/sma...incthismorning

[mililo4cpa]

Originally Posted by O.city

Thanks man I appreciate it

I keep going through the bill over and over, looking for something that either helps or hurts your cause. I certainly didn't see anything that hurts your cause, but the help side isn't really definitive.

So, I'm going to speculate a little bit here:
in the "definitions" section of the PPP, it states "the term ‘eligible recipient’ means an individual or entity that is eligible to receive a covered loan"....I would think that the business entity itself meets this requirement, as you are filing on behalf of the business....

Later on (after reading through much legal mumbo jumbo), there is a "Considerations" section that states
"In evaluating the eligibility of a borrower for a covered loan with the terms described in this paragraph, a lender shall consider whether the borrower—(aa) was in operation on February 15, 2020; and (bb)(AA) had employees for whom the borrower paid salaries and payroll taxes; or (BB) paid independent contractors, as reported on a Form 1099–MISC.

Again, if I'm evaluating looking at it as an eligilble business entity as the borrower, and that entity was in existence before Feb 15th, and had employees who were paid salaries and payroll, then it'd fit.

Nothing I'm saying above is definitive, but again, my gut is that you'll be able to include that location in with your loan app....talk with your banker for sure, because, again, it wouldn't make sense to not fund that portion, which means (likely) people are out of work)...

[mililo4cpa]

Originally Posted by RINGLEADER

This is my question — do they calculate it based strictly off payroll or does it include freelancers/people who get 1099s.

I believe the answer to this is that you cannot include 1099s in your calculation of average payrolls to determine the amount you can borrow for PPP....

The reasoning is that independent contractors and sole proprietors can apply for their own PPP, so in a way, that would be "double dipping" if the business also included those payments....

[mililo4cpa]

Originally Posted by Trivers

Morning!

Good article from Inc:

https://www.inc.com/kevin-j-ryan/sma...incthismorning

Good synopsis....links to other related articles are good as well....

[O.city]

Originally Posted by mililo4cpa

I keep going through the bill over and over, looking for something that either helps or hurts your cause. I certainly didn't see anything that hurts your cause, but the help side isn't really definitive.

So, I'm going to speculate a little bit here:
in the "definitions" section of the PPP, it states "the term ‘eligible recipient’ means an individual or entity that is eligible to receive a covered loan"....I would think that the business entity itself meets this requirement, as you are filing on behalf of the business....

Later on (after reading through much legal mumbo jumbo), there is a "Considerations" section that states
"In evaluating the eligibility of a borrower for a covered loan with the terms described in this paragraph, a lender shall consider whether the borrower—(aa) was in operation on February 15, 2020; and (bb)(AA) had employees for whom the borrower paid salaries and payroll taxes; or (BB) paid independent contractors, as reported on a Form 1099–MISC.

Again, if I'm evaluating looking at it as an eligilble business entity as the borrower, and that entity was in existence before Feb 15th, and had employees who were paid salaries and payroll, then it'd fit.

Nothing I'm saying above is definitive, but again, my gut is that you'll be able to include that location in with your loan app....talk with your banker for sure, because, again, it wouldn't make sense to not fund that portion, which means (likely) people are out of work)...

That’s how I understand it. We incorporated the business after we purchased but it’s still the same entity it was before

[Dallas Chief]

Originally Posted by mililo4cpa

Good synopsis....links to other related articles are good as well....

Great article. I was wondering what to do about the professionals on our staff that made more than $100k and I think the article cleared it up. My banker doesn't really know anything that granular. (shocking!)

I was alarmed at the statement in the article about these not being funded for 3-4 weeks. That's really no different than a regular SBA loan, the only difference being is the shorter application and less vetting. That will be too little too late for a lot of businesses. We may be OK, but I know others that won't. Sucks.

[kcclone]

Originally Posted by mililo4cpa

I believe the answer to this is that you cannot include 1099s in your calculation of average payrolls to determine the amount you can borrow for PPP....

The reasoning is that independent contractors and sole proprietors can apply for their own PPP, so in a way, that would be "double dipping" if the business also included those payments....

I'm pretty certain you can include sub contractors pay for calculating the loan amount. That was a specific question we had to our SBA packager who we've worked with for several years. He said according to the National Association of Government Guaranteed Lenders, that in deed subs can be included as "payroll".

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Trivers

Morning!

Good article from Inc:

https://www.inc.com/kevin-j-ryan/sma...incthismorning

Good read, thanks.

So tomorrow I douche my banker with loan applications huh?

Originally Posted by O.city

That’s how I understand it. We incorporated the business after we purchased but it’s still the same entity it was before

Nah, once you create a corporation it is legally separate from management and shareholders, which is the point.

But you might be able to convince somebody to use the historical information because you didn't change procedures or personnel. Definitely try it. Hopefully they'll apply some common sense here, but it looks like there are ways to bone you on account of shitty timing. Hopefully they work with some common sense.

Whatever happens with the payroll, you should (according to my very limited understanding) be eligible for overhead relief.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Dallas Chief

Great article. I was wondering what to do about the professionals on our staff that made more than $100k and I think the article cleared it up. My banker doesn't really know anything that granular. (shocking!)

I was alarmed at the statement in the article about these not being funded for 3-4 weeks. That's really no different than a regular SBA loan, the only difference being is the shorter application and less vetting. That will be too little too late for a lot of businesses. We may be OK, but I know others that won't. Sucks.

Yeah, the timing thing could be problematic. Hopefully at least some of the bankers and credit holders will exercise some flexibility. But there are a lot of businesses that have been down for a long time. Hopefully they can open back up soon.

If I were president, I'd tag the IRS and have them issue refunds on 8.3% (1/12) of non-depreciation expenses on C, F, E, 4835, 1120, 1120S, 1065 and 1041 on either the 19 (if available) or 18 return. Then during the summer sometime apply for forgiveness. If not they have to carry forward the liability on their next tax return.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Good read, thanks.

So tomorrow I douche my banker with loan applications huh?



Nah, once you create a corporation it is legally separate from management and shareholders, which is the point.

But you might be able to convince somebody to use the historical information because you didn't change procedures or personnel. Definitely try it. Hopefully they'll apply some common sense here, but it looks like there are ways to bone you on account of shitty timing. Hopefully they work with some common sense.

Whatever happens with the payroll, you should (according to my very limited understanding) be eligible for overhead relief.

Yeah, apparently there are some extenuation circumstance stuff in there. So here's to hope.

[Trivers]

Letter from President of Bank:



Dear Valued Customer,



You have most likely been inundated with information regarding the Paycheck Protection Program under the CARES Act as well as information on the Families First Coronavirus Response Act (FFCRA). We would like to touch base with you on these programs and provide information on how we can help.



CARES Act and the Paycheck Protection Program

On March 27, 2020, Congress passed and the president signed into law the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security (CARES) Act, which provides economic support intended to be quickly available to workers and businesses. The Paycheck Protection Program is one of the largest sections of the Act and offers an estimated $349 billion in government-guaranteed loans to small businesses and non-profit organizations. While the program details are still being finalized, here is what we know so far.



Under the Paycheck Protection Program:

· You may be eligible if you are a small business with fewer than 500 employees, are a select type of business with fewer than 1,500 employees, are a 501(c)(3) non-profit with fewer than 500 workers, or are a 501(c)(19) veteran organization. Businesses must have been in operation on February 15, 2020 and had employees for whom it paid salaries and payroll taxes.

· Eligible recipients may qualify for a loan up to $10 million determined by 8 weeks of prior average payroll, plus an additional 25% of that amount.

· Loan payments under the program will be deferred for six months.

· If you maintain your workforce, SBA will forgive the portion of the loan proceeds that are used to cover the first 8 weeks of payroll and certain other expenses following loan origination.

· Loans will be guaranteed 100% by the U.S. Government

· No annual fee; no guarantee fee; no collateral requirement; no personal guarantee

· Maximum interest rate of 0.50%; maximum term and amortization of up to 2 years



Applying for the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP):

The Paycheck Protection Program is being implemented by the SBA with support from the Department of the Treasury. The SBA is working on finalizing the development of the program, and while all the details have not yet been communicated to financial institutions, we wanted to share with you important information on how you can start preparing your application for submission.



Preparing your application now will help ensure it is processed as efficiently as possible. Please know our dedicated team of bankers is ready to assist once we have all the details from the SBA and the program is officially put into place. We are a certified and Preferred SBA Lender. As such, we will be able to submit applications to the SBA the moment the program is implemented, which is expected to be Friday, April 3.



Step 1:

Read through and garner an understanding of the sample application. The SBA published a sample application form on March 31. Note, this is still a “sample”; however, it can assist you in preparing your application ahead of time. We expect a final version of the application will be published by the SBA on Friday, April 3.



Step 2:

Start compiling all necessary paperwork. Please note: we have not received final guidance on what documentation will be required along with your application; however, we anticipate it will include the following:

· 2019 year-end financial statements and most recent interim financial statements

· Number of employees on your payroll for the last 12 months as well as pay rates

· IRS payroll tax filings and state income taxes

· Payroll and unemployment insurance filings

· Employer paid health insurance premiums and employer retirement contributions for the last 12 months

· Payments on covered mortgage obligations, lease obligations, and utilities



Step 3:

Complete the sample PPP calculator we created for you (four separate tabs). You may use this sample calculator to determine the amount of your loan request as well as the anticipated forgivable portion of your loan. Again, this is a sample that we believe will be close to what the final calculator will look like from the SBA. This sample will provide an indication of your final loan amount. We ask that you fill in the forgivable amount in the calculator as you may not be able to get your entire loan amount forgiven. In the event this occurs, the remaining amount not eligible to be forgiven will be at an interest rate of 0.50% over 2 years.



Step 4:

Submit these preliminary items to your relationship manager. Once we receive the information, your relationship manager will review and will reach out if we have any questions. Please note: we may reach out for additional items once we get final details on the program from the SBA.



The Families First Coronavirus Response Act (FFCRA)

The Families First Coronavirus Response Act (FFCRA or Act) requires certain employers to provide their employees with paid sick leave or expanded family and medical leave for specified reasons related to COVID-19. The Department of Labor’s Wage and Hour Division administers and enforces the new law’s paid leave requirements. For more information regarding the FFCRA and its requirements, click here.



Covered employers qualify for dollar-for-dollar reimbursement through tax credits for all qualifying wages paid under the FFCRA. Qualifying wages are those paid to an employee who takes leave under the Act for a qualifying reason, up to the appropriate per diem and aggregate payment caps. Applicable tax credits also extend to amounts paid or incurred to maintain health insurance coverage. For more information, please see the Department of the Treasury’s website.



Where to Seek Assistance

We ask that you please check with your accountant or tax advisor as seeking the tax credit approach may be more beneficial as opposed to one of the loan programs. As we understand, you cannot take both tax credits and loan forgiveness. Also, once you choose a program, certain circumstances may prohibit you from applying for another loan program.



We understand you may have questions as you navigate through the details of these programs. Please know our team is working diligently around the clock to serve our customers and are here to help. Please contact your local office or relationship manager, and they will assist with any questions or concerns you may have.




Additional Resources:

· U.S. Chamber of Commerce Resources for Business

· Small Business Administration (SBA) Small Business Guidance & Loan Resources

· Small Business Administration (SBA) Disaster Assistance

· Sign up to receive SBA Updates

· Sample Payroll Protection Program (PPP) application

· Sample Payroll Protection Program (PPP) calculator

· IRS FAQs on Employee Retention Credit

[Trivers]

PPP Calculator

[mililo4cpa]

Originally Posted by Dallas Chief

Great article. I was wondering what to do about the professionals on our staff that made more than $100k and I think the article cleared it up. My banker doesn't really know anything that granular. (shocking!)

I was alarmed at the statement in the article about these not being funded for 3-4 weeks. That's really no different than a regular SBA loan, the only difference being is the shorter application and less vetting. That will be too little too late for a lot of businesses. We may be OK, but I know others that won't. Sucks.

For those above $100K: in the formula, you add in all the payroll, but then back out the amounts over $100K....For instance (an overly simplistic example), let's say you have 1 employee who made $110K. You would count the $110K as your payroll, but then back out $10K to get it down to the $100K limit.

As far as usage goes....theres a number of scenarios, but you'll want to make sure you get total loan forgiveness on the PPP and even on the EIDL portion that you roll into it....that's for another post