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Old 09-13-2019, 08:53 AM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Recap Debate 3

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Old 09-17-2019, 04:21 PM   #46
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Originally Posted by RodeoPants2 View Post
You are wrong. The question was whether or not the individual mandate was constitutional under the commerce clause, not the entire law.

It was thought at the time that a repeal of the individual mandate would cripple the law itself, and so a decision about the constitutionality of the individual mandate was functionally going to decide the future of the law. That turned out to be wrong, and the individual mandate penalty has been eliminated anyway.

Actually, the penalty still exists, it's just $0. I'm sure the republicans would march into court with straight faces to argue that were a tax if it were politically advantageous to do so.
There's also the issue of severability (whether or not the law can remain if the court strikes down a part of it), but we'll see. In the meantime, you keep spinning like a top about the GOP wanting to crush our poor countrymen who have pre-existing conditions. And when you do, make sure you leave out the part that most people would be completely unaffected because they didn't have pre-existing condition limitations before Obamacare came along. And ignore the fact that there would be an opportunity to prevent or mitigate that particular impact of an Obamacare repeal on the small segment of the population that it did impact.
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Old 09-17-2019, 04:36 PM   #47
RodeoPants2 RodeoPants2 is offline
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Nice dodge. But since congress already effectively repealed the mandate, and the law is functioning just fine, the severability argument is ridiculous.

Obamacare did lots and lots of things I could point out trump is suiing to end. medicaid expansion, removing lifetime caps, payment innovation, fraud detection, etc etc etc.

But he is suing to bring back pre-existing conditions, and has no mitigation plan.
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Old 09-17-2019, 04:41 PM   #48
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Originally Posted by RodeoPants2 View Post
Nice dodge. But since congress already effectively repealed the mandate, and the law is functioning just fine, the severability argument is ridiculous.

Obamacare did lots and lots of things I could point out trump is suiing to end. medicaid expansion, removing lifetime caps, payment innovation, fraud detection, etc etc etc.

But he is suing to bring back pre-existing conditions, and has no mitigation plan.
That's no way to judge severability. Unconstitutional laws that make it through the legislative process "function fine", albeit unconstitutionally, until they're struck down by the court.

My understanding is that there is language in the law itself indicating that the lawmakers intended the entire law to stand or fall as one (or perhaps accidentally indicated it should), but I'm not an expert on the details of the arguments.

I'm OK with starting over, pre-existing conditions and all.

Also, there was no dodge.
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Old 09-17-2019, 04:52 PM   #49
RodeoPants2 RodeoPants2 is offline
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Lol ok. You thought the original lawsuit was about the entire law and not just the individual mandate. And that somehow the tax finding supporting the mandate could magically be applied to the rest if the law.
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Old 09-17-2019, 06:58 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by RodeoPants2 View Post
So he's trying to end the prohibition on pre-existing conditions, and he has no plan to rectify that. That just isn't functionally different from ending them.

LOL are you thinking the repubs would be too politically squeamish. There are the same lawless idiots that stole a supreme court seat, locked up kids separate from their parents, brazenly violates the constitution (see: emoluments), completely ignores the law when it comes to congressional subpeonas, still hides trumps tax returns, etc. etc.

Well, the individual mandate was ruled to be constitutional as a tax, the mandate has now been repealed. What does that have to do with the constitutionality of the rest of the law?
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