***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***

[JakeF]

A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana

Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.

Originally Posted by Dartgod

People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

Apparently the CoronaVirus can survive on a inanimate objects, such as door knobs, for 9 days.

California coronavirus case could be first spread within U.S. community, CDC says
By SOUMYA KARLAMANGLA, JACLYN COSGROVE
FEB. 26, 2020 8:04 PM

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating what could be the first case of novel coronavirus in the United States involving a patient in California who neither recently traveled out of the country nor was in contact with someone who did.

“At this time, the patient’s exposure is unknown. It’s possible this could be an instance of community spread of COVID-19, which would be the first time this has happened in the United States,” the CDC said in a statement. “Community spread means spread of an illness for which the source of infection is unknown. It’s also possible, however, that the patient may have been exposed to a returned traveler who was infected.”

The individual is a resident of Solano County and is receiving medical care in Sacramento County, according to the state Department of Public Health.

The CDC said the “case was detected through the U.S. public health system — picked up by astute clinicians.”

Officials at UC Davis Medical Center expanded on what the federal agency might have meant by that in an email sent Wednesday, as reported by the Davis Enterprise newspaper.

The patient arrived at UC Davis Medical Center from another hospital Feb. 19 and “had already been intubated, was on a ventilator, and given droplet protection orders because of an undiagnosed and suspected viral condition,” according to an email sent by UC Davis officials that was obtained by the Davis Enterprise.

The staff at UC Davis requested COVID-19 testing by the CDC, but because the patient didn’t fit the CDC’s existing criteria for the virus, a test wasn’t immediately administered, according to the email. The CDC then ordered the test Sunday, and results were announced Wednesday. Hospital administrators reportedly said in the email that despite these issues, there has been minimal exposure at the hospital because of safety protocols they have in place.

A UC Davis Health spokesperson declined Wednesday evening to share the email with The Times.

Since Feb. 2, more than 8,400 returning travelers from China have entered California, according to the state health department. They have been advised to self-quarantine for 14 days and limit interactions with others as much as possible, officials said.

“This is a new virus, and while we are still learning about it, there is a lot we already know,” Dr. Sonia Angell, director of the California Department of Public Health, said in a statement. “We have been anticipating the potential for such a case in the U.S., and given our close familial, social and business relationships with China, it is not unexpected that the first case in the U.S. would be in California.”

It is not clear how the person became infected, but public health workers could not identify any contacts with people who had traveled to China or other areas where the virus is widespread. That raises concern that the virus is spreading in the United States, creating a challenge for public health officials, experts say.

“It’s the first signal that we could be having silent transmission in the community,” said Lawrence Gostin, director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law. “It probably means there are many more cases out there, and it probably means this individual has infected others, and now it’s a race to try to find out who that person has infected.”

On Tuesday, the CDC offered its most serious warning to date that the United States should expect and prepare for the coronavirus to become a more widespread health issue.

“Ultimately, we expect we will see coronavirus spread in this country,” said Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. “It’s not so much a question of if, but a question of when.”

According to the CDC’s latest count Wednesday morning, 59 U.S. residents have tested positive for the new strain of coronavirus — 42 of whom are repatriated citizens from a Diamond Princess cruise. That number has grown by two since Messonnier’s last count Tuesday, although the CDC was not immediately available to offer details on the additional cases.

More than 82,000 cases of coronavirus have been reported globally, and more than 2,700 people have died, with the majority in mainland China, the epicenter of the outbreak.

But public health leaders have repeatedly reminded residents that the health risk from the novel coronavirus to the general public remains low.

“While COVID-19 has a high transmission rate, it has a low mortality rate,” the state Department of Public Health said in a statement Wednesday. “From the international data we have, of those who have tested positive for COVID-19, approximately 80% do not exhibit symptoms that would require hospitalization. There have been no confirmed deaths related to COVID-19 in the United States to date.”

CDC officials have also warned that although the virus is likely to spread in U.S. communities, the flu still poses a greater risk.

Gostin said the news of potential silent transmission does not eliminate the possibility of containing the virus in the U.S. and preventing an outbreak.

“There are few enough cases that we should at least try,” he said. “Most of us are not optimistic that that will be successful, but we’re still in the position to try.”

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by SupDock

Yet, more.people are dying at home. It is either people refusing to seek care or . . .?

As for cause of death, you are exactly right , if they think Covid-19 contributed to the death, they write it down. Which is what they should do.

Well what they "think" and what they "know" can very easily be two completely different things. And possibly contributing and being the cause again, two different things.

[SupDock]

Originally Posted by petegz28

Well what they "think" and what they "know" can very easily be two completely different things.

Sure, which is why they use their expertise and training to make a clinical decision. What more could you ask?

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by SupDock

Sure, which is why they use their expertise and training to make a clinical decision. What more could you ask?

To state it may have been the cause if you don't know for sure. I don't thin that is being done. It appears from what we are being told that if they think Covid is involved in any way, shape or form the cause of death is Covid.

It reminds of the movie Sleepy Hollow when the Jailor says "if you find them in the river then the cause of death is drowning". When Johnny Depp argues that it could be the case but the person could also have been dead prior to being thrown into the river he gets scoffed at for even suggesting such.

I'm just saying with the way the media loves to tout the death toll we need to be ****ing sure what is being reported is accurate.

[lewdog]

Originally Posted by petegz28

Well what they "think" and what they "know" can very easily be two completely different things. And possibly contributing and being the cause again, two different things.

Originally Posted by petegz28

To state it may have been the cause if you don't know for sure. I don't thin that is being done. It appears from what we are being told that if they think Covid is involved in any way, shape or form the cause of death is Covid.

It reminds of the movie Sleepy Hollow when the Jailor says "if you find them in the river then the cause of death is drowning". When Johnny Depp argues that it could be the case but the person could also have been dead prior to being thrown into the river he gets scoffed at for even suggesting such.

I'm just saying with the way the media loves to tout the death toll we need to be ****ing sure what is being reported is accurate.

It can be similar to someone having a massive stroke.

That person doesn't usually die from the stroke itself, but let's say aspiration pneumonia. So while the pneumonia was the reason for the death, the cause of death is from the CVA, since that started the cascade of events that lead to other issues which would have otherwise not have been present.

In many cases the pneumonia may kill people after they acquire COVID but COVID is still correctly labeled the cause of death because the pneumonia wouldn't have been present without the COVID.

Does that help?

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by SupDock

Sure, which is why they use their expertise and training to make a clinical decision. What more could you ask?

And I'll tell you a true story about doctors and their expertise...

A friend of mine had heart surgery. When he came out of surgery he couldn't see. He was told by many doctors that it was the result of the anesthetic and his eye sight would return to normal in a couple weeks tops.

30 days later when he went to see a neurologist he was informed he had a stroke during his surgery, which I guess is not that uncommon during heart surgery, and that it would be nothing short of a miracle if his eye sight ever returned.

So there you have at least 3 doctors that I know of for a fact if not more telling him it was one thing only to find out 30 days later it was something completely different.

Now I admit these doctors know more than I ever will know but I also know that just because they assume something doesn't make them right.

[SupDock]

Originally Posted by petegz28

To state it may have been the cause if you don't know for sure. I don't thin that is being done. It appears from what we are being told that if they think Covid is involved in any way, shape or form the cause of death is Covid.

It reminds of the movie Sleepy Hollow when the Jailor says "if you find them in the river then the cause of death is drowning". When Johnny Depp argues that it could be the case but the person could also have been dead prior to being thrown into the river he gets scoffed at for even suggesting such.

I'm just saying with the way the media loves to tout the death toll we need to be ****ing sure what is being reported is accurate.

You cannot be 100 percent certain.

I'm not sure what distinction you are making,. I use the words "cause" and "contributed to" and similar ways.

Your analogy is an interesting one, but I use it to come to a different conclusion. If someone had a heart attack while swimming and then drowned , they both are causes of death. This is why Covid-19 will show up on death certificates if it is thought to have contributed.

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by lewdog

It can be similar to someone having a massive stroke.

That person doesn't usually die from the stroke itself, but let's say aspiration pneumonia. So while the pneumonia was the reason for the death, the cause of death is from the CVA, since that started the cascade of events that lead to other issues which would have otherwise not have been present.

In many cases the pneumonia may kill people after they acquire COVID but COVID is still correctly labeled the cause of death because the pneumonia wouldn't have been present without the COVID.

Does that help?

No need for help. I get it fine.

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by SupDock

You cannot be 100 percent certain.

I'm not sure what distinction you are making,. I use the words "cause" and "contributed to" and similar ways.

Your analogy is an interesting one, but I use it to come to a different conclusion. If someone had a heart attack while swimming and then drowned , they both are causes of death. This is why Covid-19 will show up on death certificates if it is thought to have contributed.

Well your assumption could very well be wrong. What if the heart attack killed them dead before they had a chance to drown? The point of my analogy, assuming you haven't seen the movie, is that Depp argued until you actually checked for water in the lungs you could not be certain that the person had drowned. He could have been killed then dumped into the river was his argument.

[lewdog]

Originally Posted by petegz28

No need for help. I get it fine.

You like to think you get it all but your posts clearly delineate otherwise.

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by lewdog

You like to think you get it all but your posts clearly delineate otherwise.

Thanks, Dad.....

[SupDock]

Originally Posted by petegz28

And I'll tell you a true story about doctors and their expertise...

A friend of mine had heart surgery. When he came out of surgery he couldn't see. He was told by many doctors that it was the result of the anesthetic and his eye sight would return to normal in a couple weeks tops.

30 days later when he went to see a neurologist he was informed he had a stroke during his surgery, which I guess is not that uncommon during heart surgery, and that it would be nothing short of a miracle if his eye sight ever returned.

So there you have at least 3 doctors that I know of for a fact if not more telling him it was one thing only to find out 30 days later it was something completely different.

Now I admit these doctors know more than I ever will know but I also know that just because they assume something doesn't make them right.

I can only imagine how difficult that was . Physicians can definitely be wrong. But I see no solution other than using their clinical opinion.

[Demonpenz]

Lews your daddy clap clap clap clap clap

[SupDock]

Originally Posted by petegz28

Well your assumption could very well be wrong. What if the heart attack killed them dead before they had a chance to drown? The point of my analogy, assuming you haven't seen the movie, is that Depp argued until you actually checked for water in the lungs you could not be certain that the person had drowned. He could have been killed then dumped into the river was his argument.

Most deaths are not autopsied . . .

[lewdog]

Originally Posted by petegz28

Thanks, Dad.....

It's sad that someone so much younger than you has to provide you with so much world knowledge.

Sad!!!!

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by SupDock

I can only imagine how difficult that was . Physicians can definitely be wrong. But I see no solution other than using their clinical opinion.

Opinion is fine when it is stated as such. And I know I am nitpicking a fine line here but when you have an entire country on lockdown because of this shit and the death toll is one of the metrics being used to justify such then you had best be damned sure what you are reporting is ****ing accurate. Because the consequences going far beyond just being wrong. Our entire economy is taking it up the ass right now and though it will bounce back there will be a cost.

So what is being reported needs to be accurate. This isn't the occasional one-off case. We have our medical professionals talking about this being our "Pearl Harbor" moment, people are losing their jobs and their businesses which you being in the medical field should know can lead to all kinds of ancillary issues like depression, suicide, alchol and drug addiction, child abuse, spousal abuse, etc.

This is not the time to be cavalier or unsure about shit because the consequences are extraordinary.