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Old 10-11-2019, 07:35 PM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is online now
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Democrats will dictate what Churches can believe

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Old Yesterday, 09:58 PM   #91
stevieray stevieray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RodeoPants2 View Post
Christianity is ridiculous horseshit.

Prove it.

I'll wait.
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Old Yesterday, 10:25 PM   #92
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
That’s not a consideration at all.


Do you know what the 1st Amendment is?
Right. Cdcox doesn't know what it is either or show any ability to apply it regarding laws.
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Old Yesterday, 10:47 PM   #93
Just Passin' By Just Passin' By is offline
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Originally Posted by Cave Johnson View Post
For sure.

There’s a lot of narrow minded, money hungry, poor people-hating bigots masquerading around as Christians these days.
Indeed. They call themselves "Democrats".
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Old Yesterday, 11:00 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Nope. It is not. All over your head.

That is not a positive right. It is a natural fundamental right. So legislation passed on the masses, must ensure there is an exception to protect a natural, fundamental right because it does not come from the govt/legislation.

Oh and a code, is also not the law. But the code cannot violate the constitution; just as a law cannot.

You're unable to think critically with this issue, because you lack a basic fundatmental understanding of natural rights, which our Constitution is based on, especially the BoRs, which tells the federal govt's congress where they cannot make laws against. Once you understand that, our system differs because natural rights pre-exist govt, then you will be able to apply deductive reasoning. You can't because you are fundamentally a leftist, a statist, at heart and think more like a European—than an American.

Constitution is a negative rights document—not a positive rights document:
Bingo!

It amazes me how many people don't get this.
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Old Yesterday, 11:23 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Nope. It is not. All over your head.

That is not a positive right. It is a natural fundamental right. So legislation passed on the masses, must ensure there is an exception to protect a natural, fundamental right because it does not come from the govt/legislation.

Oh and a code, is also not the law. But the code cannot violate the constitution; just as a law cannot.

You're unable to think critically with this issue, because you lack a basic fundatmental understanding of natural rights, which our Constitution is based on, especially the BoRs, which tells the federal govt's congress where they cannot make laws against. Once you understand that, our system differs because natural rights pre-exist govt, then you will be able to apply deductive reasoning. You can't because you are fundamentally a leftist, a statist, at heart and think more like a European—than an American.

Constitution is a negative rights document—not a positive rights document:
I think that Locke was completely wrong about his conceptions of about the "state of natural man". No one had any rights. Whoever had the biggest rock and was willing to swing it the hardest would take what they want. There were no rights. Locke imagined a fantasy existence if he thinks primitive people had any rights at all. They had freedom to do what they pleased including dying on the point of their neighbor's stick and that's about it.

Theories about human rights that stem from social contracts make more sense to me. People decided to forgo their freedom to conk someone over the head with a rock, because the brother of the conked might conk them over the head in retaliation. There was no right not to be conked, there was just an agreement to forgo that freedom. Let's cooperate instead of war. Groups that cooperated were able to achieve more and steadily asserted more dominance over groups that didn't cooperate. Empathy plays a huge role as well -- the golden rule that is codified in many religions. Humans have succeeded because of their ability to cooperate. Rights allow us to work together closely and cooperatively. But history has shown that groups (races, religions, ethnicities, sexes, genders, etc.) have had to fight to be included in the social contract. If there was some kind of natural law that gave them these rights, it did them zero good until they asserted them. The founding fathers may have been inspired by natural law, but the history of our country shows that it isn't worth two cents without the majority agreeing to include an excluded minority in the cool kids club, usually after bloodshed. Having empathy for fellow humans helps too.
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Old Yesterday, 11:59 PM   #96
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Nope. Another fundamental statist, leftist argument.

Read the First Amendment. It disagrees with you.
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Old Today, 05:21 AM   #97
stevieray stevieray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
I think that Locke was completely wrong about his conceptions of about the "state of natural man".
^the arrogance^



And you think you are going to live in your body forever, too.

I knew you'd run away.
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Old Today, 05:34 AM   #98
stumppy stumppy is online now
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Another fake thread title. Surprise surprise surprise.
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Old Today, 05:45 AM   #99
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
^the arrogance^



And you think you are going to live in your body forever, too.

I knew you'd run away.
His whole argument is based on the idea that freedom of religion was given to us by the U.S. Government meaning it is a positive right. Thus govt can take it away. It serves their ends for NO limits on central govt power.

Lefties—fascists, communists and all other forms of authoritarians like that basic premise, because it allows them to take away or infringe what was considered by our Framers to be a natural right.

Congress could have just written their income tax legislation as applying to profit entities instead or writing it as an exemption, which would have accomplished the same end without infringing the First Amendment.

Last edited by BucEyedPea; Today at 05:51 AM..
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Old Today, 09:03 AM   #100
Garcia Bronco Garcia Bronco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
I think that Locke was completely wrong about his conceptions of about the "state of natural man". No one had any rights. Whoever had the biggest rock and was willing to swing it the hardest would take what they want. There were no rights. Locke imagined a fantasy existence if he thinks primitive people had any rights at all. They had freedom to do what they pleased including dying on the point of their neighbor's stick and that's about it.

Theories about human rights that stem from social contracts make more sense to me. People decided to forgo their freedom to conk someone over the head with a rock, because the brother of the conked might conk them over the head in retaliation. There was no right not to be conked, there was just an agreement to forgo that freedom. Let's cooperate instead of war. Groups that cooperated were able to achieve more and steadily asserted more dominance over groups that didn't cooperate. Empathy plays a huge role as well -- the golden rule that is codified in many religions. Humans have succeeded because of their ability to cooperate. Rights allow us to work together closely and cooperatively. But history has shown that groups (races, religions, ethnicities, sexes, genders, etc.) have had to fight to be included in the social contract. If there was some kind of natural law that gave them these rights, it did them zero good until they asserted them. The founding fathers may have been inspired by natural law, but the history of our country shows that it isn't worth two cents without the majority agreeing to include an excluded minority in the cool kids club, usually after bloodshed. Having empathy for fellow humans helps too.
you are correct....we have to fight to maintain our rights from the tyrants. Sic Semper Tyrannis.
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Old Today, 09:07 AM   #101
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco View Post
you are correct....we have to fight to maintain our rights from the tyrants. Sic Semper Tyrannis.
So you think there's no natural rights versus positive rights? He's not defending any right such as the First of Amendment that's enshrined in the Bill of Rights that we need to fight to maintain. He's for taking a right away via legislation—based on consensus by some kind of social contract. In this case, the social contract means churches should be taxed.

There is no social contract—that's the real myth he overlooks. If there is one, I never signed onto it. If anything our Framers felt the First Amendment was something they could agree on.

I'd be interested to know what rights must we fight to maintain to you?
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Old Today, 09:17 AM   #102
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Examining the "Social Contract" myth:

Tho' it cannot be precisely stated, but the thinking goes generally by this:
"In return for whatever benefits and privileges you may incur by living in A, B, and USA, you will do what the rulers of those communities order, or face whatever punishments they see fit to place upon you."
It is admittedly rather open-ended, but necessary nonetheless if government is to operate under some sort of veneer of legitimacy. In other words, the obligation to obey is one you took upon yourself, voluntarily, simply by living in A, B, and USA. So shut up and do what you’re told!...

In any event, for the overwhelming majority of us, it’s irrelevant. We were born here, and were never at any time aware, or made aware, that any sort of agreement existed between our rulers and us. And, should we be made aware of it, we would realize that an unwritten agreement is pretty hard to enforce, especially when it was unspoken as well, and its exact terms are unspecified.

The idea, in other words, is just plain crazy, and doesn’t merit serious discussion.
Benefits and privileges are not necessarily all rights.
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Old Today, 09:48 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
So you think there's no natural rights versus positive rights? He's not defending any right such as the First of Amendment that's enshrined in the Bill of Rights that we need to fight to maintain. He's for taking a right away via legislation—based on consensus by some kind of social contract. In this case, the social contract means churches should be taxed.

There is no social contract—that's the real myth he overlooks. If there is one, I never signed onto it. If anything our Framers felt the First Amendment was something they could agree on.

I'd be interested to know what rights must we fight to maintain to you?
He's right in the sense that humans have decided to exhort the ascertain of human rights about themselves. It's a very technical and intellectual view. Which tells me that the poster is some kind of engineer as a profession, at least that's my first guess.

Regardless, that is the view and here's the thing....you take it too far and people will resist...which leads to conflict and death. It's been proven over and over in our history as a species.
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