When drafting for defense, Andy Reid has failed miserably.

[CoMoChief]

I'm bored, so I wrote a novel for discussion.

But I was thinking about the defense, and how the Chiefs are entering in a slight overhaul/transformation of what's been recently a veteran D. Not only is Bob Sutton a huge problem and should've been fired after losing to all NY teams last season and the playoff 2nd half collapse at home vs TEN, but he doesn't have much to work with either. The players he does have to work with come w/ big question marks, and high price tags that make them untradeable.

I know that not every position can be a probowler, and that in most cases, late rd draft picks don't last long and usually are cut and then are possibly picked up elsewhere, just like the Chiefs usually sign players once teams cut down.

But if you look back to 2013, the Chiefs don't have really any home grown draft picks on D. All of that home grown talent is on the offensive side of the ball. Now the Chiefs had some veteran people on D over recent yrs like Poe, DJ, Hali, Smith, Abdullah, Revis, KPL, so that is part of it. But the players Chiefs draft on D side of the ball have not panned out. The 1 person who really has, Peters..was shipped off for peanuts because he was an asshole mon-sat and kneeled to his BLM sjw overlords, which caused fan backlash. That and Chiefs probably wanted to control where he went at the very least, preventing him from being a Raider because thats exactly what would have happened after this season. I mention this later, but I think it was criminal this year for Chiefs/Veach/Reid not to draft a CB early. I think the Chiefs reached for pretty much all of their early picks in 2018. Guess we'll see. But look at all the D players no longer here. And the ones here are mostly ones who suck ass, or fill out the bottom part of the depth chart and are mostly on ST. And the Chiefs have little cap room to sign any real defensive FA talent.

2013
(4)ILB-Nico Johnson...not on team
(5)S-Sanders Commings...not on team
(7)DE-Mike Catapano...not on team

It was pretty evident given Reid is an O guy, and with the multitude of problems surrounding the Chiefs O that Reid was going to go O-heavy in this draft, Fisher(sucks), Kelce along w/ trading for Alex Smith set that foundation for new era. O always gets the train movin' pts = entertainment = fan interest, and the Chiefs were in a franchise top/bottom overhaul/makeover from the dumpster fire that was the Pioli era. But these were late rd picks, so not only are you picking from a talent pool of lesser quality guys (normally), but the players chosen didn't last long at all while here. Commings had the inj that essentially ended his NFL career, and Catapano was sent off packing after some weird medical issue. Nico Johnson played as a reserve and on ST for a short period of time but was nothing of any value.

2014
(1)OLB-Dee Ford...starter
(3)CB-Philip Gaines...not on team (thank God)
(UDFA)S-Daniel Sorensen...starter but inj(addition by subtraction)

This overall was just a terrible Chiefs draft from top to bottom. Reid drafted Dee Ford w/ #1 pick. Ford remains a starter to this day, but underperforms a great deal and misses a lot of time due to inj. He's had 1 promising year since being drafted and as a former #1 draft pick, many people consider Ford a bust. He was supposed to replace Hali but Chiefs decided to give Hali another contract(stupid). Ford is terrible defending the run still to this day, so much so teams make it a focal point to run at him. Bottom line is, for a 1st rd pick, we haven't gotten shit out of Ford for a variety of reasons, and IMO, unless he pulls a 15-20 sack probowl season out of his ass the Chiefs should absolutely let him walk after this yr. Gaines is one of the worst CB's to ever put on a Chiefs jersey and Sorensen is currently everyone's favorite player to hate on, and rightfully so, the guy is trash. He's slow af and you think he's going to improve at all after his inj? Chiefs need to let him walk as well. Can't believe the amount of coin he's making given his skillset. He's laid the wood at times, but bfd, so has everyone else in the NFL.

2015
(1)CB-Marcus Peters...not on team(traded)
(3)CB-Steven Nelson...starter(unfortunately)
(4)ILB-Ramik Wilson...not on team
(5)OLB-DJ Alexander...not on team(traded for KPL, no longer on team)
(6)DT-Rakeem Nachos Roches...not on team
(UDFA)DE-David Irving...not on team

Peters was the best defensive 1st rd pick the Chiefs have had since drafting Berry in 2010, ended up being a ballhawking playmaker who won us games, and then was traded to Rams for ****ing peanuts because he was an asshole mon-sat and kneeled to some BLM bullshit. Would have been better just to keep him for another year and then just let him walk. People expect Nelson to have a break out year. I just dont see it. He's avg at best and IMO is easily replacable. Plus he loves to line up 15yds off his WR, ****ing annoying. Wilson was slow, Alexander wasn't really expected to do much other than ST, and was evetually traded. Nachos was avg, good high motor guy but was awful in the running game and wasn't worth keeping. And really I don't remember much of anything about Irving, the stuff I do remember was while he was w/ DAL.

2016
(2)DT-Chris Jones...starter
(3)CB-Keivarae Russell...not on team
(4)S-Eric Murray...reserve
(6)CB-DJ White...not on team
(6)OLB-Dadi Nicolas...not on team

The Chiefs/fans hope to God Jones can break out at DE this year and get to the QB, because Bailey can't. He's been an ascending player since he's been here. Not sure wtf happened w/ the whole Russell situation, that was just weird to cut a fairly high pick like that. Not too many people expect a whole lot from Murray now that Sorensucks is inj. Anytime he's been on the field the guy gets his ass kicked, can't even beat out Sorensucks for a starting job, and many people are hoping Watts can sore up the depth chart. DJ White was a non-factor, and other that some preseason action and a few ST plays, Nicolas was also a non-factor.

2017
(2)OLB/DE-Tanoh Kpassagnon...reserve
(5)ILB-Ukeme Eligwe...reserve
(6)S-Leon McQuay...reserve

You could tell Chiefs are/were getting tired of waiting on Ford to develop so they drafted KPass early becaus he's a mutant in football pads, but very raw. Lot of people thought it was a reach for such a project. He's changing positions and showed improvement and at times flashes of outright dominance but he's stuck behind a Ford because he's still too inconsistent. I really hope we can see this guy unseat Ford. No one really expects anything from either Eligwe or McQuay, and after the ATL game, Eligwe should be on the damn cut bubble and Neimann should be ahead of him on depth chart.

2018
(2)OLB-Breeland Speaks...reserve
(3)NT-Derrick Nnadi...reserve
(3)OLB/S-Dorian O'Daniel...reserve
(4)S-Armani Watts...reserve
(6)CB-Tremon Smith...reserve(possible starting KR)

Obviously it's too early to tell anything at the moment, but personally I never liked the Speaks pick, I thought it was dumb to move up. I think he's slow, fat, and out of position. He had a couple pressures vs ATL, but with Peters being dealt, I think CB should have been the pick. Like the Nnadi pick, it address a need, not a huge fan of the O'Daniel pick, hopefully he ends up being good enough to see the field a lot considering a 3rd was spent on the guy, otherwise it's ****ing stupid to do that for a ST player. Watts was a pretty highly touted guy, so far he's been buried on the depth chart, made a few nice plays in ATL game, but due to lack of depth in this area, people look for him to make a push to start. Personally I hope he does...guy reminds me of Bob Sanders a little. Tremon Smith can increase his stock if he becomes a ST wonder, like Hill did. Guy is fast af, no more of this Akeem Hunt bullshit at KR. Even though there's lack of quality at the CB position, I'm not sure anyone's really expecting him to do much, but hopefully he progresses enough

But LOOOOTS of question marks w/ the D. Honestly I'm not expecting much. The combo of Sutton and lack of quality CB's and potentially lack of passrush is going to make for a long season. They're going to have to really focus on D personnel the next 2yrs AND replace Sutton if we expect the D to ever be good. Berry is 30(that came fast) and Houston isn't the same since 2014 and you're not going to convince me otherwise and both of them cost a fortune. What happens if Berry continues to have foot problems, isn't 100%, plays like ass or not at all? Is Houston worth $100M currently right now as we stand today? Both of these guys cost a fortune, they're not producing like they should for a variety of reasons and theres no one really to replace them with.

Prepare for a lot of track meets...and that's assuming Mahomes plays well and doesn't shit his pants in starting yr 1.

[staylor26]

When posting on CP, CoMo has failed miserably

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

One of the best? I don't know about that. Overall, better than average but then again, the draft is a crap shoot for everybody.

The problem is that Dorsey and Reid hit on guys like Hill and Kelce but missed on picks you absolutely cannot miss on. Their first rounders (outside of Mahomes) have been awful. In fact, the single biggest reason the defense is off is because of missing on Dee Ford. If Dee Ford was a 1st round pass rusher, the whole defense would look different.

To be fair, blowing high picks on shit defenders is not exclusive to the Reid era :

Recent evidence :
Glenn Dorsey
Tyson Jackson
Ryan Sims

[RealSNR]

Andy Reid doesn't ****ing draft guys.

Repeat after me, people.

He. Doesn't. ****ing. Draft. Players.

He has a hand in scouting. He reviews all the players the Chiefs scouts bring to him. But the relationship between the HC and the GM since Clark changed it has been that Reid coaches and the GM does the personnel shit and has final say in those matters.

DERP THAT'S WHAT YOU THINK SURE THAT'S JUST WHAT HE SAYS BUT WE ALL KNOW REID IS ACTUALLY PULLING THE STRINGS!

Uhhh... and you know this how? Because you think it's true?

[kccrow]

Dorsey did an incredibly shitty job at drafting defense, that part I can agree with (had you actually stated that).

Far too many "reaches" and picks based on measurements instead of football ability for my tastes.

I too thought Veach should have went secondary early in this draft, but I'm not writing off what he did too early. I did like Speaks alot coming out.

[JakeF]

Andy Reid believes in winning by scheme. He tends to ignore intensity,discipline and aggression. It's very hard to field a great defense with scheme only.

The team is soft because Andy Reid is soft. Being soft shows up more on defense.

Andy is the polar opposite of Marty

[KChiefs1]

Originally Posted by notorious

A team reflects it’s coach.

This is true.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by notorious

A team reflects it’s coach.

Some years though Andy Reid teams have shown resilience and become better as the year goes even on a 10 game winning stretch after going 1-6 and actually win a playoff game. Of course it does help when the other playoff team starts a Brian Hoyer and their star defensive player has pusy-itus that day but still a playoff victory to have.


I just think the players do respond well to criticism and they can feel the fans breathing on them from the stands that they better get their shit together.

[bricks]

Originally Posted by JakeF

Andy Reid believes in winning by scheme. He tends to ignore intensity,discipline and aggression. It's very hard to field a great defense with scheme only.

The team is soft because Andy Reid is soft. Being soft shows up more on defense.

Andy is the polar opposite of Marty

Funny you say that because this doesn’t just apply to defense but offense as well (ie offensive line). Marty fielded some of the best offensive lines in the league. I remember those days when they had big, nasty physical maulers on that Oline. Reid’s offensive lines are lacking in that aspect.

[bricks]

Also Marty had more fundamentally sound teams than Reid.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by bricks

Funny you say that because this doesn’t just apply to defense but offense as well (ie offensive line). Marty fielded some of the best offensive lines in the league. I remember those days when they had big, nasty physical maulers on that Oline. Reid’s offensive lines are lacking in that aspect.

ReId had Jon Runyan (sp?) In Philly, so he at least knows what they're supposed to look like...

[FloridaMan88]

Originally Posted by bricks

Also Marty had more fundamentally sound teams than Reid.

Marty's 1998 team was very "fundamentally sound".

Monday Night Meltdown anyone?

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by JakeF

Andy Reid believes in winning by scheme. He tends to ignore intensity,discipline and aggression. It's very hard to field a great defense with scheme only.

The team is soft because Andy Reid is soft. Being soft shows up more on defense.

Andy is the polar opposite of Marty

When Andy let Jim Johnson run his defenses in Philly, did those defenses have problems with intensity, discipline, and aggression?

I'm not so sure I'd pull the trigger on making it 100% an Andy problem. We don't know the conversations between Reid and Sutton last season or during the offseason so we can't assume he didn't light a fire under Sutton's ass. I'll wait and see what transpires during the regular season and if we see a lot of the same vanilla shit we saw last year, then I'll put more blame on Andy for not being up Sutton's ass enough about this or, better yet, canning his ass.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by bricks

Funny you say that because this doesn’t just apply to defense but offense as well (ie offensive line). Marty fielded some of the best offensive lines in the league. I remember those days when they had big, nasty physical maulers on that Oline. Reid’s offensive lines are lacking in that aspect.

And I'd fully expect that. Reid uses alot of gap blocking and zone blocking, which requires more athletic lineman that can get out in space to pull, reach, and trap. You won't see a bunch of 360 pound mammoths on this line while he's here.

[Chiefshrink]

Originally Posted by JakeF

Andy Reid believes in winning by scheme. He tends to ignore intensity,discipline and aggression. It's very hard to field a great defense with scheme only.

The team is soft because Andy Reid is soft. Being soft shows up more on defense.

Andy is the polar opposite of Marty

Agreed except that I think our o-line is softer but to your point we are a very soft team on both sides of the ball.

[Chiefshrink]

Originally Posted by kccrow

When Andy let Jim Johnson run his defenses in Philly, did those defenses have problems with intensity, discipline, and aggression?

I'm not so sure I'd pull the trigger on making it 100% an Andy problem. We don't know the conversations between Reid and Sutton last season or during the offseason so we can't assume he didn't light a fire under Sutton's ass. I'll wait and see what transpires during the regular season and if we see a lot of the same vanilla shit we saw last year, then I'll put more blame on Andy for not being up Sutton's ass enough about this or, better yet, canning his ass.

With all due respect AR has had 5 going on 6 yrs and had Dorsey fired in the process not that he didn't deserve it( cap issues). The buck stops with AR IMHO.