Do we want DeHop?

[ROYC75]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...9536dcd3&ei=21


Story by Andrew Gould




The Kansas City Chiefs won the Super Bowl without a star wide receiver, but they could reportedly make an elite offense even scarier by acquiring DeAndre Hopkins.

NFL insider Benjamin Albright told PHNX Cardinals that Kansas City is the "primary suitor" for Hopkins. He doesn't know the draft compensation the Cardinals would receive, but he said it's more likely they get a second-round pick than a first.

After the 2022 season, theScore's Jordan Schultz reported that the Cardinals plan to trade Hopkins this offseason.

Arizona hired a new general manager and head coach after a disappointing four-win season, and Hopkins is set to make $19.45 million (with a $30.75 million cap hit) in 2023. The Cardinals could seek a clean slate by moving the three-time All-Pro wideout, who turns 31 in June.

Hopkins began his Cardinals career by tallying 1,407 yards and six touchdowns in 2020. However, multiple lower body injuries limited him to 10 games in 2021, and he served a six-game suspension to start the 2022 season for violating the NFL's PED policy.

Yet he remains an impact player when on the field. Hopkins totaled 474 receiving yards in six full games with quarterback Kyler Murray last season.

Now imagine what he can accomplish when catching passes from Patrick Mahomes.

The Chiefs flourished without a star replacement for Tyreek Hill, but they could still benefit by solidifying the position this offseason. JuJu Smith-Schuster is a free agent after garnering 78 catches for 933 yards on a one-year deal. The depth chart features several talented question marks in Mecole Hardman, Kadarius Toney, and Marquez Valdes-Scantling.

Adding Hopkins could be great news for Kansas City, but terrible for all opposing defenses.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Do we want a high priced prima donna?

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I don’t think that’s his point. Andy Reid has proven over time he can elevate average to worse receivers in his system. He has had a spotty record of getting great to elite receivers especially developing his own. He had a decent run at the end of Philly after years of guys like thrash/pinkston/FredEx. He has not to date developed a single decent WR since drafting tyreek hill.

So yeah, we will be more than fine. But historically we can’t put a lot of blind faith in it. Hasn’t been one of his stronger suits.

Spotty in ONE actual significant investment attempt in YEARS- Hardman. That's it.

The Chiefs simply didn't invest much during the Hill years in drafting WR's. Now in the last 13 months, they have.

Believing that a hall of famer coach, unanimously considered the preeminent offensive mind in football can't pick or develop WRs is nonsense.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Spotty in ONE actual significant investment attempt in YEARS- Hardman. That's it.

The Chiefs simply didn't invest much during the Hill years in drafting WR's. Now in the last 13 months, they have.

Believing that a hall of famer coach, unanimously considered the preeminent offensive mind in football can't pick or develop WRs is nonsense.

I think Veach has realized that to keep the pipeline of cheap young WR's going, he has to draft a WR in round 1 or 2 every year.

[SHOWTIME]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I don’t think that’s his point. Andy Reid has proven over time he can elevate average to worse receivers in his system. He has had a spotty record of getting great to elite receivers especially developing his own. He had a decent run at the end of Philly after years of guys like thrash/pinkston/FredEx. He has not to date developed a single decent WR since drafting tyreek hill.

So yeah, we will be more than fine. But historically we can’t put a lot of blind faith in it. Hasn’t been one of his stronger suits.

Andy Reid is the best coach in the NFL. He has proven to be successful wherever he goes. Can’t say the same for Belichick.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Spotty in ONE actual significant investment attempt in YEARS- Hardman. That's it.

The Chiefs simply didn't invest much during the Hill years in drafting WR's. Now in the last 13 months, they have.

Believing that a hall of famer coach, unanimously considered the preeminent offensive mind in football can't pick or develop WRs is nonsense.

So either they didn’t prioritize it or they did a bad job of developing. Neither should’ve been the case. Sammy Watkins’ contract was specifically designed to be easy to cut so we could develop our own. But it’s been a gap. And arguably would’ve been a giant difference maker in 2021 as losing Sammy Watkins was more devastating than we imagined. WR is a position where you can have 4-5 guys contribute in a big way and we didn’t find a single option even after knowing Watkins was completely unreliable healthwise

Nobody disputes that Andy is an offense mastermind. That doesn’t mean he’s nailed every position. Bellichicks had many years with bad WRs, RBs, etc… I think most would agree that these two coaches have been mostly consistent in finding good TEs, OL, and of course a GOAT caliber qb. Reid being more successful consistently finding RBs.

Of course he CAN and I’m mostly good with our current WR pipeline. But it can’t be ignored but he is certainly not beyond reproach. And the stakes are that much higher since we’ve committed to not using first round picks or big $ (for now) to find WR1 caliber talent.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by SHOWTIME

Andy Reid is the best coach in the NFL. He has proven to be successful wherever he goes. Can’t say the same for Belichick.

Nobody is saying he isn’t. I think he’s the GOAT and that includes bellichick. That doesn’t mean he has a great history with WRs. We’ve only had one true WR draft pick hit in the KC era and his WRs were pretty bad in Philly until they landed desean Jackson. In the process he’s also landed a bunch of pro bowl RBs, OL and HOF TEs, and had great qb play throughout so it’s covered up some of that.

Which goes again to the idea that he can excel without WRs. That doesn’t mean this offense wouldn’t be much better once they land one. Reid didn’t make a Super Bowl until he brought in TO after years of really bad WRs.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

OR- maybe we have weapons already on hand and the scouting was spot on and the coaching staff will have them ready to kick ass.

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

What? You actually believe we're screwed? You REALLY think that?

Oh my man.

You still don't think these guys know what they're doing.

Okay, after rereading my response, I can see how you came to this conclusion.

However, that's not what I meant.


I should've bolded the last phrase "and the scouting was spot on and the coaching staff will have them ready to kick ass"


That's really what I was referring to, and there's an unsaid qualifier that I should've put in there, which should've been "in 2023."


While I have every faith that Andy and his staff can find good players, it's a fact that they have historically taken their time bringing them along. And that timeframe has been pretty consistent when it comes to WRs at between two to three seasons.

Now, if a player really comes along it seems like they go a little faster, but outside of Toney, I don't see a WR that probably makes that leap this season.

And again, let's be brutally honest; Toney probably isn't going to play 17 games in 2023, right?

And Skyy probably isn't ready to just step into that role, when Toney does go down for however many weeks, or become the WR1 in this offense in just his second year.

So no, I'm not saying they're screwed. I'm saying that in 2023 the WR room has a hole in it that they will struggle with if Toney gets hurt, and the rest of the WRs progress as every other Chiefs WR room has in Andy's tenure.

Which is to say, in two or three seasons. But there's no historical precedent for Skyy or Rice becoming 1,000 yard/10 TD WRs at this stage of their development.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Okay, after rereading my response, I can see how you came to this conclusion.

However, that's not what I meant.


I should've bolded the last phrase "and the scouting was spot on and the coaching staff will have them ready to kick ass"


That's really what I was referring to, and there's an unsaid qualifier that I should've put in there, which should've been "in 2023."


While I have every faith that Andy and his staff can find good players, it's a fact that they have historically taken their time bringing them along. And that timeframe has been pretty consistent when it comes to WRs at between two to three seasons.

Now, if a player really comes along it seems like they go a little faster, but outside of Toney, I don't see a WR that probably makes that leap this season.

And again, let's be brutally honest; Toney probably isn't going to play 17 games in 2023, right?

And Skyy probably isn't ready to just step into that role, when Toney does go down for however many weeks, or become the WR1 in this offense in just his second year.

So no, I'm not saying they're screwed. I'm saying that in 2023 the WR room has a hole in it that they will struggle with if Toney gets hurt, and the rest of the WRs progress as every other Chiefs WR room has in Andy's tenure.

Which is to say, in two or three seasons. But there's no historical precedent for Skyy or Rice becoming 1,000 yard/10 TD WRs at this stage of their development.

Bah, I say

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Bah, I say

Lol, I know. In a perfect world, Toney plays 17 games, sees 120 targets and catches 80 balls along with 10 TDs, Skyy sees 80-90 targets for another 800 yds/6 TDs, and Rice just shocks CP with an unprecedented rookie debut season with 80 targets/700 yds/6 TDs.


But those are looong odds.


It's much more likely that Toney won't play 17 games, that if he plays in 11 games it'll be the first time in his college/pro career to do so.

That Skyy will be a typical 2nd year WR in Andy's offense and see about 60 targets/550 yards, and that Rice will see maybe 50 targets.

I mean, it's kind of been the blueprint in Andy's 1st-/2nd-year WR development program for a long time now.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Lol, I know. In a perfect world, Toney plays 17 games, sees 120 targets and catches 80 balls along with 10 TDs, Skyy sees 80-90 targets for another 800 yds/6 TDs, and Rice just shocks CP with an unprecedented rookie debut season with 80 targets/700 yds/6 TDs.


But those are looong odds.


It's much more likely that Toney won't play 17 games, that if he plays in 11 games it'll be the first time in his college/pro career to do so.

That Skyy will be a typical 2nd year WR in Andy's offense and see about 60 targets/550 yards, and that Rice will see maybe 50 targets.

I mean, it's kind of been the blueprint in Andy's 1st-/2nd-year WR development program for a long time now.

There's no blueprint, other than it usually takes a year to get into the flow of this offense for just about anyone.

We've not had a group of high picks at WR...well, ever. Certainly not in Mahomes'time. We now have 3, two of which are in year two.

There's no blueprint. There's no precedent. All of the negative scaredy cat stuff is silly.

Veach, Reid, and Mahomes are all confident. We should be excited to see the next group of stars develop before our very eyes. How good can they be? Will it be Toney? Skyy? Rice? Who's going to show out and rise to the top?

My money's on Skyy. And Rice as the season goes on. Toney's injury situation gives me pause.

I'm not counting on it, but I'm rooting for Justyn Ross too. Just because I love a good story.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

There's no blueprint, other than it usually takes a year to get into the flow of this offense for just about anyone.

We've not had a group of high picks at WR...well, ever. Certainly not in Mahomes'time. We now have 3, two of which are in year two.

There's no blueprint. There's no precedent. All of the negative scaredy cat stuff is silly.

Veach, Reid, and Mahomes are all confident. We should be excited to see the next group of stars develop before our very eyes. How good can they be? Will it be Toney? Skyy? Rice? Who's going to show out and rise to the top?

My money's on Skyy. And Rice as the season goes on. Toney's injury situation gives me pause.

I'm not counting on it, but I'm rooting for Justyn Ross too. Just because I love a good story.

Well, except there is precedent, throughout Andy's 20+ career as HC. Young/inexperienced WRs don't typically take over starting roles in just their 2nd year in Andy's history. It's not a hard and fast rule, but there's certainly plenty of evidence.

And I'm just as excited as anyone to see what Toney/Skyy/Rice can do. Particularly Toney, but 'm a little biased.

I'm just not banking on the idea that they'll all show out big in 2023.

I think Rice will be brought along in the same measured fashion that every young WR has been in Andy's career. And you said it yourself; young WRs usually take at least a year to "get into the flow of this offense for just about anyone."

So no real reason to believe anything else about Rice's development/performance this year, right?




Skyy should approach/slightly exceed Hardman's 2nd year numbers. That would be a big jump for him. And I think that's a lot more realistic than predicting that Skyy will post 1,000 yards and 8+ TDs.


Regardless of whether Toney can stay healthy, if Rice catches 40-45 balls and Skyy posts 2nd-year Mecole numbers, that will be a big win for KC.


But if Toney can't stay healthy . . .

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Well, except there is precedent, throughout Andy's 20+ career as HC. Young/inexperienced WRs don't typically take over starting roles in just their 2nd year in Andy's history. It's not a hard and fast rule, but there's certainly plenty of evidence.

And I'm just as excited as anyone to see what Toney/Skyy/Rice can do. Particularly Toney, but 'm a little biased.

I'm just not banking on the idea that they'll all show out big in 2023.

I think Rice will be brought along in the same measured fashion that every young WR has been in Andy's career. And you said it yourself; young WRs usually take at least a year to "get into the flow of this offense for just about anyone."

So no real reason to believe anything else about Rice's development/performance this year, right?




Skyy should approach/slightly exceed Hardman's 2nd year numbers. That would be a big jump for him. And I think that's a lot more realistic than predicting that Skyy will post 1,000 yards and 8+ TDs.


Regardless of whether Toney can stay healthy, if Rice catches 40-45 balls and Skyy posts 2nd-year Mecole numbers, that will be a big win for KC.


But if Toney can't stay healthy . . .

Except, like I've been arguing about all of your anecdotal evidence, it ignores context.

Andy's WR's don't make a jump in year two? Well when is the last time he had two high picks in year two with no established veterans in front of them, and with a generational QB not only throwing them the ball, but literally helping teach them the ins and outs of what he wants all spring?

Because the answer is... never. He's never had all of that.

And Veach has been busy, stocking the WR room with high picks, and you know Andy had to sign off on it, and Mahomes is excited, and you know...so am I. And you might oughta be too. This is going to be a lot of fun!

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Except, like I've been arguing about all of your anecdotal evidence, it ignores context.

Andy's WR's don't make a jump in year two? Well when is the last time he had two high picks in year two with no established veterans in front of them, and with a generational QB not only throwing them the ball, but literally helping teach them the ins and outs of what he wants all spring?

Because the answer is... never. He's never had all of that.

And Veach has been busy, stocking the WR room with high picks, and you know Andy had to sign off on it, and Mahomes is excited, and you know...so am I. And you might oughta be too. This is going to be a lot of fun!

See, I never said they wouldn't make a jump in year 2. I said the jump might not be exponential, or the jump might be smaller than what some hope for. I expect Skyy to improve, I've always said that. I just don't expect 1,000 yards/10 TDs from him in 2023. I don't believe that's fair.

And likewise, in 2023, i don't expect Rice to have a OROY type season either. If we're honest about him, he comes with a ton of potential but also several real weaknesses to his game, i.e., his releases and the fact that he drops a lot of balls for no real reason. Do I think that can be fixed? Absolutely. But I also think they might take more than one camp/preseason to fix.


Basically, I'm not putting all my eggs in one 2023 basket, that's all.

And honestly, I doubt Andy/Veach are either.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

There's no blueprint, other than it usually takes a year to get into the flow of this offense for just about anyone.

We've not had a group of high picks at WR...well, ever. Certainly not in Mahomes'time. We now have 3, two of which are in year two.

There's no blueprint. There's no precedent. All of the negative scaredy cat stuff is silly.

Veach, Reid, and Mahomes are all confident. We should be excited to see the next group of stars develop before our very eyes. How good can they be? Will it be Toney? Skyy? Rice? Who's going to show out and rise to the top?

My money's on Skyy. And Rice as the season goes on. Toney's injury situation gives me pause.

I'm not counting on it, but I'm rooting for Justyn Ross too. Just because I love a good story.

It’s not scaredy cat stuff. Ross and Toney for now are Sammy Watkins who can’t be relied upon for a full season until we see otherwise.

Skyy has potential but in many scenarios may have to make a leap to WR1 if Toney can’t go.

Rice, given Reid’s history, will need time to develop.

Mvs is not a wr you can rely on from week to week.

I get the idea of developing the room. But that’s a lot of question marks you can heal up with a single bandaid. I think finding a WR1 is really hard especially when you’re relying on the pick 50s to find your guys. I think we’re on our way to a deep wr room and a lot of real good potential WR2s with an outside shot at a WR1. And no I don’t think we should even remotely settle for giving the best qb in sports anything short of a bonafide, legit WR1. I’m not worried about the potential of our wr room or playing them. I am bothered however by the contentness that mahomes should have to settle for anything less simply because he’s great.

[RunKC]

The Bills aren’t overpaying either. A surprise team could land him if he cares that much about money

"As for the Buffalo Bills and DeAndre Hopkins, the way it was explained to me, is people doubt he will wind up in Buffalo. They never say never, but if he wants his money I don't think he'll get it in Buffalo." -@AdamSchefter at about the 6:30 point of his latest podcast.…

— Ryan Talbot (@RyanTalbotBills) May 30, 2023

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Adam Schefter believes the Chiefs are the leader for DeAndre Hopkins, who may take his time because his market in the NFL might be as high as what he (and the public) believes it should be. Notes that Bills, Patriots, and Browns also in the mix. https://t.co/CWMnIHYeM6

— Hayden Winks (@HaydenWinks) May 30, 2023