Anthony Lynn says Chargers are going back to Tyrod

[staylor26]

Anthony Lynn elaborating on why Tyrod Taylor is still his starter: "There's a lot we didn't get done with Justin on the field yesterday. He's a backup for a reason." #Chargers

— Daniel Popper (@danielrpopper) September 21, 2020

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by RunKC

I actually agree with this move. Herbert didn’t have OTA’s, he didn’t have real practices and he never took a single snap under center at Oregon per Nantz on the broadcast.

I get it. He looked good. But most of that was our own goddamn doing. Hitchens blowing the RB assignment by almost 35 yards, Thornhill missing an easy INT. We also didn’t know he was playing so we had zero prep or knowledge about the kid. Truthfully the kid got lucky.

They have to seriously dumb down the playbook for him bc he has very little experience or knowledge. If this was a normal year, then year I’d say do it, but he’s still very green mentally.

I would try to stretch this out til about mid season. Give Herbert more time to learn the playbook.

That's a fair point. The OTAs no, but maybe drilling into him running outside of the shotgun makes sense

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

If that's the case run the offense like Joe burrow. A ton of well executed short, makeable passes. Or the way the steelers kid gloved big Ben his rookie year. That I get. Herbert's floor is tyrod Taylor. So you get to develop a rookie and very good chance by seasons end you get a much better qb. Its odd to hitch your wagon to a 31 year old qb who built a mediocre career out of running the ball.

Cleveland made the qb change with tyrod and baker almost led them to an improbable playoff berth. They probably wish they could get those 2 gross weeks with tyrod back.

How does slapping training wheels on Herbert and limping your offense along help the Chargers OR Justin Herbert?

I'm not saying keep him on the pine all year - I'm saying that another 6-8 weeks as a backup won't fundamentally alter his trajectory and in fact may speed his long-term development along by allowing him to focus on learning the technical aspects of quarterbacking AND the overarching concepts of an NFL offense.

Your plan is playing Herbert just to play him. It doesn't make the Chargers better and it doesn't make Herbert better. It just plays the rookie because he's there.

You don't take a kid as green as Herbert is and try to play his slice while trying to correct it on the fly.

Let the kid learn and give him his live-fire run in the latter half of the season. The Chargers are better in the near and long term that way and Justin Herbert will likely benefit over any meaningful timeline from it as well.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yeah, I kinda wonder if some of this "Herbert was God!" is a result of Romo really fueling it during the broadcast. He's blabbing about Herbert moving Fenton with his eyes but it looked to me like Fenton just kinda lost where he was on the field. And it was CLEARLY a designed play - you telling me a 10 year veteran in Taylor (who's always been steady and even once made a pro-bowl) can't execute a simple look-off? There was nothing remarkable about that play - Fenton just didn't play the coverage terribly well.

I mean...he was fine. But the throw he made in the 3rd quarter right past Mathieu (I think to Allen) on 3rd and 10 was the only throw where I thought "damn, that was a baller-ass throw right there..."

Then he throws 2 incompletions and the drive stalls w/ a FG. And the very next drive he unquestionably ****ed up and that pick is what allowed the Chiefs to stay alive. If he just tucks that ball he probably runs it to the 20 and that's absolutely what Taylor would've done.

I re-watched the game last night and really, Herbert was okay. I mostly just kept coming away from drive after drive surprised by how little life the Chiefs showed.

I don't think Herbert did much to show that he's some led-pipe cinch to win more games than Taylor over the next several weeks. And ultimately I think he can still learn a lot in that period before you hand him the reigns down the stretch.

As you said, the TD throw was 100% Fenton reacting to the up man and vacating his deep 3rd zone. It was nice throw but the dude was wide open because Fenton didn't get deep enough.

Furthermore, Herbert's terrible interception was likely more of a factor in losing the game than any of Lynn's play calling decisions.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

As you said, the TD throw was 100% Fenton reacting to the up man and vacating his deep 3rd zone. It was nice throw but the dude was wide open because Fenton didn't get deep enough.

Furthermore, Herbert's terrible interception was likely more of a factor in losing the game than any of Lynn's play calling decisions.

Right.

The two most critical plays of the game, at least in terms of Herbert impacting the outcomes, were negatives for Herbert. The pick was inexcusable and the 3rd down play was excusable BECAUSE he's so young but also as demonstrative of anything as to why he needs more seasoning on the bench.

Those plays can't happen for a defense-first team w/ any sort of playoff aspirations. And with that defense, it's clear that Lynn thinks they can be a post-season squad.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

If that's the case run the offense like Joe burrow. A ton of well executed short, makeable passes. Or the way the steelers kid gloved big Ben his rookie year. That I get. Herbert's floor is tyrod Taylor. So you get to develop a rookie and very good chance by seasons end you get a much better qb. Its odd to hitch your wagon to a 31 year old qb who built a mediocre career out of running the ball.

Cleveland made the qb change with tyrod and baker almost led them to an improbable playoff berth. They probably wish they could get those 2 gross weeks with tyrod back.

Herbert's floor is NOT Tyrod Taylor. Taylor may not have the flashy downfield stats but he owns a career TD-INT ratio of nearly THREE to 1.

Herbert's floor could easily be 1:3.

Turnovers are critically important in the NFL and Herbert already committed one that had a direct influence on a loss.

[Mecca]

I thought Herbert played pretty well for a guy making his first start, at the same time he faced a defense missing half it's lineup that didn't prepare to face him at all so that plays in too.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

How does slapping training wheels on Herbert and limping your offense along help the Chargers OR Justin Herbert?

I'm not saying keep him on the pine all year - I'm saying that another 6-8 weeks as a backup won't fundamentally alter his trajectory and in fact may speed his long-term development along by allowing him to focus on learning the technical aspects of quarterbacking AND the overarching concepts of an NFL offense.

Your plan is playing Herbert just to play him. It doesn't make the Chargers better and it doesn't make Herbert better. It just plays the rookie because he's there.

You don't take a kid as green as Herbert is and try to play his slice while trying to correct it on the fly.

Let the kid learn and give him his live-fire run in the latter half of the season. The Chargers are better in the near and long term that way and Justin Herbert will likely benefit over any meaningful timeline from it as well.

You can't get greener than Carson wentz and Josh Allen. Herbert isn't going to be ruined unless hes easily rattled or his mechanics are a complete mess. Doubt that's the case. He is way less green than mahomes was. He gives the team a better chance of winning now than tyrod and the in game experience is incredibly valuable. And he has a perfect situation where the team can help him out. I just don't see the downside of playing him. It's just not as risky these days to immediately throw a qb into the fire.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Herbert's floor is NOT Tyrod Taylor. Taylor may not have the flashy downfield stats but he owns a career TD-INT ratio of nearly THREE to 1.

Herbert's floor could easily be 1:3.

Turnovers are critically important in the NFL and Herbert already committed one that had a direct influence on a loss.

I said this back when we had Smith - someone explain to me the difference between Tyrod Taylor and Alex Smith. They're the same damn guy.

The 2015 Chiefs after Charles went down are such a good analogue for that Chargers squad. A deep, talented secondary with a strong pass-rush and a dink/dunk offense led by a safe quarterback throwing to a technician of a WR (Maclin v. Allen) and an athletic TE (young Kelce vs. Henry).

The Chiefs used a backfield rotation of West/Ward (a poor man's Ekeler/Jackson) to complement their underneath passing and leaned into a strong defensive front to win 11 straight games, win a post-season game and at could've put a real scare into NE had Maclin been healthy and forced BB to be more honest in how he covered TK.

If you threw 2015 Alex Smith on the 2020 Chargers, they'd be a tough out. And in Tyrod Taylor that's almost exactly what you're doing. Moreover, Houston was hurt in 2015 and the Chiefs didn't have a Mike Williams. AND the Chargers RBs are quite a bit better than ours were. The Chargers almost certainly have more raw talent on both sides of the ball than the 2015 Chiefs had.

I just don't understand this idea that Herbert, who made two catastrophic rookie mistakes, is clearly going to be no worse than Taylor for the next several weeks. That's just not accurate. And by sitting him for a bit, you're not impacting his long-term development, especially in a season w/ a truncated off-season.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

You can't get greener than Carson wentz and Josh Allen. Herbert isn't going to be ruined unless hes easily rattled or his mechanics are a complete mess. Doubt that's the case. He is way less green than mahomes was. He gives the team a better chance of winning now than tyrod and the in game experience is incredibly valuable. And he has a perfect situation where the team can help him out. I just don't see the downside of playing him. It's just not as risky these days to immediately throw a qb into the fire.

Why? How?

What did he do on Sunday that Taylor doesn't do? None of his scoring drives were beyond Taylor's ability and both of his major mistakes are mistakes that Taylor doesn't make.

What have you seen to suggest that he's clearly a superior option to Taylor?

Tyrod Taylor isn't Matt Cassel. He's not an actively bad quarterback. He's a veteran placeholder who will make your team exactly as good as it is.

The downside is EXACTLY what you saw in the 2nd half of that game Sunday when he was more responsible for the Chargers losing that ballgame than anything Anthony Lynn did. He simply was not as good as you seem to think he was and you're hand-waiving his mistakes while simultaneously saying "What's the worst that could happen" - uh...exactly what DID happen.

[htismaqe]

The Chiefs likely lose that game if Taylor is playing. The dump offs and running game were working early.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Why? How?

What did he do on Sunday that Taylor doesn't do? None of his scoring drives were beyond Taylor's ability and both of his major mistakes are mistakes that Taylor doesn't make.

What have you seen to suggest that he's clearly a superior option to Taylor?

Tyrod Taylor isn't Matt Cassel. He's not an actively bad quarterback. He's a veteran placeholder who will make your team exactly as good as it is.

The downside is EXACTLY what you saw in the 2nd half of that game Sunday when he was more responsible for the Chargers losing that ballgame than anything Anthony Lynn did. He simply was not as good as you seem to think he was and you're hand-waiving his mistakes while simultaneously saying "What's the worst that could happen" - uh...exactly what DID happen.

It's Smith Mahomes Syndrome.

The transition from Smith to Mahomes was so striking, Chiefs fan think every team should just get it over with and do it now.

We, as fans, have the luxury of looking at next year and the year's beyond and thinking "well, they won't win a Super Bowl this year, might as well punt".

That's just not how the NFL works.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

The Chiefs likely lose that game if Taylor is playing. The dump offs and running game were working early.

This is kinda what happened w/ my real-time thoughts on Lynn's decision to punt as well.

On first viewing, I thought Herbert did a lot to keep them alive in that game. On a second watch, I think you're probably right. Once I watched a little more closely (as opposed to trying to wrangle children around a pool and barbecue) I was able to actually review what happened instead of just listening to Romo wax poetically on the greatness of Justin Herbert.

And I realized that Herbert wasn't nearly as great as the commentary made him seem. He easily took as much off the table as he brought to it. Again, in that 2nd half he was a significant part of the problem for LAC.

[Perineum Ripper]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Herbert's floor is NOT Tyrod Taylor. Taylor may not have the flashy downfield stats but he owns a career TD-INT ratio of nearly THREE to 1.

Herbert's floor could easily be 1:3.

Turnovers are critically important in the NFL and Herbert already committed one that had a direct influence on a loss.

Well I know who could solve this problem and set us all straight. We have a member of this board who has stated, that he knows more than every head coach/gm. So we need to get Ublowjob or whatever his name is in here. He has stated he would take Veach to school on football knowledge.

[tooge]

Racist!

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I said this back when we had Smith - someone explain to me the difference between Tyrod Taylor and Alex Smith. They're the same damn guy.

The 2015 Chiefs after Charles went down are such a good analogue for that Chargers squad. A deep, talented secondary with a strong pass-rush and a dink/dunk offense led by a safe quarterback throwing to a technician of a WR (Maclin v. Allen) and an athletic TE (young Kelce vs. Henry).

The Chiefs used a backfield rotation of West/Ward (a poor man's Ekeler/Jackson) to complement their underneath passing and leaned into a strong defensive front to win 11 straight games, win a post-season game and at could've put a real scare into NE had Maclin been healthy and forced BB to be more honest in how he covered TK.

If you threw 2015 Alex Smith on the 2020 Chargers, they'd be a tough out. And in Tyrod Taylor that's almost exactly what you're doing.

I just don't understand this idea that Herbert, who made two catastrophic rookie mistakes, is clearly going to be no worse than Taylor for the next several weeks. That's just not accurate. And by sitting him for a bit, you're not impacting his long-term development, especially in a season w/ a truncated off-season.

I was cool with the decision to start Alex for one year. Alex is a way better QB than tyrod. Alex did actually give us an outside shot to win one, much as I was excited about Mahomes eventually taking over. It was respectful to Alex and made it easier to let him go. It took a ton of pressure off mahomes and Reid (Reid would have been crucified if mahomes wasn't nails from the get go). And in the end we ended up with great trade value. Theres quite a huge difference between replacing a franchise staple like Alex or Eli vs replacing a stopgap like Tyrod.

That's not even getting into mahomes being way more of a work in progress at the time.

The better example is the browns starting tyrod over baker a few years ago. They shouldn't have done that and arguably it could have costed them a playoff berth.