Kareem Hunt or Sammy Watkins?

[JakeF]

Does our offense miss Kareem Hunt or Sammy Watkins more?

[oldman]

Based on yesterday's game alone, hands down Watkins. Had Ware and Williams X 2 received more (or in the case of Williams X 2, any) reps last week, our run game by RBs would have been better.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Then I will submit that there's a whole lot of useless bellyaching going on in the thread about the Ravens. QB rushing yards don't equal an effective running game so the Ravens are absolutely screwed. Better let Debbie and the Downers know...

It does if it's part of your gameplan.

Are you going to suggest that Patrick Mahomes running the football ought be part of ours?

With Baltimore it matters because you know they're going to have Jackson running the football. If they want to subject their QB to that abuse, well bully for them. I damn sure am not inclined to do that with our boy and Reid isn't either.

Jackson gets designed runs. I'd say about 80% of Mahomes rush yards were not designed for him to run (he had a couple nice pulls on options that were). That's the distinction and it's a pretty clear one, IMO.

[CoMoChief]

Hunt...not even close.

Hunt was also an extension in the passing game.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

I guess Hunt, but not really either based on what I saw on Sunday.

With Mahomes as our QB and Reid's system, the weapons we still have our plenty good enough, and the average guy and/or brokedick player (Conley, Robinson, Ware) can be made to look a lot better than they really are.

I'll miss Hunt's ability to break tackles and his NEVER fumbling, but outside of that, meh. Watkins will be here this year and next and then cut, so he won't be around long anyway.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by TEX

I may not have been clear. I DONT want him to be counted on to lead the team in rushing, for fear of injury. I feel if that ever is the plan, then it's a very dumb plan IMO.

It wasn't even the plan yesterday, it just happened.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It does if it's part of your gameplan.

Are you going to suggest that Patrick Mahomes running the football ought be part of ours?

With Baltimore it matters because you know they're going to have Jackson running the football. If they want to subject their QB to that abuse, well bully for them. I damn sure am not inclined to do that with our boy and Reid isn't either.

Jackson gets designed runs. I'd say about 80% of Mahomes rush yards were not designed for him to run (he had a couple nice pulls on options that were). That's the distinction and it's a pretty clear one, IMO.

Patrick Mahomes being a THREAT to rush absolutely is part of the gameplan. Him being the leading rusher on the team certainly isn't.

Both are also true of the Ravens, by the way.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Patrick Mahomes being a THREAT to rush absolutely is part of the gameplan. Him being the leading rusher on the team certainly isn't.

Both are also true of the Ravens, by the way.

Nobody is spying Patrick Mahomes. Teams are spying Lamar Jackson.

There's a clear distinction. Mahomes legs have little/no impact on how teams defend us. Lamar Jackson's legs don't just impact the opposing gameplan, they dictate it.

That's the difference. If I'm an opposing DC right now, I just throw rush defense concerns out. I simply don't care - I take anything with 8 in the box and trash it. I play with 7 in the box only on 3rd downs. I'd spend almost my entire game in Nickel or worse and DARE Reid to bank on Spencer Ware getting his shoulders turned and knifing through a hole. He damn sure showed no ability to do that against the worst run defense in football on Sunday.

[Basileus777]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Nobody is spying Patrick Mahomes. Teams are spying Lamar Jackson.

There's a clear distinction. Mahomes legs have little/no impact on how teams defend us. Lamar Jackson's legs don't just impact the opposing gameplan, they dictate it.

That's the difference. If I'm an opposing DC right now, I just throw rush defense concerns out. I simply don't care - I take anything with 8 in the box and trash it. I play with 7 in the box only on 3rd downs. I'd spend almost my entire game in Nickel or worse and DARE Reid to bank on Spencer Ware getting his shoulders turned and knifing through a hole. He damn sure showed no ability to do that against the worst run defense in football on Sunday.

Teams were already playing the Chiefs this way.

[FloridaMan88]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

Hunt...not even close.

Hunt was also an extension in the passing game.

This.

The Chiefs weren't exactly a great rushing team with Hunt and they can still manufacture a decent enough running game with the likes of Ware/Williams and throw in an occasional gadget/option play with Hill/Mahomes.

They'll miss Hunt the most in the passing/screen game.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Nobody is spying Patrick Mahomes. Teams are spying Lamar Jackson.

There's a clear distinction. Mahomes legs have little/no impact on how teams defend us. Lamar Jackson's legs don't just impact the opposing gameplan, they dictate it.

That's because Patrick Mahomes can put the ball on a dime from the opposite 30-yard line. Defenses can afford to gameplay for Jackson's legs because that's all he has. There's a reason the Chiefs run so much RPO.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

That's the difference. If I'm an opposing DC right now, I just throw rush defense concerns out. I simply don't care - I take anything with 8 in the box and trash it. I play with 7 in the box only on 3rd downs. I'd spend almost my entire game in Nickel or worse and DARE Reid to bank on Spencer Ware getting his shoulders turned and knifing through a hole. He damn sure showed no ability to do that against the worst run defense in football on Sunday.

They prepped for this Raiders game for TWO WEEKS. Ware found out he was the starter late on FRIDAY. This is a guy who had almost identical numbers to Hunt before the injury. You're getting infected with Planetitis.

[SuperBowl4]

Originally Posted by dj56dt58

I'll put it this way..Clark ****ed up. And where did this exemption shit come from? It used to be a suspension which you could appeal and keep playing during the appeal. All a bunch of bs imo

Kareem Hunt did this to himself. How do you keep trying to spin this even after KH said the CHIEFS did the right thing by releasing him? Think about it.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Basileus777

Teams were already playing the Chiefs this way.

And Hunt would beat them with it. And after awhile, they'd pull a safety up, give Hill that single-high look and he'd torch them.

Did you see any single-high this week? I didn't. Ware couldn't even begin to punish them for playing back. Some want to say that Watkins is why Hill struggled but Hill's target's and production haven't generally slipped at all with Watkins off the field.

Meanwhile he was a virtual non-factor in the passing game yesterday apart from a drop and a missed shot downfield. Hunt's absence hurt him in a big way and will continue to do so, IMO. We'll play defenses that can scheme him out while not being so bad over the middle that Kelce can murder them like Oakland.

Oakland suuuuuucks, gents. And we were essentially left with playing 2-man football anyway.

That's a bad bad sign.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And Hunt would beat them with it. And after awhile, they'd pull a safety up, give Hill that single-high look and he'd torch them.

Did you see any single-high this week? I didn't. Ware couldn't even begin to punish them for playing back. Some want to say that Watkins is why Hill struggled but Hill's target's and production haven't generally slipped at all with Watkins off the field.

Meanwhile he was a virtual non-factor in the passing game yesterday apart from a drop and a missed shot downfield. Hunt's absence hurt him in a big way and will continue to do so, IMO. We'll play defenses that can scheme him out while not being so bad over the middle that Kelce can murder them like Oakland.

Oakland suuuuuucks, gents. And we were essentially left with playing 2-man football anyway.

That's a bad bad sign.

It seemed to me that Damien Williams was doing way more with this snaps.....than what Ware was doing with his.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Ware found out he was the starter late on FRIDAY. This is a guy who had almost identical numbers to Hunt before the injury. You're getting infected with Planetitis.

If you've watched Ware run the ball and think he's remotely capable of 'almost identical numbers' in a similar role, I just don't know what to say.

Ware is a good backup RB and nothing more. I suspect the FA market will bare that out this offseason. He's essentially CJ Anderson and Anderson's been a street FA for a bit now (who could sadly be an upgrade on Ware).

That says something and it ain't good.

Your point w/r/t gameplan cuts both ways. It PROVES that they can't do with Ware what they did with Hunt. And what they did with Hunt is what they preferred to do, otherwise he wouldn't have been the starter. Hunt and the offense with him in it was an obvious Plan A. Now there are ways they can manipulate the offense to make Ware more effective, but that means they're on Plan B there. They aren't doing exactly what they'd like to be doing.

It again gets back to the holistic impact the loss of Hunt has on this offense. If you take the gamplan that had Hunt in it and drop Ware in it, Ware simply isn't very good.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by The Pest

It seemed to me that Damien Williams was doing way more with this snaps.....than what Ware was doing with his.

A lot more. Because Williams could get himself upfield quickly enough to get to the first line before it closed. Ware just looked so unbelievably slow.