When do you have a "talk" with your child's Coach?

[petegz28]

So my Son is 8 years old and playing in competitive soccer. I will be the first to admit that on his team of 9 he probably ranks 6th or 7th. Maybe 5th on a good day. He is disciplined, works hard, knows his game but is just one of the slower kids and not the strongest shooter. Usually plays Left or Right Back.

The Coach has had a tendency to play him less than the others and generally I am okay with that because at times he plays quite a bit. Then some things happened and I am not real sure how to approach it.

In a tournament we won our first 2 games and were an automatic lock for the finals. The 3rd game literally meant absolutely nothing. My Son's Coach decided to play the "best players" into the ground and my Son got to play all of 10 minutes of a 50 minute game in a game that meant literally nothing. I was pissed but said nothing.

Then tonight at practice the Coach handed out MVP Pins to 5 of of the 8 kids that were there and one to a kid who was practicing with us but not on our team. He said they "tried hard" the last game. The irony is my Son played most of the last game and more than just about anyone else, and one of the kids that didn't get a pin had 2 goals. So the "they tried hard" crap doesn't seem to make sense.

I thought that was a pretty shitty way to handle that situation as we had 2 subs that game, it was very hot and all the kids played their ass off and we won 7-1.

Our Coach is 22, and it's his first year coaching a team. I try to keep that in mind. I also have to keep in mind that if I piss him off he could plant my Son on the bench the rest of the season. Also with tryouts for next season coming up in a couple of weeks, I'd hate to do something to jeopardize my Son.

On the other hand, I see it as I am paying good $'s to play in this league and a dick move is a dick move.

Anyone else been in a similar situation?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Iowanian

This seems like a good place to say, that if I ever found myself upset about soccer....I'd punch myself in the dickhole.

Kids soccer, as much as I hate the game in general, is actually pretty fun. They develop FAST. From a game to game basis you can see them figuring things out.

Same daughter's soccer team is GOOD. They've given up 3 goals all year (zero through the first 5 games), and score something like 5/gm. They've just played together for awhile so they know each other. But I saw one of their girls last week have a ball getting away from her towards the opposing box, she ran it down and does a little pop stop on top of the ball with one foot, uses that foot to pivot over top of the ball, comes down in front of it and in one motion pirouette's to make a pass with her other foot right into the middle of the box where another teammate knew to be heading when she saw the play developing. Bam - right off the far post and in. It was an incredible play.

12 months ago she'd have tripped over the ball.

Honestly my daugher is probably about like Pete's kid - middle of the pack. In that same game she made a real nice move to get through the middle, got it down the sideline, created a clean breakaway and then tripped over her foot trying to change direction and get the ball to the middle. But at the same time, she was a clear tier below average last season and has probably improved more than any girl on the squad this year. She's not with the top 3/4 girls still, but she's firmly near the top of the middle group. And that's been a blast to watch that development this year. I was worried I wouldn't be able to let her move up with this team next year and I'm not concerned about that at all now. Because she just kept improving and that's pretty much the point.

Hell, even playing with her is fun now because she'll forearm shiver the hell out of me to create space and retain the ball. She's just learning how to play. And I really like her coach on this team a lot. Because he's done what he's supposed to do - he's teaching the girls how to play the game. And when you see them out there laughing at some squad they're rolling because it's a new team, he'll sit them down and remind them that last year THEY were the ones getting housed.

I enjoy youth soccer a ton more than I thought I would.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Kids soccer, as much as I hate the game in general, is actually pretty fun. They develop FAST. From a game to game basis you can see them figuring things out.

Same daughter's soccer team is GOOD. They've given up 3 goals all year (zero through the first 5 games), and score something like 5/gm. They've just played together for awhile so they know each other. But I saw one of their girls last week have a ball getting away from her towards the opposing box, she ran it down and does a little pop stop on top of the ball with one foot, uses that foot to pivot over top of the ball, comes down in front of it and in one motion pirouette's to make a pass with her other foot right into the middle of the box where another teammate knew to be heading when she saw the play developing. Bam - right off the far post and in. It was an incredible play.

12 months ago she'd have tripped over the ball.

Honestly my daugher is probably about like Pete's kid - middle of the pack. In that same game she made a real nice move to get through the middle, got it down the sideline, created a clean breakaway and then tripped over her foot trying to change direction and get the ball to the middle. But at the same time, she was a clear tier below average last season and has probably improved more than any girl on the squad this year. She's not with the top 3/4 girls still, but she's firmly near the top of the middle group. And that's been a blast to watch that development this year. I was worried I wouldn't be able to let her move up with this team next year and I'm not concerned about that at all now. Because she just kept improving and that's pretty much the point.

Hell, even playing with her is fun now because she'll forearm shiver the hell out of me to create space and retain the ball. She's just learning how to play. And I really like her coach on this team a lot. Because he's done what he's supposed to do - he's teaching the girls how to play the game. And when you see them out there laughing at some squad they're rolling because it's a new team, he'll sit them down and remind them that last year THEY were the ones getting housed.

I enjoy youth soccer a ton more than I thought I would.

Same with my daughter who’s 11. She’s grown so much in the last year at this new club that she loves the game again. We moved clubs because her coach before this had her regressing after a year.

There are shit coaches. People don’t seem to understand that. This isn’t rec soccer where you paid a $50 fee and you should just suck it up. This coach that Pete is talking about could cause his son to either lose interest in the game or cause his skills to decline if he isn’t teaching him anything. Pete has a right to be pissed.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by The Franchise

Same with my daughter who’s 11. She’s grown so much in the last year at this new club that she loves the game again. We moved clubs because her coach before this had her regressing after a year.

There are shit coaches. People don’t seem to understand that. This isn’t rec soccer where you paid a $50 fee and you should just suck it up. This coach that Pete is talking about could cause his son to either lose interest in the game or cause his skills to decline if he isn’t teaching him anything. Pete has a right to be pissed.

My twins coach (4 yrs old) is just such a coach. He's awful.

But there's a little boy on that team who's just a monster. Incredible player. Early in the year he was just rolling over everyone, scoring every goal. The games were pretty awful because the other team couldn't even get it past midfield before he'd steal it and score.

Starting about 4 weeks ago we noticed that he was hanging back on D. He was getting the ball then going to the corner and looking for passes. He was playing COMPLETELY differently and getting his teammates involved. Well we know his dad and are fairly similar in how we view this whole '4 year olds playing magnet ball thing'. I talked to him a bit and he was like "yeah, I had a talk with him about dialing it back and working on other skills that can help his teammates improve. It's hard because you want to teach them to be assertive but you can't have him doing what he was doing either..."

Well last week our 'regular' coach wasn't there so this same boy's dad stepped in. And suddenly he's running down the field with the little girl who's typically picking dandylions and getting kids to peel off the pile of toddlers to create passing lanes. He's telling kids to do something and when they don't, he goes and talks to them about it, shows them how to do it and then works with them to correct it.

Near the end of the 1st half my boy (who has the most hyperactive sense of right/wrong I've ever seen - that boy WILL get his pound of flesh if he feels he or his sisters have been wronged somehow) was trailing his sister. She'd made a nice little steal and was going towards the sideline. He was trying to run blocker and a kid came up and was pulling/shoving him. The ball goes out of bounds and the other kid kinda shoves him and then kicks near baby sister. So the boy just turns and kicks the shit out of him right in the shin. Kid collapses into a ball of tears. The 'substitute' coach walks over there, puts a hand on his shoulder, points to the sideline and says "you're done until I say you're not..."

****ing awesome. Then at halftime he takes Son number 1 over to the boy he kicked and made him apologize. The regular coach would've just ignored it. They're kids, dammit - coach 'em. Teach them stuff. I mean if you're not going to teach them "Don't be a dick" at LEAST teach them "The 2nd guy always gets caught..."

In one stupid game I saw that team improve more than they had all season. By the end of the game I told my wife I'd coach a team next year before I let the twins play for the clown that had been standing in front of the goal box pleading while his 'ringers' just mow kids down. I mean you don't have to know the intricacies of defensive alignments at that age - you just have to know how to freakin' teach kids. And really, it ain't that hard. They're kids. They're stupid. They're in awe of lightning bugs and loud noises. If you can't say or do something that they find worth listening to, you're REALLY bad at this.

Some coaches are bad coaches. Then again, some parents are shitheels. It's kinda hard to know the difference without being there.

[Iowanian]

When I've coached younger age groups, I've had 3 rules that I tell the kids and make them repeat at practices or before games.
1. have fun
2. do your best-try as hard as you can
3. If you do 1 and 2, good things will happen.

Some of the things above are not age appropriate, and that stuff is problematic.

I'm still on the fence about the value of the "highly competitive" travel stuff for kids under 10. It puts a lot of pressure on these kids and probably takes the fun out of it....and we wonder why there is such a drop off in participation when the kids get to the age to compete for their schools.

[Titty Meat]

Pete told his kid that his team won't sniff the playoffs after they lost last week

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

My twins coach (4 yrs old) is just such a coach. He's awful.

But there's a little boy on that team who's just a monster. Incredible player. Early in the year he was just rolling over everyone, scoring every goal. The games were pretty awful because the other team couldn't even get it past midfield before he'd steal it and score.

Starting about 4 weeks ago we noticed that he was hanging back on D. He was getting the ball then going to the corner and looking for passes. He was playing COMPLETELY differently and getting his teammates involved. Well we know his dad and are fairly similar in how we view this whole '4 year olds playing magnet ball thing'. I talked to him a bit and he was like "yeah, I had a talk with him about dialing it back and working on other skills that can help his teammates improve. It's hard because you want to teach them to be assertive but you can't have him doing what he was doing either..."

Well last week our 'regular' coach wasn't there so this same boy's dad stepped in. And suddenly he's running down the field with the little girl who's typically picking dandylions and getting kids to peel off the pile of toddlers to create passing lanes. He's telling kids to do something and when they don't, he goes and talks to them about it, shows them how to do it and then works with them to correct it.

Near the end of the 1st half my boy (who has the most hyperactive sense of right/wrong I've ever seen - that boy WILL get his pound of flesh if he feels he or his sisters have been wronged somehow) was trailing his sister. She'd made a nice little steal and was going towards the sideline. He was trying to run blocker and a kid came up and was pulling/shoving him. The ball goes out of bounds and the other kid kinda shoves him and then kicks near baby sister. So the boy just turns and kicks the shit out of him right in the shin. Kid collapses into a ball of tears. The 'substitute' coach walks over there, puts a hand on his shoulder, points to the sideline and says "you're done until I say you're not..."

****ing awesome. Then at halftime he takes Son number 1 over to the boy he kicked and made him apologize. The regular coach would've just ignored it. They're kids, dammit - coach 'em. Teach them stuff. I mean if you're not going to teach them "Don't be a dick" at LEAST teach them "The 2nd guy always gets caught..."

In one stupid game I saw that team improve more than they had all season. By the end of the game I told my wife I'd coach a team next year before I let the twins play for the clown that had been standing in front of the goal box pleading while his 'ringers' just mow kids down. I mean you don't have to know the intricacies of defensive alignments at that age - you just have to know how to freakin' teach kids. And really, it ain't that hard. They're kids. They're stupid. They're in awe of lightning bugs and loud noises. If you can't say or do something that they find worth listening to, you're REALLY bad at this.

Some coaches are bad coaches. Then again, some parents are shitheels. It's kinda hard to know the difference without being there.

Oh for sure. There are definitely shit coaches and a majority of parents are garbage at that age. All they want to do is win and their kid to score all the goals.

My daughters last coach that caused us to move clubs was a guy who had experience coaching high school girls. Everyone found that out and thought it would be awesome. Turns out he has no clue how to work with younger kids. Practices were him letting the girls goof around and when it came to games…..he would ask the girls what position they wanted to play that game. I heard that and was done. These kids need guidance and by that age….most kids have positions that their skills fit.

Needless to say, my 11 year old’s skills declined because there was never any technical work and it just became the kids kicking a ball around with no guidance. Every game was them getting their ass kicked. They won one game and that was because the coach was gone that day.

She’s thriving in her new club and she’s grown so much but she’s still behind the kids in her age group because she lost a year of development when the other girls didn’t.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by The Franchise

Oh for sure. There are definitely shit coaches and a majority of parents are garbage at that age. All they want to do is win and their kid to score all the goals.

My daughters last coach that caused us to move clubs was a guy who had experience coaching high school girls. Everyone found that out and thought it would be awesome. Turns out he has no clue how to work with younger kids. Practices were him letting the girls goof around and when it came to games…..he would ask the girls what position they wanted to play that game. I heard that and was done. These kids need guidance and by that age….most kids have positions that their skills fit.

Needless to say, my 11 year old’s skills declined because there was never any technical work and it just became the kids kicking a ball around with no guidance. Every game was them getting their ass kicked. They won one game and that was because the coach was gone that day.

She’s thriving in her new club and she’s grown so much but she’s still behind the kids in her age group because she lost a year of development when the other girls didn’t.

Yeah, I'll tap out on soccer around 10 because that's when you need to be able to identify and cultivate those individual skills to fit certain roles. That's beyond my pay grade (except I know one girl on my oldest kids team is a born center mid - absolute fireplug that goes 100 mph the whole game, fast as hell and physical).

I think it was Lalas that said years ago that USA Soccer's biggest problem is that they don't emphasize individual skills enough at younger levels. So they spend so much time focusing on scheme and fit that these players don't end up versatile enough to operate at high levels. I can see some truth to that.

And ultimately it's just a line I know I wouldn't be able to walk.

[ptlyon]

Originally Posted by Iowanian

I'm still on the fence about the value of the "highly competitive" travel stuff for kids under 10. It puts a lot of pressure on these kids and probably takes the fun out of it....and we wonder why there is such a drop off in participation when the kids get to the age to compete for their schools.

I only played tee ball growing up, two years. Pretty sure it was before all this travel league nonsense they have going on these days.

I quit before little league because quite frankly, I sucked. I mean I got better over the two years going from right field, to left, to 3rd. But man, I never ever have had an arm. Not bad with a glove but couldn't throw. And I knew it, so knew it wasn't for me, so I ended it there. A pickup game was fine but all the practices and games. I'd just rather be doing something else. I'm sure that's where a lot of kids are after years of doing it.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Iowanian

When I've coached younger age groups, I've had 3 rules that I tell the kids and make them repeat at practices or before games.
1. have fun
2. do your best-try as hard as you can
3. If you do 1 and 2, good things will happen.

Some of the things above are not age appropriate, and that stuff is problematic.

I'm still on the fence about the value of the "highly competitive" travel stuff for kids under 10. It puts a lot of pressure on these kids and probably takes the fun out of it....and we wonder why there is such a drop off in participation when the kids get to the age to compete for their schools.

The problem with highly competitive sports is the time demands. We're getting there with gymnastics (she spends 8 hours/week at the damn gym).

And you want them playing/doing as many things as they show an interest in. Well if you're in competitive soccer - you aren't going to have time for basketball. If you want to do high level softball, gymnastics is out.

And so many of those activities have components to them that will help in other sports. So you hate sacrificing one for the other. But ultimately the way youth sports have gone, you pretty much have to. I mean when the local HS Baseball team is coached by a guy who also coaches a competitive traveling team, how do you think you're gonna make the high school squad when that coach has 20 kids he knows trying out as well that he's worked with all summer and has worked with them for 3-4 years?

It's really a cruddy little conundrum. I guess the answer is club teams but that's not the full high school athletics experience either, IMO. I loved gamedays in high school; wearing the letter jacket and football jersey on Fridays and feeling like a big swinging dick even though I knew I was riding the bench. The comradery of coming in on Monday and talking about the game with your schoolmates is just different.

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by wutamess

Seems like you're piling on and whining. You know your son isn't the best. Mad because the coach won't give him playing time and mad he didn't get a trophy and other players did.

All true characteristics of a Karen. All of this could be avoided causing you to vent by just simply asking the coach, what your kid needs to work on to get better (that starts the conversation). Instead, you say nothing cause you don't want to "rock the boat" for your kid going forward.

Newflash... The organization/other coaches knows your kid. The sooner you speak up, the more answers you'll get and you'll be able to set your expectations. Just going in every year hoping things get better by winging it, is the same thing as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Either move him down to get more playing time til he develops or ask the coach some questions. Sounds like it can't get any worse.
It's simple: Make shit happen for him and stop putting things in others hands.

Sounds like you haven't read what I said but that's not anyting new with you.

[Steron]

Originally Posted by petegz28

I generally don't want to get involved but when you see your kid getting discouraged because of dick moves it's hard to stay silent.

I tell my Son to use it as fuel to get better but still wanna tell the Coach he is being a douche to the kids.

I feel you. A couple of years ago my son was playing middle school baseball. He wasn't starting much. That's a whole other story. One of the last games, his team was murdering the other team. Instead of letting the non-starters play, he had his starters go hit opposite hand. I was pretty pissed about it.

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by Iowanian

When I've coached younger age groups, I've had 3 rules that I tell the kids and make them repeat at practices or before games.
1. have fun
2. do your best-try as hard as you can
3. If you do 1 and 2, good things will happen.

Some of the things above are not age appropriate, and that stuff is problematic.

I'm still on the fence about the value of the "highly competitive" travel stuff for kids under 10. It puts a lot of pressure on these kids and probably takes the fun out of it....and we wonder why there is such a drop off in participation when the kids get to the age to compete for their schools.

I agree with all of this. And I have told my son from day 1 that if you want the most or more playing time you have to earn it. But there is a difference between lesr playing time and no playing time and how you go about it. My general concern, however, is not about playing time but how the guy coaches overall. My son can play pretty much anywhere you put him. I would say at this point he is a bit of a jack of all trades, master of none, type.

But when you have 4 kids on the bench, 3 go in as a sub and 3 come out and the 3 that came out go back in and 1 kid is still sitting there never seeing any time it starts to approach the bullshit level. At that point you aren't being a coach of a little league team. You're just being a dick. And to be bluntly honest, while my kid is one of the slowest, he is also one of the most disciplined, one of the best with his foot skills, one of the best passers, never gets in trouble for goofing off at practice, always listens and rarely gets yelled at in a game for being out of position or not knowing what to do.

[The Franchise]

I love the “just move him down so he’ll get more playing time” idea.

Are you not aware of how comp sports works? He’s just supposed to walk up to the coach and ask him to move his kid down? . That isn’t a ****ing thing.

[wutamess]

Originally Posted by petegz28

Sounds like you haven't read what I said but that's not anyting new with you.

/KanyeShrug

All I see is complaint after complaint and you not doing anything about it. Am I wrong?

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by petegz28

I agree with all of this. And I have told my son from day 1 that if you want the most or more playing time you have to earn it. But there is a difference between lesr playing time and no playing time and how you go about it. My general concern, however, is not about playing time but how the guy coaches overall. My son can play pretty much anywhere you put him. I would say at this point he is a bit of a jack of all trades, master of none, type.

But when you have 4 kids on the bench, 3 go in as a sub and 3 come out and the 3 that came out go back in and 1 kid is still sitting there never seeing any time it starts to approach the bullshit level. At that point you aren't being a coach of a little league team. You're just being a dick. And to be bluntly honest, while my kid is one of the slowest, he is also one of the most disciplined, one of the best with his foot skills, one of the best passers, never gets in trouble for goofing off at practice, always listens and rarely gets yelled at in a game for being out of position or not knowing what to do.

I see you have a “speed over everything” coach. I dealt with one of those with my oldest daughter. She wasn’t the fastest defender but had technical skills better than all the other defenders. She could dribble and pass with both feet but because she wasn’t as fast…she got less playing time at the comp level.

She’s in high school now and thriving because her coach found a spot at middle defense for her that doesn’t need as much speed but needs all of the stuff that she excels at.