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Old 09-22-2022, 10:34 AM  
DJ's left nut DJ's left nut is offline
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The mystery of our fascination with Outside Zone

So I'll gladly listen to anyone that wants to correct me on this one, but it sure looks to me like the Chiefs STILL prefer an outside zone running system and for the life of me I cannot figure out why.

There's an article in the Athletic that really sums up my confusing in a lot of ways. It's about the Lions dedication to a power gap scheme. Here's a little blurb that kinda makes my point for me:

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The popularity of the outside zone system that stems from Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVay has led to more teams employing a Vic Fangio-style defense, which asks defensive linemen to play slower and take on a gap-and-a-half, rather than fly upfield and play only one gap. Theoretically, the defense can live in light boxes and invest more personnel in defending the pass as long as its front can slow down ball carriers long enough for the secondary to help. This works well against zone runs because offensive linemen move laterally, but the Lions like to run right into the teeth of defenses with authority. They want their offensive line, one of the best in the league, firing off vertically and punishing defenders.
https://theathletic.com/3613162/2022...e-ben-johnson/


WHY IS THIS NOT OUR RUNNING GAME!?!?! Teams have been doing that Fangio shit to us for 2+ years now. They're living in light boxes and when we run the ball we're leading with our chins and running this damn outside zone crap that A) Doesn't take advantage of our power blockers as well and B) Lets the defense do what it wants to do, which is use speed and move laterally to race us to the sidelines and seal off big gains. It can essentially run Nickel formations and still manage that.

Maybe they're doing more gap running than I realize or maybe I'm just too damn stupid to see the bigger picture of what they're trying to accomplish.

But man - I will never understand why we haven't made teams 'pick your poison' more. When we run, it should absolutely be a gap scheme designed to just maul guys rather than this outside zone crap that just does them a massive favor while not taking advantage of our OL's greatest strengths.
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Old 09-22-2022, 10:38 AM   #2
SuperBowl4 SuperBowl4 is offline
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Old 09-22-2022, 10:52 AM   #3
L.A. Chieffan L.A. Chieffan is online now
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Reid has been doing the same running scheme since the old Philly days. I can still picture Brian Westbrook bouncing it to the outside
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Old 09-22-2022, 10:58 AM   #4
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I don't know. Maybe it compliments the passing game to help set up his screen game? Perhaps it forces the defense to read the play longer...I'm just spitballing here to keep the discussion rolling cause it's an interesting question.
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Old 09-22-2022, 11:05 AM   #5
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Sorry, I'm deferring to Fat Andy on this one
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Old 09-22-2022, 11:09 AM   #6
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I admit I didn't know we ran that type of run scheme. From my novice eyes I never thought our run game looked anything like what Shanahan ran.
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Old 09-22-2022, 11:14 AM   #7
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I just want us to go power and make teams with light boxs pay sometimes. But we never really do.
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Old 09-22-2022, 11:32 AM   #8
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[QUOTE=Dunerdr;16481283]I just want us to go power and make teams with light boxs pay sometimes. But we never really do.[/QUOTE yeah Id like to see the interior line go to work on DL
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Old 09-22-2022, 11:33 AM   #9
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My idiot reasoning is that with limited training camp contact and such practices, it's easier to run a zone scheme than a man gap scheme as it requires more timing and such? Maybe?
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Old 09-22-2022, 11:34 AM   #10
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Old 09-22-2022, 11:36 AM   #11
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Old 09-22-2022, 11:45 AM   #12
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...has led to more teams employing a Vic Fangio-style defense, which asks defensive linemen to play slower and take on a gap-and-a-half, rather than fly upfield and play only one gap.
Is this to help support the passing attack? If the D-linemen are slower to push into the backfield, I'd imagine this buys more time for the QB to scan, and more time for the WR's to get deeper downfield.

There's a counter-reaction to everything, sure, but I'm wondering if this is the logic.
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Old 09-22-2022, 12:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O.city View Post
My idiot reasoning is that with limited training camp contact and such practices, it's easier to run a zone scheme than a man gap scheme as it requires more timing and such? Maybe?
Dan Campbell managed to teach it in an off-season and he's dumb as a shoe.
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Old 09-22-2022, 12:46 PM   #14
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It seems we generally have good runs when we run at the defense. We saw that against the Chargers, especially at the start of the game. And they do exactly what the OP was saying, play a light box and try to bring up the secondary to support.

We started out our first drive running the ball really good up the middle...then we ran sideways on 3rd and 2 and lost 4 yards.
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Old 09-22-2022, 12:49 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Dan Campbell managed to teach it in an off-season and he's dumb as a shoe.
Likely the case.

I'm not sure what the proclivity towards it is. IIRC, Andy was more of a man blocking gap scheme earlier in his career, not sure why the change?
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