Chiefs Building a defense in the modern NFL

Chris Meck · 11-21-2018, 03:57 PM

So, I've been thinking about this all season, and especially after watching Monday's game have some thoughts.

Something Reid said a few weeks back has been on my mind-he said that he thought the future of pass rushing was on the inside, as it's a shorter distance to the QB. Teams are getting the ball out quicker and quicker these days to neutralize that outside pass rush. See Aaron Donald.

1. Corners aren't allowed to play physical anymore. So top end speed, discipline and ball skills are really the only things that matter.

2. Outside pass rushers and CB's are generally the highest paid defenders at the current moment.

3. Interior linemen are, with a few exceptions, undervalued.

4. Safeties have become undervalued, as teams refuse to spend the top dollar on them (other than us with Berry) and instead put that money into CB's. We're speaking relatively here.

I think going forward, I would concentrate on defensive linemen as pass rushers first in the draft and free agency. I would tag Ford next year and let Houston walk after '19. I would sink dollars and high picks into the interior 3 move away from overpaying edge rushers.

I would absolutely sign quality veteran safeties, as to me, they're MORE valuable than corners if this is how the NFL wants to play.

I think every corner gets torched anymore and so this position is no longer worth the premium contract. There's not a lot of difference anymore between a mediocre corner and a great one under these rules. But a smart safety that diagnoses the play and is in the right place is golden. More so than before.

just my thoughts.

O.city · 11-21-2018, 04:01 PM

Whatever you do, you've gotta be multiple. I think having versatile guys that aren't necessarily specialists is where you've gotta try and go.

**SAUTO** · 11-21-2018, 04:01 PM

You are kinda contradicting yourself on the safety and corner stuff

**The Franchise** · 11-21-2018, 04:03 PM

Run a 4-3. You need to be able to pressure consistently with your four down linemen. You'll also need LBs that can cover well and stop the run. Man corners that have speed and ball skills. Rangy safeties that can take away the TE and also play the deep zones.

Chris Meck · 11-21-2018, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAUTO

You are kinda contradicting yourself on the safety and corner stuff

well, what I mean is-pay the safeties, not the corners.

the safeties prevent touchdowns. The corners are going to get burnt no matter what they do.

Chris Meck · 11-21-2018, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pest

Run a 4-3. You need to be able to pressure consistently with your four down linemen. You'll also need LBs that can cover well and stop the run. Man corners that have speed and ball skills. Rangy safeties that can take away the TE and also play the deep zones.

I would agree with this except that nobody's in their base defense much anymore. Nickel is more or less everyone's base defense.

**The Franchise** · 11-21-2018, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I would agree with this except that nobody's in their base defense much anymore. Nickel is more or less everyone's base defense.

Exactly why you run a 4-3. You have defensive linemen that can get pressure from the base defense, nickel or dime.

Chris Meck · 11-21-2018, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pest

Exactly why you run a 4-3. You have defensive linemen that can get pressure from the base defense, nickel or dime.

Yeah, I'm just saying we do that a lot already. I mean, they may call Speaks and or Kpass OLB's, but their essentially DE's on a four man line when we're in nickel, which is like 70% of the time.

I think 4-3 or 3-4 is irrelevant in the modern NFL. What does matter is where you put your monetary and draft pick resources. I think it might be smart to put it where other teams DON'T, at least not as a first priority. Especially so since we're likely to be drafting at the bottom of each round for the forseeable future.

Randallflagg · 11-21-2018, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pest

Run a 4-3. You need to be able to pressure consistently with your four down linemen. You'll also need LBs that can cover well and stop the run. Man corners that have speed and ball skills. Rangy safeties that can take away the TE and also play the deep zones.

I agree. Absolutely. Unfortunately in this new "era" of Arena League - you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Run a 3-4 and you get very little push up front, giving the opposing QB more time to look downfield.

Run a 4-3 and you get more push up front, but if you miss - you lose.....

Me? I'm a believer in the 4-3. But again - if you don't have a good rushing Down Lineman who can shoot the gap and 2 good edge rushers, well.....it can end fairly badly.

Neil Smith, Derrick Thomas and Dan Saleaumua. Need I say more?

O.city · 11-21-2018, 04:12 PM

The Chiefs lead the league in sacks this year. That's not been the problem.

Randallflagg · 11-21-2018, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

The Chiefs lead the league in sacks this year. That's not been the problem.

This is true. If you have a bad backfield.....well.......all bets are off....

Chris Meck · 11-21-2018, 04:16 PM

think of it this way-

with any contact on WR's getting a flag, paying for 'elite' CB play is pointless. However, smart, talented safeties know where to be, take good pursuit angles, can cover backs and TE's, and shut down the big play.

I'd pay the money for Landon Collins AND Earl Thomas. I'd pay the money for another force on the d-line to pair with Jones.

What I'm saying is, with these rules, quality safety play>CB play, and DL rush>edge rush.

bowener · 11-21-2018, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

think of it this way-

with any contact on WR's getting a flag, paying for 'elite' CB play is pointless. However, smart, talented safeties know where to be, take good pursuit angles, can cover backs and TE's, and shut down the big play.

I'd pay the money for Landon Collins AND Earl Thomas. I'd pay the money for another force on the d-line to pair with Jones.

What I'm saying is, with these rules, quality safety play>CB play, and DL rush>edge rush.

So when it comes to corner what would you look for? Find the fastest guys and play a ton of zone hoping to create turnovers?

oldman · 11-21-2018, 04:41 PM

I agree with you about Dbacks. CBs aren't able to be physical anymore, so speed and hands are essential. It'd be nice if they could tackle, too. I'm not sure there's such a thing as a 3-4 or 4-3 anymore except the number of LBs and D linemen. It's evident that edge rushers alone aren't the answer to the Madden/fantasy football product the NFL is pushing now. Either modify the rules for PI or just accept that 80 point games are going to be the norm and ruin the integrity of the game.

Chris Meck · 11-21-2018, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowener

So when it comes to corner what would you look for? Find the fastest guys and play a ton of zone hoping to create turnovers?

yeah, I think so.

I think a guy like Tremon Smith is what you'd be looking to draft for CB's. Fast, fast, fast. And NEVER pay a big second contract to those guys. Just draft and replace. They're not allowed to be great so why pay them like they are?

And spend the money on elite safeties. Earl Thomas, Landon Collins, guys like that.

And edge rushers are nice, keep 'em when you got 'em, but invest more heavily going forward in your d-line, interior guys. You need another Chris Jones.

11-21-2018, 03:57 PM
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $2024910	Building a defense in the modern NFL So, I've been thinking about this all season, and especially after watching Monday's game have some thoughts. Something Reid said a few weeks back has been on my mind-he said that he thought the future of pass rushing was on the inside, as it's a shorter distance to the QB. Teams are getting the ball out quicker and quicker these days to neutralize that outside pass rush. See Aaron Donald. 1. Corners aren't allowed to play physical anymore. So top end speed, discipline and ball skills are really the only things that matter. 2. Outside pass rushers and CB's are generally the highest paid defenders at the current moment. 3. Interior linemen are, with a few exceptions, undervalued. 4. Safeties have become undervalued, as teams refuse to spend the top dollar on them (other than us with Berry) and instead put that money into CB's. We're speaking relatively here. I think going forward, I would concentrate on defensive linemen as pass rushers first in the draft and free agency. I would tag Ford next year and let Houston walk after '19. I would sink dollars and high picks into the interior 3 move away from overpaying edge rushers. I would absolutely sign quality veteran safeties, as to me, they're MORE valuable than corners if this is how the NFL wants to play. I think every corner gets torched anymore and so this position is no longer worth the premium contract. There's not a lot of difference anymore between a mediocre corner and a great one under these rules. But a smart safety that diagnoses the play and is in the right place is golden. More so than before. just my thoughts.
Posts: 17,455

11-21-2018, 04:01 PM	#2
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2834064	Whatever you do, you've gotta be multiple. I think having versatile guys that aren't necessarily specialists is where you've gotta try and go.
Posts: 81,176

11-21-2018, 04:01 PM	#3
SAUTO Shit Join Date: Jun 2008 Casino cash: $10039067	You are kinda contradicting yourself on the safety and corner stuff
Posts: 55,715

11-21-2018, 04:03 PM	#4
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $3195047	Run a 4-3. You need to be able to pressure consistently with your four down linemen. You'll also need LBs that can cover well and stop the run. Man corners that have speed and ball skills. Rangy safeties that can take away the TE and also play the deep zones.
Posts: 91,944	3 0

11-21-2018, 04:12 PM	#10
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2834064	The Chiefs lead the league in sacks this year. That's not been the problem.
Posts: 81,176

11-21-2018, 04:16 PM	#12
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $2024910	think of it this way- with any contact on WR's getting a flag, paying for 'elite' CB play is pointless. However, smart, talented safeties know where to be, take good pursuit angles, can cover backs and TE's, and shut down the big play. I'd pay the money for Landon Collins AND Earl Thomas. I'd pay the money for another force on the d-line to pair with Jones. What I'm saying is, with these rules, quality safety play>CB play, and DL rush>edge rush.
Posts: 17,455

11-21-2018, 04:41 PM	#14
oldman Curmudgeon Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North by Northwest Casino cash: $5836784	I agree with you about Dbacks. CBs aren't able to be physical anymore, so speed and hands are essential. It'd be nice if they could tackle, too. I'm not sure there's such a thing as a 3-4 or 4-3 anymore except the number of LBs and D linemen. It's evident that edge rushers alone aren't the answer to the Madden/fantasy football product the NFL is pushing now. Either modify the rules for PI or just accept that 80 point games are going to be the norm and ruin the integrity of the game.
Posts: 5,319