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Old 02-01-2019, 05:14 PM  
EmojiMania EmojiMania is offline
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Fox News Poll: 54% of Republicans, 70% of all voters support raising taxes on $10m+

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox...estic-spending

Overall voters:



Republicans in particular:

Quote:
Republicans are less sure where the sweet spot is for tax hikes. A majority of 59 percent opposes tax hikes on incomes over $250,000, while a 54 percent majority favors increases on incomes over $10 million. For incomes over $1 million, GOP views split: 47 favor vs. 43 oppose.
Sounds like AOC's ideas are more popular in your party than any of you care to admit!
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Old 02-04-2019, 10:05 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Poverty is a growing problem if you step outside your bubble. And it should matter even inside of that bubble because it leads to property crime and addictions and mental illness that lead to less safe neighborhoods. There are a lot of people struggling and more than you realize who live paycheck to paycheck. I volunteer often for a food bank and the United way and it will stun you how many ordinary families are a paycheck away from losing everything. Despite the stereotype that many of these people are lazy and don't try, many are good people who caught a big break. Thank God we are fortunate.

It doesn't have to be fixed by government. They've often made things worse. But we can challenge wealth creators to do better. Watching the rise of Trump and bernie populism, how can anyone not conclude that the working class overwhelmingly feels marginalized.
Wealth creators should be rewarded not punished. They create jobs and opportunity... They however, should be punished if they are high illegal immigrants. Trumps populism actually has a chance of working... Cutting down on the importation of low skilled labor, enforcing trade deals, lowering the corporate income tax... This is the way to prosperity, not wealth redistribution like Bernie proposes.

Finally, I'm sick of this pay check to paycheck shit with ordinary families. Obviously some do the right things and struggle, others spend on non-essentials, like newer cars and latest model cell phones, and clothes that are all expensive, and eat out more than they should, because they live a Champagne life on a beer budget.
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Old 02-04-2019, 10:08 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Poverty is a growing problem if you step outside your bubble. And it should matter even inside of that bubble because it leads to property crime and addictions and mental illness that lead to less safe neighborhoods. There are a lot of people struggling and more than you realize who live paycheck to paycheck. I volunteer often for a food bank and the United way and it will stun you how many ordinary families are a paycheck away from losing everything. Despite the stereotype that many of these people are lazy and don't try, many are good people who caught a big break. Thank God we are fortunate.

It doesn't have to be fixed by government. They've often made things worse. But we can challenge wealth creators to do better. Watching the rise of Trump and bernie populism, how can anyone not conclude that the working class overwhelmingly feels marginalized.
Yeah, everyone else is in a bubble, but your soup kitchen experience should guide us all. Poverty is not a growing problem in the US.
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Old 02-04-2019, 10:12 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Poverty is a growing problem if you step outside your bubble. And it should matter even inside of that bubble because it leads to property crime and addictions and mental illness that lead to less safe neighborhoods. There are a lot of people struggling and more than you realize who live paycheck to paycheck. I volunteer often for a food bank and the United way and it will stun you how many ordinary families are a paycheck away from losing everything. Despite the stereotype that many of these people are lazy and don't try, many are good people who caught a big break. Thank God we are fortunate.



It doesn't have to be fixed by government. They've often made things worse. But we can challenge wealth creators to do better. Watching the rise of Trump and bernie populism, how can anyone not conclude that the working class overwhelmingly feels marginalized.
Poverty is not a growing problem. Capitalism has raised people out of abject poverty at a faster rate then even the UN predicted 20 years ago. Wealth inequality isn't the problem either. It's not like a poker game where there is a set amount of chips (or wealth). Wealth can be created. The whole engine of capitalism is inequality, competition. I desire more, so I provide more value.

Bernie, like Marx are right about some of their critiques of capitalism, it's their solutions that are so wrong. Centrization isnt the answer. It's the problem. The market isn't free to operate because of government intervention which creates crony capitalism, or corporate nepotism.

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Old 02-04-2019, 10:27 AM   #94
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Explain the above in more detail, it's a word salad?

Also, waiting on the corporate welfare and loophole examples so we can discuss?
We've already closed one of them. Gop tax plan repatriated taxes on corporations basically using foreign labor tax free. We've collected something like $650b and that's an underestimation. There are still trillions in offshore wealth both corporate and individually that are hidden from taxation.

corporations spend several billions on lobbying. they don't spend that unless they get a significant rate of return. Its leads to over $100b in govt subsidies. Some estimate in the trillions. Do I need to state the obvious? Green energy. But to be clear, that is one example among many. GE is the most obvious example. They receive $3b in tax benefit (not only do they avoid taxes, we pay them). This is basically govt sponsored stimulus money and I'm not sure how anti government conservatives would support this.
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Old 02-04-2019, 10:38 AM   #95
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Poverty is only a problem for those who make poor decisions. All it takes to get to the middle class in this country is:

1. Graduate high school (whether the school is good or not doesn't matter)

2. Don't have kids until marriage

3. Work a full time job.

Nearly 90% of people who do those 3 things move into the middle class. The problem is only about 30% of people born poor will do those 3 things.

And that demographic also has the highest birth rates and is growing most rapidly from both that and illegal immigration, which is why income inequality will continue to increase.

Taxing the rich and/or implementing some type of guaranteed basic income will initially have a positive effect on growth as it will give lower income groups more money to spend, but the effect will eventually turn negative as a welfare state reinforces negative behavior so that group will continue to grow until it strains those at the top to fund it, then things will quickly turn to hell in a handbasket. See any socialist country. Welfare spending adjusted for inflation is about 10x what it was in the 60's yet the numbers of poor remain the same. See attachment.
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Old 02-04-2019, 10:41 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
We've already closed one of them. Gop tax plan repatriated taxes on corporations basically using foreign labor tax free. We've collected something like $650b and that's an underestimation. There are still trillions in offshore wealth both corporate and individually that are hidden from taxation.

corporations spend several billions on lobbying. they don't spend that unless they get a significant rate of return. Its leads to over $100b in govt subsidies. Some estimate in the trillions. Do I need to state the obvious? Green energy. But to be clear, that is one example among many. GE is the most obvious example. They receive $3b in tax benefit (not only do they avoid taxes, we pay them). This is basically govt sponsored stimulus money and I'm not sure how anti government conservatives would support this.
You can't hide corporate wealth overseas, it's usually legally there. The new rates should continue to move that money back. It's really hard for an individual to shelter money anywhere outside of the US. It's also very punitive for any foreign bank that would allow this to happen in the electronic era.

As far as gov't subsidies. I agree with you. I don't think the gov't should be picking winners and losers. I agree there shouldn't be subsidies for Green Energy, specifically wind, as well as some farm subsidies, even though I am from Iowa. However, sometimes they call expenses deductions for research and development by some firms as corporate welfare. This are actually true expenses offsetting revenue and lead to great progress.
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Old 02-04-2019, 10:44 AM   #97
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Yeah, everyone else is in a bubble, but your soup kitchen experience should guide us all. Poverty is not a growing problem in the US.
Census stats include safety net (I don't think you want to go there) and has a low poverty threshold. And it doesn't address that not all poverty has to be extreme poverty. Nor does it address the growing working poor. And I don't think you have a concept about what a food bank is. They damn well better have a good pulse on community poverty.
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Old 02-04-2019, 10:58 AM   #98
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You can't hide corporate wealth overseas, it's usually legally there. The new rates should continue to move that money back. It's really hard for an individual to shelter money anywhere outside of the US. It's also very punitive for any foreign bank that would allow this to happen in the electronic era.

As far as gov't subsidies. I agree with you. I don't think the gov't should be picking winners and losers. I agree there shouldn't be subsidies for Green Energy, specifically wind, as well as some farm subsidies, even though I am from Iowa. However, sometimes they call expenses deductions for research and development by some firms as corporate welfare. This are actually true expenses offsetting revenue and lead to great progress.
Yes, I agree. Some subsidies legitimately provide capital investment. But even those can be cherrypicked. GE created a special depreciation for jet engines alone. Basically, if you have money to lobby, you can get govt to favor your project over the other.

On loopholes, I think you're underestimating how much is sitting in tax havens and shell companies. Some estimate it's in the tens of trillions. and overestimating how much visibility we have to this. But it's not just offshoring. If you can afford a good accountant, it's not hard to game the system through things like equity swaps or other creative investment options.
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Old 02-04-2019, 11:22 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
We've already closed one of them. Gop tax plan repatriated taxes on corporations basically using foreign labor tax free. We've collected something like $650b and that's an underestimation. There are still trillions in offshore wealth both corporate and individually that are hidden from taxation.

corporations spend several billions on lobbying. they don't spend that unless they get a significant rate of return. Its leads to over $100b in govt subsidies. Some estimate in the trillions. Do I need to state the obvious? Green energy. But to be clear, that is one example among many. GE is the most obvious example. They receive $3b in tax benefit (not only do they avoid taxes, we pay them). This is basically govt sponsored stimulus money and I'm not sure how anti government conservatives would support this.
You write well. Too bad you have zero understanding of what you write. Do you assume a company doing business in Germany with German plant and German workers does not pay taxes to Germany on income made there? Are you really that out of touch?

GOP Plan allowed PROFITS to be brought back to the US and those PROFITS were taxed, none of it was unpaid tax.
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Old 02-04-2019, 11:24 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Census stats include safety net (I don't think you want to go there) and has a low poverty threshold. And it doesn't address that not all poverty has to be extreme poverty. Nor does it address the growing working poor. And I don't think you have a concept about what a food bank is. They damn well better have a good pulse on community poverty.
You should check in with the shoppers at your grocery store for further expertise while you're at it.
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Old 02-04-2019, 11:32 AM   #101
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Yes, I agree. Some subsidies legitimately provide capital investment. But even those can be cherrypicked. GE created a special depreciation for jet engines alone. Basically, if you have money to lobby, you can get govt to favor your project over the other.

On loopholes, I think you're underestimating how much is sitting in tax havens and shell companies. Some estimate it's in the tens of trillions. and overestimating how much visibility we have to this. But it's not just offshoring. If you can afford a good accountant, it's not hard to game the system through things like equity swaps or other creative investment options.
GE didn't create any kind of special depreciation. They probably lobbied for it, but they don't get to make those decisions. I assume this was just a misstatement on your part.

GE's engine business isn't an ordinary business. We have limited domestic sources for jet aircraft engines necessary for national defense. It's a strategic capability. That's not necessarily a defense of any particular subsidy, but it's reason to view those subsidies in a different light and judge them on a different scale.
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Old 02-04-2019, 03:34 PM   #102
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You write well. Too bad you have zero understanding of what you write. Do you assume a company doing business in Germany with German plant and German workers does not pay taxes to Germany on income made there? Are you really that out of touch?

GOP Plan allowed PROFITS to be brought back to the US and those PROFITS were taxed, none of it was unpaid tax.
The point wasn't that they're not paying any taxes period. The point is that they are holding money in other countries purely for tax advantages. They are gaming American tax law that allows them to defer tax liability into an indefinite deferment. Let's be real... The main intent is to dodge American taxes. In some cases its choosing foreign production instead of keeping workers in the US. In other cases, it's not Germany because they're producing in germany. It's using creative accounting to justify that they've done lots of business in the cayman or Bahamas. So yes, in many cases, they are essentially dodging American tax and paying no foreign tax.
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Old 02-04-2019, 03:48 PM   #103
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You should check in with the shoppers at your grocery store for further expertise while you're at it.
It's besides the point. But you still apparently have no concept of what a food bank is. And you didn't address the point that the study you cited is incredibly flawed. Any conservative should understand the problem with including safety net as income. It basically suggests that poverty is decreasing because the govt is helping them out. I don't think that's the message you're looking for. Again, step into a community nonprofit that deals with poverty issues. Can assure you they don't at all feel that the issue is improving.
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Old 02-04-2019, 04:13 PM   #104
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It's besides the point. But you still apparently have no concept of what a food bank is. And you didn't address the point that the study you cited is incredibly flawed. Any conservative should understand the problem with including safety net as income. It basically suggests that poverty is decreasing because the govt is helping them out. I don't think that's the message you're looking for. Again, step into a community nonprofit that deals with poverty issues. Can assure you they don't at all feel that the issue is improving.
With SNAP and free and reduced breakfast and lunch for students, there seems to be ample food benefits for poor citizens. Who uses the food bank? I could see transitional folks using it, but unless you misspend your SNAP funds, you should have ample food for a family.

I found this article amazing, with the pics. Not trying to pick on anyone, but come on...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...skipping-meals
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Old 02-04-2019, 04:17 PM   #105
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I found this article amazing, with the pics. Not trying to pick on anyone, but come on...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...skipping-meals
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