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Old 02-26-2020, 10:28 PM  
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***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***

A couple of reminders...

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Originally Posted by Bwana View Post
Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.
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Originally Posted by Dartgod View Post
People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

Last edited by Bearcat; 03-25-2020 at 08:56 AM.. Reason: adding spoiler tag
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Old 07-21-2021, 09:49 AM   #53476
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Ventilation is still needed and used in these cases depending on saturation and such.
I know one thing, I wouldn't want to end up in the care of a woman that was putting everyone on a ventilator!

You check in with her, you don't check out. Maybe she should be reading up on giving patients blood thinners, steroids, and not putting a tube down the throat of everyone she disagrees with.
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Old 07-21-2021, 10:00 AM   #53477
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Originally Posted by MahomesMagic View Post
I know one thing, I wouldn't want to end up in the care of a woman that was putting everyone on a ventilator!

You check in with her, you don't check out. Maybe she should be reading up on giving patients blood thinners, steroids, and not putting a tube down the throat of everyone she disagrees with.
Mechanical ventilation is a last step option once everything has been exhausted.

I would venture to guess she's not ventilating patients she disagrees with. Ethically, thats job loss and litigation.
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Old 07-21-2021, 10:05 AM   #53478
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Originally Posted by MahomesMagic View Post
I know one thing, I wouldn't want to end up in the care of a woman that was putting everyone on a ventilator!

You check in with her, you don't check out. Maybe she should be reading up on giving patients blood thinners, steroids, and not putting a tube down the throat of everyone she disagrees with.
It is very obvious you have zero medical experience.
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Old 07-21-2021, 10:14 AM   #53479
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He's done his own research.
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Old 07-21-2021, 10:16 AM   #53480
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She's fine. We had a hard time with it last year, ended up losing 5 family members to this thing and have a few others that were hospitalized but thankfully recovered.



It's tough, but life is tough sometimes.
Really sorry to hear about the family members. Glad the wife is good. I've lost my uncle and hopefully no one else I care about. He did everything right too to avoid it but still got him. I'm fortunate all my family members and friends have gotten vaccinated or will be as soon as it's available (overseas) and are taking precautions. Life is definitely tough sometimes.
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Old 07-21-2021, 10:28 AM   #53481
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Originally Posted by Monticore View Post
It is very obvious you have zero medical experience.
I see you are more than a year behind on this.


Here you go:

With ventilators running out, doctors say the machines are overused for Covid-19
Sharon Begley
By Sharon Begley April 8, 2020

If the iconoclasts are right, putting coronavirus patients on ventilators could be of little benefit to many and even harmful to some.

What’s driving this reassessment is a baffling observation about Covid-19: Many patients have blood oxygen levels so low they should be dead. But they’re not gasping for air, their hearts aren’t racing, and their brains show no signs of blinking off from lack of oxygen.




That is making critical care physicians suspect that blood levels of oxygen, which for decades have driven decisions about breathing support for patients with pneumonia and acute respiratory distress, might be misleading them about how to care for those with Covid-19. In particular, more and more are concerned about the use of intubation and mechanical ventilators. They argue that more patients could receive simpler, noninvasive respiratory support, such as the breathing masks used in sleep apnea, at least to start with and maybe for the duration of the illness.



“I think we may indeed be able to support a subset of these patients” with less invasive breathing support, said Sohan Japa, an internal medicine physician at Boston’s Brigham and Women’s Hospital. “I think we have to be more nuanced about who we intubate.”




That would help relieve a shortage of ventilators so critical that states are scrambling to procure them and some hospitals are taking the unprecedented (and largely untested) step of using a single ventilator for more than one patient. And it would mean fewer Covid-19 patients, particularly elderly ones, would be at risk of suffering the long-term cognitive and physical effects of sedation and intubation while being on a ventilator.

None of this means that ventilators are not necessary in the Covid-19 crisis, or that hospitals are wrong to fear running out. But as doctors learn more about treating Covid-19, and question old dogma about blood oxygen and the need for ventilators, they might be able to substitute simpler and more widely available devices.

An oxygen saturation rate below 93% (normal is 95% to 100%) has long been taken as a sign of potential hypoxia and impending organ damage. Before Covid-19, when the oxygen level dropped below this threshold, physicians supported their patients’ breathing with noninvasive devices such as continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP, the sleep apnea device) and bilevel positive airway pressure ventilators (BiPAP). Both work via a tube into a face mask.

In severe pneumonia or acute respiratory distress unrelated to Covid-19, or if the noninvasive devices don’t boost oxygen levels enough, critical care doctors turn to mechanical ventilators that push oxygen into the lungs at a preset rate and force: A physician threads a 10-inch plastic tube down a patient’s throat and into the lungs, attaches it to the ventilator, and administers heavy and long-lasting sedation so the patient can’t fight the sensation of being unable to breathe on his own.

But because in some patients with Covid-19, blood-oxygen levels fall to hardly-ever-seen levels, into the 70s and even lower, physicians are intubating them sooner. “Data from China(Whoops!) suggested that early intubation would keep Covid-19 patients’ heart, liver, and kidneys from failing due to hypoxia,” said a veteran emergency medicine physician. “This has been the whole thing driving decisions about breathing support: Knock them out and put them on a ventilator.

To be sure, many physicians are starting simple. “Most hospitals, including ours, are using simpler, noninvasive strategies first,” including the apnea devices and even nasal cannulas, said Greg Martin, a critical care physician at Emory University School of Medicine and president-elect of the Society of Critical Care Medicine. (Nasal cannulas are tubes whose two prongs, held beneath the nostrils by elastic, deliver air to the nose.) “It doesn’t require sedation and the patient [remains conscious and] can participate in his care. But if the oxygen saturation gets too low you can achieve more oxygen delivery with a mechanical ventilator.”

The question is whether ICU physicians are moving patients to mechanical ventilators too quickly. “Almost the entire decision tree is driven by oxygen saturation levels,” said the emergency medicine physician, who asked not to be named so as not to appear to be criticizing colleagues.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/...-for-covid-19/
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Old 07-21-2021, 10:29 AM   #53482
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I'd guess, they've learned quite a bit in a year so yeah, If someone is requiring mechanical ventilation at this point, everything else has been exhausted.
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Old 07-21-2021, 10:30 AM   #53483
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
He's done his own research.
There is a reason that most medical programs have a large practical component and students pretty much get told to forget what they learned in school, the didactic part is mostly there to get your ready for your exams.

The fact that he is trying to simplify something that he doesn't full comprehend because he read about it also tells me that he isn't as smart as he thinks.
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Old 07-21-2021, 10:35 AM   #53484
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Originally Posted by O.city View Post
I'd guess, they've learned quite a bit in a year so yeah, If someone is requiring mechanical ventilation at this point, everything else has been exhausted.
With any new disease, doctors are flying blind in the beginning and they adapt. However, we have bad faith actors that seize upon those early actions to then say everything going forward is wrong because I guess people aren't allowed to learn and adapt.

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Old 07-21-2021, 10:35 AM   #53485
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Originally Posted by MahomesMagic View Post
I see you are more than a year behind on this.


Here you go:

With ventilators running out, doctors say the machines are overused for Covid-19
Sharon Begley
By Sharon Begley April 8, 2020

If the iconoclasts are right, putting coronavirus patients on ventilators could be of little benefit to many and even harmful to some.

What’s driving this reassessment is a baffling observation about Covid-19: Many patients have blood oxygen levels so low they should be dead. But they’re not gasping for air, their hearts aren’t racing, and their brains show no signs of blinking off from lack of oxygen.




That is making critical care physicians suspect that blood levels of oxygen, which for decades have driven decisions about breathing support for patients with pneumonia and acute respiratory distress, might be misleading them about how to care for those with Covid-19. In particular, more and more are concerned about the use of intubation and mechanical ventilators. They argue that more patients could receive simpler, noninvasive respiratory support, such as the breathing masks used in sleep apnea, at least to start with and maybe for the duration of the illness.



“I think we may indeed be able to support a subset of these patients” with less invasive breathing support, said Sohan Japa, an internal medicine physician at Boston’s Brigham and Women’s Hospital. “I think we have to be more nuanced about who we intubate.”




That would help relieve a shortage of ventilators so critical that states are scrambling to procure them and some hospitals are taking the unprecedented (and largely untested) step of using a single ventilator for more than one patient. And it would mean fewer Covid-19 patients, particularly elderly ones, would be at risk of suffering the long-term cognitive and physical effects of sedation and intubation while being on a ventilator.

None of this means that ventilators are not necessary in the Covid-19 crisis, or that hospitals are wrong to fear running out. But as doctors learn more about treating Covid-19, and question old dogma about blood oxygen and the need for ventilators, they might be able to substitute simpler and more widely available devices.

An oxygen saturation rate below 93% (normal is 95% to 100%) has long been taken as a sign of potential hypoxia and impending organ damage. Before Covid-19, when the oxygen level dropped below this threshold, physicians supported their patients’ breathing with noninvasive devices such as continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP, the sleep apnea device) and bilevel positive airway pressure ventilators (BiPAP). Both work via a tube into a face mask.

In severe pneumonia or acute respiratory distress unrelated to Covid-19, or if the noninvasive devices don’t boost oxygen levels enough, critical care doctors turn to mechanical ventilators that push oxygen into the lungs at a preset rate and force: A physician threads a 10-inch plastic tube down a patient’s throat and into the lungs, attaches it to the ventilator, and administers heavy and long-lasting sedation so the patient can’t fight the sensation of being unable to breathe on his own.

But because in some patients with Covid-19, blood-oxygen levels fall to hardly-ever-seen levels, into the 70s and even lower, physicians are intubating them sooner. “Data from China(Whoops!) suggested that early intubation would keep Covid-19 patients’ heart, liver, and kidneys from failing due to hypoxia,” said a veteran emergency medicine physician. “This has been the whole thing driving decisions about breathing support: Knock them out and put them on a ventilator.

To be sure, many physicians are starting simple. “Most hospitals, including ours, are using simpler, noninvasive strategies first,” including the apnea devices and even nasal cannulas, said Greg Martin, a critical care physician at Emory University School of Medicine and president-elect of the Society of Critical Care Medicine. (Nasal cannulas are tubes whose two prongs, held beneath the nostrils by elastic, deliver air to the nose.) “It doesn’t require sedation and the patient [remains conscious and] can participate in his care. But if the oxygen saturation gets too low you can achieve more oxygen delivery with a mechanical ventilator.”

The question is whether ICU physicians are moving patients to mechanical ventilators too quickly. “Almost the entire decision tree is driven by oxygen saturation levels,” said the emergency medicine physician, who asked not to be named so as not to appear to be criticizing colleagues.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/...-for-covid-19/
I understand they have tried using a more conservative approach for well over a year but that doesn't mean people still don't end up needing it or ECMO .
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Old 07-21-2021, 10:38 AM   #53486
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I say we make vaccines mandatory. If you don't comply, you will be forced to look at Hope Solo's nudes 4 hours every day until Covid is gone.
I suddenly crave steakums for some weird reason.

Once the FDA fully approves the vaccines, you will see a lot more vaccine mandates drop in place very quickly and I am all for it. I am sure the "mUh FReeDUmms" crowd will be loud as hell but oh well. They are free to be stupid and not get the vaccine and at the same time they are free to keep their asses at home and away from civilized society.

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Old 07-21-2021, 10:39 AM   #53487
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
He's done his own research.
"Research"

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Old 07-21-2021, 10:44 AM   #53488
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"Research"

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Old 07-21-2021, 10:44 AM   #53489
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I understand they have tried using a more conservative approach for well over a year but that doesn't mean people still don't end up needing it or ECMO .
Everyone needing a ventilator and doing a Covid deathbed confession is an old marketing template.

Just saying besides dropping the Covid Parties they could drop that part too.

As a marketing guy, not a doctor, that's my advice to sell this kind of stuff moving forward...
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Old 07-21-2021, 11:01 AM   #53490
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Originally Posted by MahomesMagic View Post
Everyone needing a ventilator and doing a Covid deathbed confession is an old marketing template.

Just saying besides dropping the Covid Parties they could drop that part too.

As a marketing guy, not a doctor, that's my advice to sell this kind of stuff moving forward...
Doctors make horrible salesmen/women/persons and visa versa I would assume.
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