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Old 11-10-2018, 05:31 PM  
Chief Northman Chief Northman is offline
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Fairweather pussy

So Trump is having a bad week and just canít get out if his own way.
This is some weak shit on display here.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...tery-in-france
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Old 11-13-2018, 04:18 PM   #91
Baby Lee Baby Lee is offline
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Aside from attack a gold star family and avoid attending ceremonies for the fallen?

Nothing, I guess.
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Still repeating lies fed to you by media.
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You ever wonder what it would mean if you're wrong?
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On contrary friend, we're both here for the political theatre.
Speak for yourself. If there is a single aspect of political maneuvering that I hate more than any other, it's the theater aspect.

Of all people, the 'west coast liberals' the Sklar Brothers identified it on their podcast just a few months after the 2016 election. People have gone from advocating for their interests to 'soccer flopping,' pretending that every bit of friction or contact is grievously injurious.

There's more than plenty of fertile field all around all of us to advocate passionately about, but people are lazy, so rather than gather their thoughts and advocate with eloquence, they kneel for the anthem because the entire nation is illegitimate, or they call every provocation racist or bigoted, or they feign righteous outrage at negligible slights, or pretend all controversies suss out with pure good on one side and pure evil on the other.

As for facts and truth, you are dealing in perceptions and characterizations here, not empirical facts. Trump didn't 'repeated attack Gold Star families,' he responded strongly to a Gold Star father who openly and passionately criticized him in the course of a political campaign. And he didn't 'shit on the dead' by missing a couple of services. Until there comes contrary evidence, he relied on counsel and expertise of his security in inclement conditions.

But I get it, the support of military service and cops and firefighters, etc., bemuses and bedevils you, so you search for a chink in the armor of that support. But don't pretend it is anything but what it is, theater. Soccer flopping.
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Old 11-13-2018, 06:34 PM   #92
JakeLV JakeLV is offline
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Speak for yourself. If there is a single aspect of political maneuvering that I hate more than any other, it's the theater aspect.

Of all people, the 'west coast liberals' the Sklar Brothers identified it on their podcast just a few months after the 2016 election. People have gone from advocating for their interests to 'soccer flopping,' pretending that every bit of friction or contact is grievously injurious.

There's more than plenty of fertile field all around all of us to advocate passionately about, but people are lazy, so rather than gather their thoughts and advocate with eloquence, they kneel for the anthem because the entire nation is illegitimate, or they call every provocation racist or bigoted, or they feign righteous outrage at negligible slights, or pretend all controversies suss out with pure good on one side and pure evil on the other.

As for facts and truth, you are dealing in perceptions and characterizations here, not empirical facts. Trump didn't 'repeated attack Gold Star families,' he responded strongly to a Gold Star father who openly and passionately criticized him in the course of a political campaign. And he didn't 'shit on the dead' by missing a couple of services. Until there comes contrary evidence, he relied on counsel and expertise of his security in inclement conditions.

But I get it, the support of military service and cops and firefighters, etc., bemuses and bedevils you, so you search for a chink in the armor of that support. But don't pretend it is anything but what it is, theater. Soccer flopping.
I've tried to write this a whole bunch of different ways without engaging your straw man, but I think I can say it most succinctly this way:

At a high level, everybody here, whether intentionally or not, is attempting to control or put their own spin on the narrative. What's more theatrical than that? We all sure as shit find it entertaining, because we know we're not changing any minds.
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Old 11-13-2018, 07:13 PM   #93
Baby Lee Baby Lee is offline
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I've tried to write this a whole bunch of different ways without engaging your straw man, but I think I can say it most succinctly this way:

At a high level, everybody here, whether intentionally or not, is attempting to control or put their own spin on the narrative. What's more theatrical than that? We all sure as shit find it entertaining, because we know we're not changing any minds.
Again, speak for yourself.

I have specifically asked this specific forum where so much as the halfhearted effort for persuasion has gone. Many times.

I'll grant that, as the chasm grows I too grow tired to trying to explain things clearly to foster communication and work towards persuasion. But that's largely because some strive mightily to redefine, or even un-define, fundamental concepts in order to make sure that conversations stay off the rails and adversarial.

But that doesn't mean I'm up for the theatrics and random invective instead. I still disagree with people, but I try wherever it seems the least bit profitable to explain my reasoning. If people see and understand my reasoning and still disagree, at least we know we have an honest disagreement.
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Old 11-13-2018, 07:14 PM   #94
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Every time I see this thread titl, it reminds me of Acosta and his CP ball washers.
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:19 AM   #95
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Again, speak for yourself.

I have specifically asked this specific forum where so much as the halfhearted effort for persuasion has gone. Many times.

I'll grant that, as the chasm grows I too grow tired to trying to explain things clearly to foster communication and work towards persuasion. But that's largely because some strive mightily to redefine, or even un-define, fundamental concepts in order to make sure that conversations stay off the rails and adversarial.

But that doesn't mean I'm up for the theatrics and random invective instead.. I still disagree with people, but I try wherever it seems the least bit profitable to explain my reasoning. If people see and understand my reasoning and still disagree, at least we know we have an honest disagreement.
I dont know how we’ve gotten so far off course, but because I think you’re being honest, and against my better judgement, I’m going to acknowledge some of what you’re saying.

I believe you want an actual conversation, and that you really believe what you’re saying. And as proof of that, one of the few responses from this website that I remember is your response to me in the what are libs afraid of thread, related to global warming.

It was eloquent, thought out, and a reasonable position to take. Quite frankly, it might be the best retort to global warming I’ve ever heard (even if I don’t agree with it).

That being said, I don’t know how you sync the bolded statement with the first thing you responded to me with in this thread.

You didn’t attack the post, but the poster. You didn’t begin the conversation in good faith, you supposed a ton about me. You’re allowed to do that, but it feels a bit hollow for you to talk about discourse when you decided to engage in the very same bullshit you’re denouncing.

Last edited by JakeLV; 11-14-2018 at 12:26 AM..
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:34 AM   #96
Baby Lee Baby Lee is offline
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I dont know how we’ve gotten so far off course, but because I think you’re being honest, and against my better judgement, I’m going to acknowledge some of what you’re saying.

I believe you want an actual conversation, and that you really believe what you’re saying. And as proof of that, one of the few responses from this website that I remember is your response to me in the what are libs afraid of thread, related to global warming.

It was eloquent, thought out, and a reasonable position to take. Quite frankly, it might be the best retort to global warming I’ve ever heard (even if I don’t agree with it).

That being said, I don’t know how you sync the bolded statement with the first thing you responded to me with in this thread.

You didn’t attack the post, but the poster. You didn’t begin the conversation in good faith, you supposed a ton about me. You’re allowed to do that, but it feels a bit hollow for you to talk about discourse when you decided to engage in the very same bullshit you’re denouncing.
I laid out my reasons for the characterization of your post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
Speak for yourself. If there is a single aspect of political maneuvering that I hate more than any other, it's the theater aspect.

Of all people, the 'west coast liberals' the Sklar Brothers identified it on their podcast just a few months after the 2016 election. People have gone from advocating for their interests to 'soccer flopping,' pretending that every bit of friction or contact is grievously injurious.

There's more than plenty of fertile field all around all of us to advocate passionately about, but people are lazy, so rather than gather their thoughts and advocate with eloquence, they kneel for the anthem because the entire nation is illegitimate, or they call every provocation racist or bigoted, or they feign righteous outrage at negligible slights, or pretend all controversies suss out with pure good on one side and pure evil on the other.

As for facts and truth, you are dealing in perceptions and characterizations here, not empirical facts. Trump didn't 'repeated attack Gold Star families,' he responded strongly to a Gold Star father who openly and passionately criticized him in the course of a political campaign. And he didn't 'shit on the dead' by missing a couple of services. Until there comes contrary evidence, he relied on counsel and expertise of his security in inclement conditions.

But I get it, the support of military service and cops and firefighters, etc., bemuses and bedevils you, so you search for a chink in the armor of that support. But don't pretend it is anything but what it is, theater. Soccer flopping.
If you say that those countervailing perceptions and characterizations were unknown to you when you accused Trump of attacking Gold Star families and avoiding memorial services, I guess I can't argue. Or at least I don't have the energy to research the past to see if you've indicated otherwise before.

But your post does ring of someone more concerned with stating claims in inflammatory terms rather than accurately describing criticism.

I mean it's the snake eating its tail if you argue that anyone complaining about political theater is engaging in political theater. That simply forfeits the stage to theater. Endure it without complaint, or engage in it by pointing it out.
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:56 AM   #97
JakeLV JakeLV is offline
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I laid out my reasons for the characterization of your post



If you say that those countervailing perceptions and characterizations were unknown to you when you accused Trump of attacking Gold Star families and avoiding memorial services, I guess I can't argue. Or at least I don't have the energy to research the past to see if you've indicated otherwise before.

But your post does ring of someone more concerned with stating claims in inflammatory terms rather than accurately describing criticism.

I mean it's the snake eating its tail if you argue that anyone complaining about political theater is engaging in political theater. That simply forfeits the stage to theater. Endure it without complaint, or engage in it by pointing it out.
You laid out a straw man with literal single quotes around words I never used. You inferred my meaning based on your bias. How are you looking for honest conversation, if you’re attacking the poster, not asking questions about the intent, and being dishonest about the content of the post? You literally have made all of these suppositions based on 36 words. Even less, if you only count your initial response.

If that’s how you justify attacking the poster v post, that’s your prerogative, but don’t turn around and claim that honest discussion is what you’re after.

Last edited by JakeLV; 11-14-2018 at 01:03 AM..
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Old 11-14-2018, 09:41 AM   #98
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You laid out a straw man with literal single quotes around words I never used. You inferred my meaning based on your bias. How are you looking for honest conversation, if youíre attacking the poster, not asking questions about the intent, and being dishonest about the content of the post? You literally have made all of these suppositions based on 36 words. Even less, if you only count your initial response.

If thatís how you justify attacking the poster v post, thatís your prerogative, but donít turn around and claim that honest discussion is what youíre after.

Holy shit your post is hilariously ironic.

How is anyone supposed to have an honest debate with people who believe -

Trump called all Mexicans rapist!
Trump called all immigrants animals!
Trump attacked a Gold Star family!
Kavanagh allegations were credible!
Kavanagh committed perjury!
etc....

These are all lies but people like you keep repeating this horseshit as if its true. You are part of the problem and its not possible to have reasonable debate with your kind.
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Old 11-14-2018, 09:47 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Marcellus View Post
Holy shit your post is hilariously ironic.

How is anyone supposed to have an honest debate with people who believe -

Trump called all Mexicans rapist!
Trump called all immigrants animals!
Trump attacked a Gold Star family!
Kavanagh allegations were credible!
Kavanagh committed perjury!
etc....

These are all lies but people like you keep repeating this horseshit as if its true. You are part of the problem and its not possible to have reasonable debate with your kind.
You forgot "Trump Colluded with Russia to steal the 2016 election...

Every thing is "WOLF WOLF WOLF"...
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Old 11-14-2018, 02:00 PM   #100
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Old 11-14-2018, 02:28 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Marcellus View Post
Holy shit your post is hilariously ironic.

How is anyone supposed to have an honest debate with people who believe -

Trump called all Mexicans rapist!
Trump called all immigrants animals!
Trump attacked a Gold Star family!
Kavanagh allegations were credible!
Kavanagh committed perjury!
etc....

These are all lies but people like you keep repeating this horseshit as if its true. You are part of the problem and its not possible to have reasonable debate with your kind.
Other than an occasional post that's why I just stopped.
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